Friend I first need to apologize for interfering with mans' topics. It has been obvious that i'm interested in your openions, likewise with questions that you have to ask, I always find myself having something to say
Weither be i'm wrong or right in my replies, when sharing your view on the posted question,
I know i'll have something to take with...
I'll post my view in a different forum so I don't interfere with what guys have to say, since the question was not meant for ladies (hope you don't mind me writing back on your recent question)
Is divorce of Christ or Anti-christ?
In my little mind divorce is surely of anti-christ.
As always I may qoate passages that may seem erelevent, hope it will all come together to the point i'm trying to raise.
In Genesis when God created man He said "LET US make man in our own image" (please bear in mind that He was in unity with someone)
In Genesis 11 (the passage about those who built a tower to heaven) in verse 1, "Now the whole earth had one language and one speech. 3, They said to one onother "come let us make bricks and bake them thoroughly" 4, Come let us build ourselves a city, and a tower whose top is in heavens...." 5, But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower which the sons of men had built. 6, And the Lord said "Indeed the people are one and they all have one language, and this is what they begin to do, now nothing that they propose to do will be withheld from them."
One last more to qoate
Ecclesiastes 4: 9 (the passage about the value of a friend)
Verse 1, "Two are better than one.... 10, For if they fall, one will lift up his companion.... 11,...Again if two lie down together, they will keep warm,.... 12, Though one may be overpowered by another, two can withstand him.
If anyone knows better about the power of unity, its the devil himself. For this very reason he was cast down with the multitude of angels which are demons today. Hense he does anything & everything to cause divorce in families. he knows that when devided, we won't be able to stand against him.
Hebrews 3:13 (passage about the power of unity)
....but exhort/encourage one another daily, while it is called today, lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin."
When devided our sinfull hearts are our worst threat, for deceiption easly takes place, unlike if there was this other part with a sober mind to help the other part.
And again there's no church without family. We are parts of Christ' body through families.
Having said "there's no church without families" on my above post,
Meant to ask you this:
Is marriege a ministry that only certain individuals are meant to persue, OR its a personal choice that any other person that desires can persue also?
If only I could recall where this passage is from the bible. There's a lady whom God has called to persue a certain ministry only to find that she has other interests & plans about her personal life, which were not what God rather had in store for her. She & God argued for a while until they came to an agreement.
Since she wanted to be married, the agreement was that:
She was gonna be granted her heart's desire for 7years atleast, then after 7years she'll have to submit to God's calling. Indeed that was the case. She got married & 7years later her husband passed on. She then served God wholeheartedly cause He also fullfilled her hearts' desire.
What is your view on this dear?
Is marriege a calling or a personal choice that one has to live according to God's expectations weither called for it or not....?
18And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
21And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; 22And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. 23And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. 24Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. 25And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
[ One reason is that we are alone and we need another for support. In this passage is such richness of relationship from the beginnnig. I love how they were unashamed before oneanother. How does this happen? It only happens when we look at another with unconditional love. <3 Leaving and cleaving makes a man responsible. They now become their own agents in the wolrd and not dependent upon the Father anymore. Think about it? God new that they would have to leave Him and they did. They tried it on their own for the first time and blew it big time didn't they.
Its funny. I never saw this before that God would say that man would leave Father and mother. He is their Father, right? I have found that in our falleness and sin especially against eachother and as we find love and forgiveness in relationship this is a bond. This is the cleaving of our selves as male and female. Then when we become one flesh together it must be out of this world. Because we are engaged in all of our senses.]
1 Corinthians 7
1Now concerning the things of which you wrote to me:
It is good for a man not to touch a woman. [ well how about that? This is not what the world tells us , right?]
2Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband. [ I find this reason less likely to survive a lasting relationship. Why? because this relationship is founded on the flesh and when a individual is tempted and gives into flesh why would they not be tempted by another? The trust issue or lack of trust is very strong in this reason. but God gives a help to those who are not able to controll their selves. I find that the sweet taste of pleasure is greatest when it is forbidden, isnt it? So after marriage the thrill of the flesh fades away and what is left? So God tells husbands and wives and reminds them who's they are. Who does the husnband belong and who does the wife belong?]
3Let the husband render to his wife the affection due her, and likewise also the wife to her husband. ,,,,,4The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. And likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does.,,,,,,, 5Do not deprive one another except,,,,, with consent,,,,, for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. ,,,,,,,,,6But I say this as a concession, not as a commandment.,,,,,[ Why, bcause Paul knows what is best and why would anyone want less than their best?]
7For I wish that all men were even as I myself. But each one has his own gift from God, one in this manner and another in that.
8But I say to the unmarried and to the widows: It is good for them if they remain even as I am; 9but if they cannot exercise self-control, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
10Now to the married I command, yet not I,,,,,, but the Lord:,,,,,,, A wife is not to depart from her husband. 11But even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband.
[ If Jesus is Lord why then is this command being violated so much in the Church?] And a husband is not to divorce his wife.[ like wise]
12But to the rest I, not the Lord, say: If any brother has a wife who does not believe, and she is willing to live with him, let him ,,,,,,not divorce her.,,,,,, 13And a woman who has a husband who does not believe, if he is willing to live with her, let ,,,,,,,her not divorce him.,,,,,,,, 14For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy. 15But if the unbeliever departs, let him depart; a brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases.
[ this is a passage that is taken out of context so much in the anti-christ mentallity of the church. because what it is saying only that one is not required to hold onto a spouse it gives no permission to remarry. In fact the previous command tells us what we are to do, right? The reson is what comes next is that God has called us to peace and with a individual who is unwilling to live peacefully with us God give us the freedom to let them live out side of the peace because they are a disrupter of peace.]
But God has called us to peace. 16For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife?
[ Exactly, doesnt this speak of faith? Where is the faith in marriages today in the church? I dont see it. Does anyone really know God if they are unable or unwilling to walk by faith in the greatest challenge life brings with the individual of their own choosing? Its insanity]
17But as God has distributed to each one, as the Lord has called each one, so let him walk. And so I ordain in all the churches. 18Was anyone called while circumcised? Let him not become uncircumcised. Was anyone called while uncircumcised? Let him not be circumcised. 19Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters. 20Let each one remain in the same calling in which he was called. 21Were you called while a slave? Do not be concerned about it; but if you can be made free, rather use it. 22For he who is called in the Lord while a slave is the Lord�s freedman. Likewise he who is called while free is Christ�s slave. 23You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men. 24Brethren, let each one remain with God in that state in which he was called.[ Amen]
25Now concerning virgins: I have no commandment from the Lord; yet I give judgment as one whom the Lord in His mercy has made trustworthy. 26I suppose therefore that this is good because of the present distress�that it is good for a man to remain as he is: 27Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be loosed. Are you loosed from a wife? Do not seek a wife. 28But even if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. Nevertheless such will have trouble in the flesh, but I would spare you.
[ The only place is here when it is written who can marry without sin. A husband loosed from a wife a virgin or unmarried and a widdow. No where here does it say that a divorced woman can remarry. In fact the previous command tells a woman who is married what her choices are, right?]
29But this I say, brethren, the time is short, so that from now on even those who have wives should be as though they had none, 30those who weep as though they did not weep, those who rejoice as though they did not rejoice, those who buy as though they did not possess, 31and those who use this world as not misusing it. For the form of this world is passing away.
32But I want you to be without care. He who is unmarried cares for the things of the Lord�how he may please the Lord. 33But he who is married cares about the things of the world�how he may please his wife. 34There is a difference between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman cares about the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit. But she who is married cares about the things of the world�how she may please her husband. 35And this I say for your own profit, not that I may put a leash on you, but for what is proper, and that you may serve the Lord without distraction.
[ we are given freedom in choosing for our selves whom we will serve. Service to another in marriage especially in this world we live I believe is and should be an example to unbelievers of who Christ is. We need more solid relationships in marriage to be the light of the world but sadly we are lacking. You see if we slow it down and find someone where we can prove out a relationship together in harmony then we can say that we are ment together. If not then that will be a telling clue that one is not ready for the riggors of marriage.]
36But if any man thinks he is behaving improperly toward his virgin, if she is past the flower of youth, and thus it must be, let him do what he wishes. He does not sin; let them marry. 37Nevertheless he who stands steadfast in his heart, having no necessity, but has power over his own will, and has so determined in his heart that he will keep his �virgin, does well. 38So then he who gives �her in marriage does well, but he who does not give her in marriage does better.
39A wife is bound by law as long as her husband lives; but if her husband dies, she is at liberty to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord. 40But she is happier if she remains as she is, according to my judgment�and I think I also have the Spirit of God.
[ I have to get going to work but I will write more latter in what i see and believe according to Gods word to answer your question. But I fail to believe that any individual truly knows and loves Jesus when they so blaintly dissregard these passages according to marriage and live in rebellion towards Gods principles. It is a very rejection of the one who has given such love to them, right? Divorce in not only the rejection of a man or woman but rejecting of God and His son Jesus.]
I know I havent said much for the reason for marriage yet but they will come. You see the scripture and you are an intelligent young woman and quite capable to understand also. :)
Oh goodness.... That was a lot to take in referring to the depth of revelations God has gaven you concerning this passage. May He never ever cease to unvail such knowledge & insight to you. I really need to admit this friend. I recall telling you that you are the very reason that I registered with this site. So I can challenge, argue in a healthy manner, agree, disagree, learn etc
I'm talking back one word from the above mentioned list, that is "DISAGREE"
I don't think I'll ever deer disagree with you, I'd rather kindly ask you to explain further if I don't understand. Such knowledge is overwhelming to comprehend with at times, its takes me to read through over & over before I can atleast get to the core of what I think you mean. It shows clearly that you draw from the main source of wisdom which is the Holy Spirit.
Allow me please to bless you dear once more. Don't know yet if its a child's place to bless a father, its usually the other way around, if not suppose i'll just have to brake the rule cause you really are worthy of this blessing.
May God grant you guys the desired lifestyle & the son that you deserve to have.... Yes dear you deserve this son. May your marriege bring such joy & fulfilment to you two...
Not to mention the very Glory & honor to the most high God through your life.
Must warn you though,
You're such a threat in the kingdom of darkness. Your marriege will be highly tested so the enemy may delight to show off your errors & faults, BUT we need not to worry about that now, Don't we? I know that your partner (a very beautiful lady indeed, saw her photos when sending you an inbox massage) is just as strong if not even more, since she's the helper. Therefore this marriege will work out just fine being hedden under Jesus' arms.
You two deserve one onother in an amazing way.
I fully support you guys.
(Moving forth with the main subject)
Yes dear you haven't answered my question. I'm glad though that you've brought this subject again.... The subject that I once asked you about a while ago. About marriege being based on sex. I feel a lot was left un-talked about, though I was contact at that time with your reply.
Friend we talking about sensitive stuff hey....?
I appreciation how open you've been about your personal experiences. You've made it simple for me to ask or talk about issues that I wouldn't have in a international website. With you what i've picked up, is that nothing is too shameful to be spoken about. You're very open & you don't judge.
"You are an intelligent young woman....."
You always see the good in me & bring it to my attention. Thank you so much for this.
If only one person sees good in me,,,,, then i'm satisfied. Can you believe that I grew up being of the low self esteem? (i'm not saying this as a self pity statement)
Was told over & over that I was stupid. Was never gonna make it in life. Those words were registered in my system at a very young age. Its only now i'm working on loving & believing in my self. Not what I was told that I am.
Well meant complements really mean so much to me.
I'll be waiting patiently for your further post on the question that I asked you. Much appreciation for what you've gaven me so far...
Helper companion. In all we think and do concerning marriage we have to filter our decisions and thoughts through this door of having or being a helper companion.
Scripture tells us that two are stronger than one. In our leadership/ helper roles as man and woman we find purpose and satisfaction in this activity of communicating.
If our communication is honest , understanding and unreactive .
When we choose this life of Leader/Helper we are positioning our selves in both positions of strength and vaulnerability. For in the prrpose of helper companion we have oppertunity to make up in another life something that is lacking.
We tend to go into marriage with the though in the back of our minds that were going to change the other. This is deadly to a relationship. If we enter relationship humbly knowing our strengths and weakness then we can build eachother up through our strengths and receive help in our weakness as well.
Helper companion purpose is to ballence our lives out. We al are unballenced due to sin in the world. Just the other day I had to help my feincee refocus her mind in her image of self.
The greatest help we can offer and receive is in the help of our hearts and minds focus. Who we are flows out of our hearts and minds wich determins our motives.
I had to lovingly remind Lalnei that she was not seeing her self in the same way that God sees her. That she needed to repent and ask God help everytime the lie of the enemy comes to mind causing her to feel devalued.
She two is a help to me as I submit my thoughts to her and she has had oppertunity to change my mind though her gentle spirit.
You see when the scripture tells wives to submit to their husbands it is not action but thought that is to be submited. When a woman submits her thoughts to her husband she will either be fulfilling her role as helper to her husband or it gives that man oppertunity to fulfill his role to love his wife.
It makes so much sense yet it is opposed by others. When our submission is not focused on action but thought then the genuineness or lack of comes to surface. It is not in our actions that fruit is cultivated but in our thought process.
We become more christ like as our minds are renewed and beging to think as He does. The ability to fulfill living out His commands are not burdomsome He tells us. When we have a mind of Christ we then can fulfill the command to Love God and our neighbor.
Communication builds intimacy with God and His people. I have begun to understand the triunity of God as three persons in agreement as one God. It is in the intimacy and agreement in how they percieve their creation. Father Son and Spirit communicate amongst eachother and their minds, motives and actions are in total agreement.
When we begin to learn how to agree with God we find also the oneness with Him and His Children.
The role's of companion/ helper are crude models of Christ and His bride. It is these roles that truly reflect the nature of a loving God. Or should reflect :)
We as people are self concious about our bodies in some way. Prior to the fall in the garden modesty did not exist because their was no need for modesty.
Were Adam and Eves bodies veiled in the glory of God and this is why they were able to be naked and unashamed? I think probally so.
When the fall happened and the glory dissipated instantly. They seem oneanother in flesh alone. They lost the ability or privilage to see oneanother in the glory of God. So they became afraid and ashamed of their bodies.
They went and hid. Their hiding created division from oneanother and God.
Their is something in the area of physicality that is significant that i have yet to understand fully. Why else would the world place such focus on it?
Do we not as people place some level of self image on our physical frames?
Being in a marriage and having the ability to love and accept another in their flaws truthfully have to be a powerful thing. To be naked and unashamed.
I think this is why sexual relationships are so prevelant because we want to find acceptance and we believe if a individual finds us acceptable in our flesh somehow we are acceptable.
A man might find a woman to be the most beautiful woman. A 10 by anyones standards. But she might view her self as ugly because of the shape of her nose or ears. Maybe she thinks her breas,,ts are too small or two large. Maybe she thinks the thighs are to large or that she is to skinny. The list could go on and on right?
My point is this man doesnt know how this woman sees her self. So when she makes comments about her immage he dismisses her and tells her she is wrong. This is a rejection to her and not showing her love. He thinks he is doing right by her.
But inside she is hurting more because the man she has opened her self up to even in a small way has just shut her down. Because he hasent tried to understand her but rather dismissed her feelings that are very strong and real to her.
Their is also the opposite where in the physical one might be to full of self and they see their selves as great and awsome. The pride of this is only to be avoided. Avoid one who thinks their selves this way.
Where as Adam and Eve were called to leave Father God and cleave to eachother we are called to leave earthly parents and cleave to eachother.
Where children and especially a baby has complete dependence uopn their parents and rightly so. Adults need to be independent of parents. Not saying we should dissreguard our parents unless they are wicked. But that is a different subject alltogether.
I believe parents if they do their jobs righteously then they begin to prepare their children from early on to be self suficient but as christian parents we are to teach our children how to be God dependent also.
Our world needs strong independent men and women and sepecially strong God dependent men and women.
The act of a man and woman leaving and cleaving causes the reality of replication. The replication of strong family units is what a strong society is built upon. Go figure that God knew this......haha
You see now in the act of replication society is also a benificiary of strong Godly relationships.
The common theme through all this is that we are the gospel. The good news to oneanother and to the world around us. Sadly we are failing in being the gospel because some or most have this mind of only being a sinner saved by faith.
They remain in their sin due to this attitude and never find repentence through genuine brokeness and hatred of their own sin. If we are only sinners saved by faith then it is sad. Because were so much more in being Children of God.
2Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband.
Our sexual immorality comes out of deeper needs that need to be met. When we dismiss these needs and live only in our flesh what pittiful people we are. Even in our pitiful state God makes provision for them.
The way I see the instructions from Paul to the husband and wife telling them how to give their selves is like telling children how to play together with a toy.
When we see youngsters engaged in public displays of agressive affection isnt it pittiful to see? It is inmature..
When we see couples, mature couples look at oneanother and spend time together we see something that is developed and cultivated.
The reason for marriage in a fleshly relationship has little hope of sucess unless the couple repents together and learns how to mature and develop a deeper connection. This is possible with time but more than likely the reason for the marriage in the first place will become the reason for the degeneration and divorce of it.
It is the lack of self controll which is a attribute of the Spirit. Self controll that is.
Flesh leads to death but the Spirit leads to life. I too began my first marriage in the flesh and she is still fulfilling her fleshly lusts with others. She has not learned intimacy where as I have. So sad for her.
Dear sister, I want to thank you and tell you what a blessing you are to me. Your questions are a great help to me in getting me thinking and discovering more information to communicate in the book I am writing.
Have no idea how glad am I that you're bringing these matters forth on your recent replies. You've just confirmed something i've been missing everytime reading through this passage in 1 Corinth from chapter 6-7. I really argued this passage in my little mind when having a self conversation in my inner most being. As little as I knew about marriege, I still doubted a marriege relationship based on the fulfilment of the desires of the flash. I somehow thought that... This relationship has nothing further to look forth to, after these two parties have reached their cli....max.
One thing i'm continuously picking up when reading this passage, (you're welcomed please to help me out if i'm wrong in sencing this) its' a firm tone from the apostle Paul when addressing this issue to the church. He sounds very dissapointed that he's fellows are too worried about fulfilling their desires of the flesh, while he's going through so much spiritually suffering for salvation.
I note this in verse5, "Do not deprive one another..."
He sounds more like "I'm now permitting you to officially persue what you hunger for most, now I don't want stories from one part complaining that he/she's not satisfied, see to it that you satisfy each other now that you're welcomed to have sex."
Really can't help it but to sence a very firm tone. I often wonder if am I the only one picking this up.
I knew somehow that there must be more to marriege than sex, maybe I didn't express well on my previous question first time when I asked you about this passage.
And YES dear friend you've actually answered me on your very first r eply before these recent ones. I'm only picking this up as I refreshed my mind by reading your first reply, reconnecting so I can continue with your recent posts. As reading with a more vigilant mind than the first time reading just after you've posted, i'm noting an answer to my question "Is marriege a ministry that only few individuals are called for, OR its a personal choice that any ather person who desires can persue, coperating with God's instructions though wiether called for it or not"
By so saying I don't mean that you shouldn't share your incide about this anymore, I need you to open up & share as much as possible. If I should share what i've noted as an answer to my question (maybe it will change when you keep posting your views) but for now I think marriege is a ministry indeed & not everyone is called for it. (focuded on your very first post) i'll be reading over & over on your recent posts. Don't think i've rad enough.
My reasons of supporting my current discovered (indirect answer) is when you said "We are given a freedom in choosing for our selves whom will serve. Services to another in marriage especially in this world we live I believe is and should be an example to unbelievers of who Christ is. We need more solid relationships' in marrieges to be the light of the world but sadly we are lacking."
Your statement dear took me to a passage of Genesis 29:18 "Now Jacob loved Rachel; so he said, "I will serve you seven years for Rachel your younger daughter" its not only service to our selves (when rendering to one another) But also services for each ather. Jesus is a perfect example of this one. After He has done it all for He's disciples' & our sake, He still washed their feet. He did both direct & indirect services to earn the church.
This is so fruitful friend. If I had a partner I would have convinced him to partake in our chatt, would have served a better purpose if both parties were to get the same teachings about marriege. We would have both understood you in different ways & have something to share about in our private conversations concering this matter, which i'm certainly glad I don't have, with no interntions of recruiting one right one, especially in this side (i've opened up about very sensitive stuff of my background, which I also don't regret) I'd rather have him persuing & discovering me without me saying much.
And again there's so much I need to go through in turning this victim into a woman I believe God desires her to be, not what the past has molded her to be.
All the best on your book dear, will you be sanding some this side? (South Africa) i'd really love to have one.
Apologies once more for spelling errors, Englisg is not my language, i'm only trying to express in English.
