It is so hard to just sit idle while you spout misinformation. I had planned to do this privately and I still think that we should because you seem to enjoy the attention.
To begin with The Catholic Church does not need to Interpret Sacred Scripture. She was there when Scripture was written. The Writers of Scripture were there and they were the Ones that Taught those that went on to teach others. She was there when Christ Himself explained everything to His Church and Commanded His Church to � Go to the Ends of the world and TEACH��.
Chuck, most of what was taught was taught by Word of Mouth�ORALLY! Nothing was written down until years later. There was an Oral Tradition in The Church that was Guarded ZEALOUSLY! There was no problem with excepting the Catholic Church as The Sole Authority concerning Sacred Scripture until after Luther rebelled.
It wasn�t your church Chuck that Christ Commanded�your church started�what�10 years ago from another church that split from another church because their Pastor offended them by demanding that they do something that their interpretation of Scripture said differently.
Your church get�s its interpretation from The Holy Spirit�right?
What does your church say that this Scripture means?
2 Thessalonians 2:15
�Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.�
And what about this one?
1 Corinthians 11:2
�I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the teachings, just as I passed them on to you.�
And this one?
Titus 1:9
He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.
It seems that Scripture says that the �message� that has been Taught must be passed on, but of course since The Holy Spirit shows you the correct interpretation�it should jibe with what The Church has known since the beginning.
So�Chuck�what does The Holy Spirit say this all means?
Since the removed commandment has to do with graven images (statues) and the Roman Catholic church absorbed a hugh pagan population after Constantine who were used to idols and surely many made their living by carving and selling them, Well it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out what happened.
Sorry, you were probably wanting Archimedes to answer, but I think there is no way in purgatory he is going to answer this! ; )
DontHitThatMark, I'm not Roman Catholic, but the Lutheran church holds to the same numbering. I'll try and give you an answer to your question.
First, I think most would agree it's not really a divisive doctrinal issue. The Bible does not number the commandments. It's for that reason that numbering differences have occurred amongst different denominations. Moreover, despite the differences in numbering, the content is preserved.
For reference, Exodus 20:3-6:
3 �You shall have no other gods before[a] me.
4 �You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.
And also Exodus 20:17:
17 �You shall not covet your neighbor�s house. You shall not covet your neighbor�s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.�
So where do the differences come from? Many Reformed churches make verse 3 the First Commandment and verses 4-6 the Second. Verse 17 is then taken in it's entirety as the 10th Commandment. In the Lutheran church (and I would imagine the Roman Catholic church as well) verse 3 is considered the First Commandment. Verses 4-6 then expand on it. They are considered commentary because to make an idol and worship it is to put another before the true God as forbidden in verse 3. The Ninth and Tenth are drawn from the two separate directives in verse 17. Namely, it is split that the Ninth commandment is "You shall not covet your neighbor�s house." and the Tenth, "You shall not covet your neighbor�s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor."
Again, the reason is no more complex than that Scripture provides no explicit numbering for the commandments to follow. That delineation is determined by church bodies. Remember, too, the indentation and versification in modern bibles is not divinely inspired. :glow:
It's an answer, but it doesn't explain why it's missing completely. I've never really thought about the "numbering", but there are Ten distinct commandments that deal with ten separate things.
Exd 34:28
Deu 4:13
Deu 10:4
I don't want to presume to know how God divided them up, but that's not the point. They aren't just divided, it's missing from the list entirely, but I guess God wanted to make sure we had the distinction between coveting a house, and coveting a wife:laugh::rolleyes:. Why would He make two separate commandments dealing with the same thing? I'm sorry, but it makes much more sense to have them the way they are. The bible plainly states that there are Ten, and it would make sense that each one was on a different subject(and there's 10 subjects), instead of having two on the same thing. I dunno...it seems arbitrary unless you add in the fact that they wanted to bow down in front of statues. Then it makes more sense.
"Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them"
Don't and Two are saying that The catholic Church took out the second commandment because we supposedly worship idols. As to the 10th commandment...I'm not sure what they are babbling about.
It irks me when people (Christians) seem to take glee in propagating LIES! You two Christians do not know history or even Church History.
I've answered the falsehood about The Catholic Church eliminating the second Commandment and about statues.
I suppose you have a photo of some Loved one in your wallet? Do you also have any at home...on the mantle perhaps or on the wall? Are any of these of Loved ones that have passed away? Do you hold these photos in high esteem? In a fire are they one of the things that you try to save?
Statutes are held in similar esteem because of the same reasons that you hold your photos in such a high esteem. They are not "alive"...they are not to be "worshipped". No sane Catholic does that and The Church forbids it.
You really do stretch when you make this 'claim".
10 �You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.�
(I am apologizing in advance for being rude...please don't take it personal)
That is absurd...are you smoking crack?
(Ok, got it out of my system)
*First of all since when is the Bible "commentary" ?
*Second of all this particular piece of scripture is a "official document" a treaty, covenant stipulation of ten. It does NOT contain commentary!
*Thirdly how can you say the content is preserved when 82 words (a complete commandment) describing something not found else where in the official document is DELETED?
*Lastly my Hebrew Interlinear Bible has a comma in the commandment that was split....not a period!
Sorry brother, but this kind of stuff really gets me worked up!
1 John5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. 2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. 4For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
I am trying really hard not to say something I'll regret...but what in Sam Hill are you talking about? The Catholic Church has not removed any of The Ten Commandments! Or altered any other.
Do you guys realize how silly and childish you all sound? Open fair discussion is one thing, but spouting unsubstantiated lies is not the way to come to any kind of Truth.
I've asked for your interpretations of a few verses of Scripture and it was like pulling teeth to get that. It wasn't until we went private that Two finally gave me what The Holy Spirit told him that those Scripture meant.
If we cannot discuss Our Faith openly and with Respect and fairly (without lying)...we should not talk about such things and just keep it light (recipes and such).
It is really a waste of my time dealing with sophomoric, puerile pranks. I would think that we could enjoy thought provoking discussions, but it is becoming more and more clearer to me that it is not possible.
I'm missing the pranks I'm pulling, and I've tried to interpret the scriptures you've listed as best I could. Sorry if it wasn't adequate for your satisfaction:dunce:. Still not answering the question though. The Council of Trent lists the commandments without the one about idolatry. Probably because the one about idolatry says "thou shalt not bow down to them". I've seen them do it in person. Kissing statues, bowing to them, kneeling before them, etc. Why even have statues? Shouldn't all our prayers be going to God? Do you think that if the Saints are up there, that they really want our adoration/veneration? For what? To feed their pride? They are no better than us, we have all sinned and fallen short. Why pray to them when we can go straight to God? Why do we need them when we have Jesus as our intercessor? Maybe I'm missing the point with my tiny little protestant brain that hasn't achieved overpowering educational degrees, but it doesn't make sense to me.
* You wanted go go private, I politely objected it can be seems few pages back. You have my full permission to post anything I have sent to you privately.
* I am doing you a favor right now, even though you doubt me. Go to,"youtube" and search,"the missing commandment" there is a catholic guy there that will tell you all about it. It is the one that is 9+ minutes long.
