I am intelligent, intuitive and passionate I am also independent not because I chose it but because I have had to be. I am interesting, honest and easy to talk to and kinda funnySo my question is why do men prefer (I'll be nice ; ) a differ t kind of woman? Please notice I did not say I was controlling, demanding, critical or contriving. I am not and can get references if needed lol. I am just really confused by this because I know a lot of men and they say they want a woman with those positive qualities yet again and again I watch them chose something completely different. I have spent time with a few men and across the board it is your awesome (their words not mine) and yet they end up with women who are, how do I put this nicely... False, conniving self centered control freaks.
You seem good to me. Complicated women?? no. I would not put up with a controlling woman. Most women from my experience don't want a leader. natural sin of women maybe? compared to man's natural sin to look.. You listed traits I look for. If a woman wasn't too feminist, I think it would work well!
have you considered that there are other things at play like cultural programming ? a really good and bad example would be those that end up in abusive relationships time and time again...
what we want and what we get are sometimes, often, rarely (delete or add as necessary) what we expect, or should I say our expectation shapes our responses and what we project sets the narrative for others.
I did an experiment recently, I projected anger to gauge a response in my daughter, she took the bait and rattled off all the cultural norms, "I'm not speaking to you when you are angry" etc etc in a state of repressive anger !!!! I chuckled I played and I toyed with her like a cat with a ball of wool, it would be so easy to rattle off a bucket load of gender specific traits that are unlovely, it would be easy to challenge her and say hey you fell into the trap and here is what I was doing, but then I came to a conclusion whilst considering your post and comments, everyone needs to feel in control and how we do it is sometimes gender specific sometimes circumstance and sometimes a learned response, so maybe like the dog returning to it's sick we find comfort in knowing habitual pain and railing against it, clawing back what little semblance of control we think we have, and maybe breaking free of that pain is to know it's fullness and rejecting it's well worn path to misery, you shall know the truth and the truth CAN make you free, a choice born of repetition and understanding.
so I guess what we want and what we accept/allow ourselves to have has more to do with what our expectations of life are, it's not an easy thing to admit but we have a habit of shooting for the lofty heights but swimming in the gutter, really old people just screw up their faces and say "get lost !", a choice born of repetition and understanding, maybe we have a few lessons to learn, I know I do, now where's my swimming trunks ???
It's not good for man to be alone ? we all need to feel connected, loved wanted and appreciated, we will put up with pretty much anything for an 80/20 life, 80% bad with 20% pure joy, and on a bad day 90/10 will do just fine, even 95/5 will be ok....... some of us need that figure to be higher to cope with relationships and some of us would rather have an intense version interspersed with periods of solitude, most people just don't give it a second thought, the people that have the most difficulty with it are the intuitive deep thinkers, it just doesn't add up does it ? well we are in a minority and we can't make the rest of the world fit in our exquisitely constructed construct, intelligent people get frustrated when stupidity is the flavour of the day and for most people it's ok, you just have to accept what they want and accept is what they want and accept, no judgements no frustration, they are happy in what they choose.
There is a lot to be said in favour of ignorance, sometimes it can be bliss, sometimes it can help you shoulder a burden that could crush you if you understood it in all it's gory glory, we can learn something from it, blind faith and hope...yup and faith is...... yes that's right believing what we can't see, perhaps ignorance or settling for less could be said to be gracious acceptance of a fallen world and walking in mercy to the unlovely ? perhaps it's all and none ? whatever the answer is to your question I know one thing for sure, know one can understand the ways between a man and a woman Proverbs 30/18-19 but that doesn't stop us from shooting for the stars Proverbs 31 all of it not just the nice bits
I do realise my response will throw up a million questions and I am only qualified to answer for my own thoughts, if you have your own I would welcome enlightenment, or maybe not as the case may be... but come what may I do hope it provokes thought, if that is the case then shall we call it a victory ??
what is wrong with calling myself a feminist when the whole story of humanity called 'mankind'?
the world is not as it was 50/500 years ago... women are rising kids and running businesses, women are having careers and families, but they don't have rights and they being judged by churches for being strong, motivated, intelligent...
it just doesn't sound right. church is staying far behind in a past when it should grow, and not just in quantity but in quality as well
I think proverbs 31 would answer pretty much everything that you have questioned, God does have an order in which we are called to walk, God does expect us to walk according to his order, feminism percieves that man is the issue, God says sin is the issue, feminism rails against men in authority, God weeps over men who do not walk in his authority, God has warned us that in the last days his order, precepts and principles will replaced with the opposite, "they shall call good evil and evil good", feminism rebels against the world, tradition and percieved order, whether just or not, rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft.
So my question to you would be is the pain you feel your own or others ? is it justified ? are you being careful that you don't enter into rebellion and sin like Absolom ? are you walking in kindness and mercy to your percieved enemies ?
I have been a single parent and know from my own experience how society judges gender according to the role you are called to perform, the church let me down, my family let me down, feminists poured scorn on me, it was a pretty bitter experience, would I do it again, definitely ! it was my calling and I would be happy to go through the pain to fulfil my calling, like Deborah I was outside of what a traditional role would have called for, God is no respecter of persons, whether male or female He judges perfectly, he judged that I was perfect for my role !!! yay go God !!!
How do we stay pure ? hmm I'd start at examine my motivations, am I angry because, or do I take this or that attitude because ? God has a lot to say on gender and roles of men and women in society some of it is challenging and some of it will shock you as it might be not what you expect, I would encourage you to find your way on this path, but...... don't let anger or percieved injustice guide you it will only take you down, walk in mercy love charity an hope.... stay pure !
Don't give up, understanding is just one - question - away.....and Jesus said he's going to send the comforter to us that will guide us, the Spirit reveals the deep things of God.
Struggle I have often found is a sign of internal growth, without struggle we do not feel the need to question or grow, I percieve that your struggle is leading you to a place of Gods will, in your struggle don't sin, like anger it's what we do with it that counts
If my words have not helped or challenged you in a way that hopefully leads you to engage with the One who created you then I have one last thing to offer, Laughter, Laughter is the best medicine known to man and approved of God, it can be found in the most mundane of things and the most complex of situations, when we can laugh at ourselves and our situation we are well on the way to our destination, when I was really proud and arrogant I couldn't bear anybody making fun of me, now that I am only a little bit proud and arrogant I can laugh at pretty much any joke , humour or mickey taking aimed at me, when we stop taking ourselves seriously we start taking the nature of humanity seriously and that's what we are here for, not ourselves and "I", we are here for our neighbours our family and those whom God sends to us, so Laugh and be happy, because God has a job for you !
I wan't speaking about any pain I went through myself. I would appreciate if people who are reading my words weren't making up things.
What I was trying to say is people are using Bible to manipulate others. And I believe this is what you did, even though I believe you haven't done it on purpose and had a genuine intention to help.
There are lots of different commands in Old Testament, airnt there? And do you think it is right to keep one and break the other? I think if you are denying Christ's redemption and trying to keep the commands, as you were saying about Proverbs 31. You should also poop outside your church and carry a little shovel on your belt to bury those poops as the same Old Testament commands you to. It is only fair this way. And it is ridiculous in my opinion.
The society has changed. And you need to be wise and look at the context and look through a circumstances the specific Word were given to us.
Why Paul wrote that women should be silent in a church to Corinthians? Not because he was judging them by their gender but because according to the tradition women were suppose to sit in the end, separately from their husbands. And they simply couldn't hear what preachers were saying (there was no mics at that time). So they had to shout to their husbands to ask what the preacher said. Which were obviously creating lots of noise and it was difficult to preach. And how churches turned it around?
What I am saying is that isn't painful to think, to test what we have heard before we believe it. In the end of the days we will be responsible for what we said and how we treated each other.
I do warn you what you are about to read is very challenging....
hopefully you will rise to the challenge and be challenged.
Feminism and the church ???
I'm not sure it's mentioned in the bible... well it is but not in the way you would agree with and also in a way you would marvel at, does proverbs 31 look like a weak "help me help me" woman that is under a patriarchal nightmare ? NO.
You fail to mention a woman having authority over a man.....hmm.... if I were to mention several scriptures that are not in the Feminist world view would it be helpful ? would it build you up ? very doubtful.....hmmm...
OK a slightly different tack then.....
I AM ONLY 3-4 GENERATIONS AWAY FROM MY FOREFATHERS BEING SLAVES......
Slavery and it's effect still affects the black community, so some scripture has a tendency to grate against my world view, WELL IT WOULD WOULDN'T IT ! after all I'm only human, on rare occasions when I hear racist remarks I get angry, it's rare but I do, I'm not perfect and as much as I try to walk in grace love and humility I do get angry....hmmm... a pause for thought, I've not always been so wise, I had to get beaten up by others beaten up by myself until I came to the conclusion that the word was right, a soft and gentle word does turn aside wrath, not just wrath but also racism, not also racism but ageism, in fact every ism you can think of, I would expect by now there are several scriptures fighting for attention in your mind, let them speak and then read on.....hmm...
My daughter is particularly tough, I innoculated her with as much sexist banter as I could muster, yes daddy was a total misogynist on steroids and revelled in it, I also made sure that she was under no illusion as to what was expected of her, the best and gender is irrelevant and not an excuse that I will accept, God is like that he wants the best and won't accept less and if we don't...dust off get up get on....My Daughter ? oh she's studying to be an Engineer...the only girl on the course...tough girlie my daughter
you are probably fuming by now but if you take the last 2 paragraphs within the context of the question something will become very apparent, racism sexism, lets add to it.... I was a single parent....aaargh a Blokie bringing up a daughter as a single parent....waaah.... hold on that's culturally unacceptable......I know but that's what God had in mind for me...hard yes... frustrating....yes...women looking at me like I was either a hero or freak, the blokes thinking I was after their wives and what a freak......how frustrating !!!!! let alone all the other voices in society saying give her up for adoption....not this Saint no not this saint !
well in response to your question, everyone has there place in the world some places are cultural some are gender some are economic and some just are because they are through circumstance or whatever ! that's why the word says chill out and accept and do your best in the circumstance and situation that you are in and if by merit you happen to win over some one who is in opposition to you then you have won a friend, I could have taken the attitude early on that white people are bad, I had lots and lots and lots of reasons, even today I have as many reason as there are days, as racism is still apparent in the world, but that would be me walking in unforgiveness and also showing an unkind heart towards those who know no better, it's easy for me to see the injustice but it's also me being a HERO when I address those issues in love and when I win over a friend, I have to work against my base nature or instinct, society is like this, it programs both male and female to conform, to unconform with love is the highest measure of humanity, obviously I say this within the confines of God's word principle and precepts, so the parable of this lengthy tome is it's ok to be angry but what you do with it is what sets you apart, an overcomer ????
So Hero/Heroine or Villain/Villainess
PS I break lots of commandments but I have grace...good thing really....
Mary and Martha.....going against the grain......Deborah and Barak.....swapping roles ? the woman at the well....bringing transformation to a region, and she was a prostitute..... what was Jesus thinking ???
Look past the gender and look at the calling, we are called to be in the world not of it, as a christian your focus should be on what you are called to do, I say this not to hurt you but to encourage you to be the best that God has called you to be, God won't be judging you as a woman but as a child of God in whatever role or capacity you find yourself born into or called to...
I percieve that you want to be a Heroine, I would encourage you to enter into the battle you are in with courage and humility, only you can fight the battle you need to fight to learn the lessons that will shape you into the woman that God wants you to be, not every word of advice is applicable or helpful and the Holy Spririt will show you what you need to hear see or understand, be brave be strong be the best that God has called you to be, don't forget that God has mentioned in his word that a little wine for your stomach and laughter for medicine, be in balance.
A lot of men are usually intimidated by the qualities that you've mentioned of described above, apart from that a man's ego wants to see him married to a woman who would look up to him and make him feel like the man of authority that he wants to be.
With this being said you must change the classes of men you mingle or interact with, change the places you hang out and hang out in or around places where you'll find men who possess higher qualifications than you and self confidence and it wouldn't take long before you find a man who will appreciate your abilities.
the church must and should operate by its constitution which is the bible, anything outside the scriptures must not be done in anyway in the church.
The church must love what God loves and hate what God hates, even if the whole world is the loving it as long as God hates it that should be the stand of the church
It's easy to make an inference from a question if you're not specific or do not limit the parameters of your question to what you want answered. In any event, even if you were specific and did limit your question, people I suppose are more likely to answer for the sake of answering whether or not it answers the question as you intended.
Today in 2017 (as you say) it's a rather different environment than the Proverbs 31 role model for women several thousand years ago. Feminism can mean different things to different people. It generally means not subservient to men in any way, perhaps the opposite, confident women being head of the family, or in business (as you also say), but equality - which may be confused for feminism - generally means equality, in terms of treatment, employ payment, acceptance into society.
