That weman should be considered 'weaker vessels' compared to man?
OR
This was meant like that from creation?
How then can a weaker vessel help the stronger one... If you can help me understand this friends, i'll appreciate.
Everyone willing to share their thoughts and understanding of the above questions are welcome to do likewise, even ladies this is not only meant for 'guys', I'm posting here cause i'm after 3male friends whom I don't wish to miss their input.
1John310, Apostelle and One Sojourner.
Guys i've been reading your replies on asked questions here, believe it or not you're such a blessing to me. Your depth in understanding the word of God is really amazing. Unless you have nothing to offer on this, its ok dear ones. If you do, please don't keep to yourselves
Let us start with some commentaries from some who posses more wisdom and eloquence then I.
Barnes
It was their proper duty to render all honor to their wives, and to live with them as fellow-heirs of salvation, that their prayers might not be hindered.
Adam Clarke
Being more delicately, and consequently more slenderly constructed. Roughness and strength go hand in hand; so likewise do beauty and frailty. The female has what the man wants-beauty and delicacy. The male has what the female wants-courage and strength. The one is as good as the other: and by these things God has created equality between man and woman, so that there is properly very little superiority on either side.
John Wesley
Knowing that they are weak, and therefore to be used with all tenderness. Yet do not despise them for this, but give them honor-Both in heart, in word, and in action; as those who are called to be joint heirs of that eternal life and which ye and they hope to receive by the grace of God.
The feminism of today tells us that women are superior to men and are therefore to be more like men. Men are inferior to women and are therefore to be more like women.
Scripture tells us that men and women were created together in the image of God. Each, the true feminine and the true masculine work in harmony to reflect the full image of God to the world. This is one of the reasons that marriage is so important to God. Further the evil one hates that a wife should submit to her husband because in submitting to her husband the wife reflects for all to see the submission of Jesus to the Father by going to the cross.
When we read the commentaries of old we need to remember that the words that they used meant different things to them in their time then the same words do now. Society and in particular political interests have hijacked certain words to promote their causes. Before we take offence at what they said we need to make an effort to understand them and their time. Just as we need to do the same thing with scripture.
Some of my understanding
I heard once of how the speaker had attended a feminists conference. He listened to all the teachings of how men were inferior and women could do everything better then men. At the end of the conference he approached her and asked: if she spoke at a conference in a high crime area of a large city: would she feel safer walking to her car while accompanied by an average woman or an average man? She replied the man.
Sister, and Ladies, I readily admit that we men (generally speaking, Don't get your undies all bunched up guys) have failed to protect you and treat you with the honor that you deserve as co-heirs in Christ. But there is strength in being feminine. There are women bigger and stronger then me, I concede. But in the natural order of things, any good man would give his life to protect any woman. Not because she is weaker in a bad way but because she is weaker in the way that a delicate piece of art is weak. As such, she should be treasured and held with respect and honor.
There it is Sissy. Now let the critics words fly. r
Oh by the way... "Package of sin". I don't know where that comes from. Sounds like a misogynists words of fear. Sadly I have heard some teachers promote such thinking of Eve and her daughters. Such a person should be gently corrected and failing repentance on their part, removed from their position and or never listened to again. r
Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered. 1Pet 3:7
Sisy, the most obvious sense of these words "weaker vessel" would be that of physical strength. We certainly can draw this conclusion and it would fit well with our understanding. A husband is generally much bigger and stronger physically than his wife. As such, he should recognize that fact and not use his size and strength to intimidate or mistreat his wife. He should recognize that his wife is "inferior" in this way and treat her gently and not forcibly.
However, I would like to offer you what I believe is a more accurate understanding of what this particular passage of Scripture is teaching us. Let's look at some additional verses that come immediately before this one.
" LIKEWISE, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives; While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear. Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price. For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands: Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement. " 1 Peter 3:1-6
What are these verses adding to our understanding of Vs. 7? They are showing us that the wives are to be in subjection to their husbands -- they are to be obedient to their husbands.
So Sisy, we can definitely conclude from this context that Peter is probably speaking specifically to the fact that women are the "weaker vessel" as it relates to authority in the marriage relationship. Wives are under the "headship" of the husband. Therefore, Peter is telling husbands to remember that since the wives are required to be in humble obedience to you, you must honor her for her submission. What does honor mean here? It means to value or esteem her worthy in the highest degree. And to answer you question sister, this submission is a result of the sin in the garden. ( Gen. 3:16)
Let's look at one additional passage. This will help us gain even more understanding.
Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble (**weaker) , are necessary: And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness. 1 Cor 12:22-23 (Please read 1 Cor 12:12-26)
This teaches us that all parts of a body are necessary parts. The "weaker" parts are necessary. We are not to overlook them or treat them with less honor. Why? Because to dishonor the "weaker parts" is to dishonor the whole body. How does this relate back to what Peter is teaching?
If a husband does not honor his wife as the "weaker vessel", he is bringing dishonor or shame to himself as a result. If he mistreats "his body", he ("the head") will also suffer. I believe the second part of 1 Peter 3:7 "and as being heirs together of the grace of life" is what is showing the relationship between this passage in Peter and this passage in 1 Cor. 12. In other words, the husband and the wife are tied together in two ways: 1) they are one with the husband being the head and the wife his body. 2) they are both members of the same body with Christ as the head.
I hope this helps you understand and does not bring you any confusion.
"How then can a weaker vessel help the stronger one... "
The wife usually cooks and shops for the husband. She provides encouragement and comfort to the husband. She's a friend and confidant, listening to him as he talks about the challenges of the day and plans the future.
She prays for him, his success, his health, his needs and wants.
God also gifts men and women differently...the woman may have more knowledge or talent on things than the man....she may be better at managing finances, investing, electronics, etc...she can take on repsonsibility for keeping the bank accounts, paying bills, etc. She may have learned some skills that he never had interest or opportunity...such as car maintenance, computer systems, home repairs, etc.
I know some husband and wife teams that have come to agreement that he cooks and she mows the yard because they enjoy those activities.
Your reply is very diversed. Its almost as if you can read my mind. My first question within myself as reading Geneses1-3 was "Why did God first created marriage when coming to existence of Adam and Eve?" I found my answer from your reply when saying, "The devil hates that the wife should submit to her husband fore by her submitting that reflects to all of us what Christ did to the father when Submitting till the cross." This means that God was intending (correct me if i'm wrong please) to communicate He's expectations from mankind, which is submission.
What I further found in your answer is importance of Eve's existence not only with fruits of her womb... But rather as guidance to Adam the leader of the family, it was only through Eve was he gonna master submission to God. Eve would have served as a 'teacher' (had she played her card right) to Adam how must he then submit himself to God after he has learned from her as submitting to him. I now get a little understanding of what God meant when saying, "It is not good for a man to be alone." He knew that submission would have been a struggle for Adam without being touch since he, himself was ordained a leader. This explains why the 2nd Adam (Christ) came and tought us about the parable of the Wedding Feast, so we get it in our minds how relevent is marriage to our relationship with God. I won't dwell too much into what you've unfolded in my spirit fore i'm gonna deviate altogether from the main subject. Though I wanna thank you dear I needed this clarity and you came through with an answer.
As if the above mentioned was not enough, you decided to reach out to my innermost soft spot... Disfunctions in the body of Christ. Such subjects were my hunger for discussion in my early days here. For the change I wanted adults to discuss real issues that hinder the flow of the Holly Spirit in the churches. Thank you again for bringing the subject forth.... See now what I meant by your reply being broad? The question of you guys failing us 'ladies' when coming to protection as we're weaker vessels who should be treated with honer and respect just as you said on your reply.
Indeed the evil one must be having such pleasure in these disfunctions taking place in families, fore such energies from homes are manifested in the church too. I'm in the top of the list to confess that my hunger for success is driven by emotions of unresolved issues from my past. I wanna make it sooooooooo badly by myself (through God's strength ofcause) that I don't wanna leave a room for a need of a man. Fore the last time I was surrounded by man I was terribly abused, now this I do not desire for my kids, but now how guaranteed am I that my kids won't go through when another young man has been raised from an environment similar to mine? Does he know how to treat a woman better seeing he's father treating the mother like trash? This issue John its in my heart beat cause its far deeper than it may ever seem on the surface, it needs deliverance from Christ's trinity.
How does the ladies success affect you guys? It affects in a bad way that we're not even approachable. A man's presence is not felt in a relationship cause now what can he possibly do for a lady that she's not doing for herself? Now guys are then driven by an emotion of 'bitterness' towards ladies (again these are not general statements)
Its all good when a woman does well, which most are. Does it glorify God through? Does He delight in independency when He's word in Romans says "We are members of one body therefore we need one another" how possible is this when she's for herself and her businesses, while he too he's for himself with he's insecurities from a lack of feeling needed when availing him self to ladies?
I'm sorry I got carried away for a while as I pondered on your reply. One more thing just before I close... I really wanna appreciate you for making me feel normal. When saying, "Males have what females need-strength and courage" you've confirmed that i'm normal after all and very possible when friends miss what I mean in my 'no-negotiable' requirement in seeking a man of a strong character. There's a charm I can't put to words in a secure man. What I love most about these very rare kinds is the ability of stretching the woman beyond her limits in all areas of her being, bringing out the expression of the inner beauty hidden deep inside her instead of being intimidated by manifestations of her strength that should have benefited you if you kept around. She's gonna run home to you after all at the end of the day.
Thank you John
There was a lot to take from your mind field reply!! God bless
You're certainly right dear about these ever changing society and political philosophies that are not in-line with God's word. As men are being disarmed by being made inferior, and ladies tought how well we can do on our own without you guys.... How will you then bother to protect a lady when you've been made aware how less needed you are.... If needed at all.
Clear and simplified in the easiest way to be understood.
Wow, thank you very very much.
Its amazing I missed my answer right there on the spot, "And the Lord God said to the woman, 'What is this you have done? 16.... Your desire shall be for your husband, And he shall rule over you." And not very long Ruth puts to practice of what the Lord said about woman desiring her husband and him ruling over her. Verse8 in the book of Ruth, "Then Boaz said to Ruth, 'You will listen, my daughter, will you not?' 10 So she fell on her face, bowed down to the ground, and said to him...' With more verses in this very passage that prove the practical side of this curse through Ruth submitting to Boaz before their relationship was even official.
"Even as Sarah obeyed Abraham calling him.. lord" same goes with Ruth calling Boaz lord in verse13 "Then she said, "Let me find favor in your sight, my lord"
Will have to make time and read through the book of Corinth, for more understanding on this. Was led to the book of Ruth and found relevant practical answers of this curse. Suppose God's word complements it self.
You were very helpful dear in the easiest way to be understood.
God bless for availling yourself as a useful vessel of help when I needed one.. Thank you!
I think that before sin, men and women were a lot closer in physical vitality. God did set up the gender roles before the fall, with Adam as the "leader" and Eve as the "companion", but it's only AFTER sin that the gender roles took on a more pronounced difference, with men becoming "rulers" and women becoming "weaker".
"In sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."
To me, that implies that child birth wasn't painful or sorrowful before the fall, or at least not like it is now, and that the husband's role was more like the role of an elder in the church before the fall, one that had authority, but not a "commander in chief".
"The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed: Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind; Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being examples to the flock. And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away."
The elders were supposed to be picked from men who "ruled" their households well, and this is how they were supposed to "rule" the church. They were supposed to be shepherds that lead by example, not dictators that demand submission.
It is interesting that you bring the up verse "In sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband; and he shall rule over thee.".
Several of my bibles have a footnote and one translation states "and thy desire shall be to rule over him". I have heard learned Hebrew scholars say that this is the meaning of that part of the passage. Adam and Eve sinned by listening to the serpent and eating the fruit so that they "would be like God". After the fall and the curse our desires have not changed the woman desires to be the god of man and man desires to be the god of woman.
Sissy you did well to understand my vagueness. From my experience the true femininity displayed by a woman who is secure in God and therefore herself, brings out the true masculinity of myself. In that God given masculinity I am actually more tender and caring. It is to my regret and conviction that I do not display those attributes regularly. I believe that a man who is not operating in a God given masculinity (as opposed to the hyper machismo of the world) is effectually weaker then a woman operating in her God given, true femininity. That is when you see men compensating for their weakness by abusing those in their lives who should be cherished.
I still would like to know what the deal is with the whole "package of sin" thing. r
Looking at your reply i'm amazed that i've never really considered those as "helping him" in my mind they were home duties to be done. Then ladies are even more helpful than we can ever think, cause looking at those daily activities... They consume time and effort with reality of our every day life in the coperate world and deadlines to meet and still be a wife and mother to your kids. Being honest I don't know how do ladies keep balance of all these, yet they do hey.
When I was still staying home, i'd hear my mother (step mom) praying for her family in early hours of the morning. She has to report for work, preper food for during the day for my father and clothes for him (you'll be amazed at what he wears if my mother didn't preper for him.) Will still enjoy a fresh cooked meal after a long working day. I don't know how she managed to do all those with 'night shift' (the ministry in bed) awaiting her
:goofball:
I recall asking if marriage is a ministry for certain individuals? I personally don't think I can keep up with all this unless I find a helper with other duties, so I can only consantrate on him with undevided attention.
