what dou you men think submission is? i see often that men think women have their hands tied down as far as " their place" but I am afraid men think that submission means overlording. women have a huge ministry available to them and i see allot of men cutting them short.
It depends on what man you are talking about. It certainly does NOT mean overlording it, as you put it or preventing women from growing as God leads.
Submission to your husband is not a male principle but a scriptural principle and it is based on the genesis of male and females - that man was made first and then women; that the woman was made for man, not man for the woman; that it was not the man that was deceived but the woman (Eve). All of this is clearly stated in scripture (1 Cor 11; Eph 5)
Having said that, the man's role is actually more difficult than submission. The man is called to lay down his life for his wife and to put her first. If a man does this correctly and out of deep love, he will not be harsh, impatient, overbearing, controlling, or domineering. He will love her as Christ loved the Church.
The role of women in ministry is a bit more difficult to resolve and there are different views but I personally believe it is ok for women to preach and have leadership roles. I say this because it is by the Holy Spirit that anyone has a right to speak in church - not because of one's gender.
In the world, the idea of submission resembles that in wrestling. For those whose love is for themselves, this idea of submission dominates their interaction with their leaders, their god (lower case g intentional), and those they feel are under them.
However, Peter offers great advice to the sexes. Women are to be humble (ie submissive) to their husbands. And men are not to lord it over others the way the pagans do.
Or taken from the context of the book of Leviticus. A man is the head of the house on earth as God is the head of creation and heaven. If a woman makes a vow before God, she's cursed if she breaks it. However, if on the day the man over her (her father if she's unmarried and her husband if she is) hears the vow and forbids her, there is no curse on either (as long the woman honors the man over her); but if the man delays and later forbids the vow, then the curse is on him.
In marriage, one cannot speak of the woman or the man as having different ministries. They are one flesh. If a man you're interested in sexually has a different set of values spiritually, though the grace of God is sufficient, that union will not be easy without the active pursuit of submission.
This is something my pastor and I were discussing just the other day. The womans role biblically is to show her husband respect this does not mean bow at his feet however. He does have the final say in matters and if the wife disagrees even though it may be hard, she should allow him to make a mistake now and then, and support him when he does.
The husbands role is to be the provider and protector. But his main role is to make his wife feel that she is the most important person ( other than God ) to him. He is to make sure that she feels loved beyond a shadow of a doubt. Which I must admit I failed at in my own marriage.
The two are one, a team, both working towards the same goals.
thanks for the answers. heres how i feel. i believe that the wife is to submit to her husband in that it means respesct him and not throw him under the perverbial bus... though i dont believe that if he is going to make a big mistake that she should just sit back and say nothing. she is not a mindless yes girl who should go along with anything. as far as ministry i believe that if God calls her to it she should do it. who is man that he should tell her not to do what God says she should. A Christ filled man would never do that anyway.
Praise the LORD JESUS CHIRIST and peace be unto you my sister. To answer your question,
First of all, I believe it's very dangerous for a woman to began to think she's being cut short by her husband as far as ministry is concerned. GOD is above all and if we seek HIM in prayer and trust GOD, no man can stop what HE has for us to do. If you began to view other relationships in that way, you can allow a seed of resentment into your heart which can spring up and cause trouble in your own walk and relationship, in my opinion.
I urge women not to fight against Submitting to your husband, for you'll be hurting your own relationship and setting a real bad example for others. Read the book of Esther and see how Esther became Queen in the first place. It came from a woman's disobedience to her husband.
This brings us to clarifying what it means to Submit. Let me start, by saying that in my personal relationship dealings with a woman, I'm, by GOD's Great Grace, very gentle, loving, meek, and kind. I don't believe in forced submission.
If I see that a woman has a problem submitting, then I may gently educate her, but leave it up to her to obey GOD in this area or not.
So Submitting to your husband actually means to Obey him.
Our ungodly society has caused many women to depise the phrase "obey your husband." But this is exactly what the WORD of GOD commands wives to do.
1Pe 3:6
Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.
To do otherwised is to actually blaspheme the Holy WORD of GOD.
Titus 2:5
To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.
Now some women will say that they will only submit to a man who has CHRIST as HIS HEAD. But if you are already married to a man who is an unbeliever, you are to submit to him as well, because in doing so, you can actually win him to CHRIST.
1Pe 3:1
Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
1Pe 3:2
While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.
1Pe 3:3
Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;
1Pe 3:4
But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
There is a beautiful and glorious power in submitting.
GOD'S Way is the Best way and those who Buck against GOD'S system hurt themselves and others.
No a man shouldn'tbe an evil ruler filled with pride and arrogance in his dealings with his wife, butrather loving and kind, compassionate and merciful. But don't wait on the husband to get his part right before you submit just as he shouldn't wait for you to submit before loving and cherishing you. Remember, you are obeying your husband as unto the LORD. You are in a way, looking pass him to the LORD. You are obeying your husband because of your love for CHRIST and your willingness to please GOD WHO has saved you from your sins.
Personally, a woman who is of a submissive spirit Stands Out from the Rest. She will always have the bonus points with me. Just think, the contrary to submit is to fight against.
Listen as a former U.S Marine (now non-violent) I understand the importance of obeying my leaders. An unsubmissive soldier can get himself and others killed or seriously hurt. We must remember that as Christians, we are in a spiritual warfare and the husband is the spiritual leader of his home. He don't have time for disobient followers (if he's the leader, yes that makes the restof the family followers). Not that he will divorce an unsubmissive wife, just her unsubmissiveness isn't helping him to reach his goal in leading his family in the ways of CHRIST. Now you are always to obey CHRIST first. So just as we obey our "boss" on the job, we should never lie, cheat, nor steal for them, because our loyalty is always to CHRIST first. So wives are to obey their own husbands as long as it's not sin. Don't disobey CHRIST in order to obey your husband. But if it's not sin, obey your husband and receive GOD'S blessings. Amen. Praise the LORD!
GREAT question and i enjoyed reading them mens views on this. I just wanted to point out that as I understand it it IS the mans role to be the head of the house and it is up to him to make the choices right or wrong. he SHOULD listen to his wifes POV but in the end it falls to him to do what he believes is best. A that point the wife is to accept and do all she can to help his plan. If things go bad with it we are NOT to say things like I told you so. That is morally wrong in my book and shows a great deal of disrespect for the man..
dear k ayn. yep obedient and respectful are both used in the bible.. you are sposed to let the man be the man..
as for ministry , i dont think ive ever said i dont id not be supportive of a woman doin a ministry .. except for bein the pastor of a church.. because for that GOD wouldnt be tellin someone to go against HIS own word.
loveandgrace, my brother, the last part of your post described my marriage to a t. It always felt like a battle instead of a team. I was not only never supported in doing ministry but was fought against it tooth and nail.
Ayn, if you are in a truly Godly relationship you will never have to worry about those things. If you are called into a ministry and your husband is a Godly man, he will support you 100%.
I would not ignore the point of husbands loving their wives as Christ loved the church.
as far as ministry goes, i think most you guys are missing a point Paul made in 1 Corith. 7.
It's best if you remain single for the ministry. I know it's odd to say on a dating site but both Jesus and Paul make this point. It's better not to get married at all. Because a married man is concerned with pleasing his wife. Same goes for a woman.
Getting married is a choice. It's better to choose not to get married if you can but most of us are probably burning with passion or we wouldn't be on here.
I would say for both guys and chicks. Find your ministry first, and follow God's calling in that area and if you find a mate, more power to you, if not, know that you made the right decision and your sacrifice for the Lord will be noticed.
As far as submission goes, i think the women have this dream of marrying the man of their dreams and having a husband that serves them but are unwilling to be under his authority. Even in regards to ministry, its the husband's decision. If you ladies don't like, DON"T GET MARRIED! Real simple.
im not saying a husband should ignore or hinder his wife in serving the Lord. But my point is if a woman want to follow the Lord one way or the other, she hands the final authority on those decisions to her husband when she gets married.
It's a very common theme problem among Christian women in general. The love the idea of the husband having to love them as Christ loved the church but a lot (not all) women (especially on some of these profiles) are not talking about finding a guy who will be the authority in her life or talking about a man who they want to obey. It is the essence of the Provb 31 woman.
