In relationships you talk to get to know one another. If things work out the relationship will progress into something more.
My problem is that I can NEVER get to that point because the question always comes up "Do/Have you had sex? My response is always and will always be no I really do want to wait till i'm married. There's nothing wrong with that but guys always stop talking to me after that?
Why is that important for guys to have sex before marriage? Before some one says "Christian guys don't do that" They definatley do.
I've had this experience way to much and I just want to know why this is? Am I the only one left in the World who wants to save it for marriage?
Morals as morals alone can be taken without love, as selfsufficient yokes to hold us down and cause hatred. Like the stoning of the woman. If you take this bible verse and say: Stone all nonvirgins that are not married, I think it is not what God has in mind, right?
So, indirectly, there is of course morals coming from the bible, but if it's not first seen through the glasses of love, it will turn to ungodlyness.
What I want to say: Morals for morals sake is ungodly, even if we derive our rules from the bible. Morals for love's sake, as results of love are hwta God likes, for He commanded us to love, and Jesus said to love God and our next is all the law and the prophets.
So don't look for the morals. Look for the love and the morals will come from themselves.
Let me see if I understand your view point. You are not advocating premarital sex, however you feel that it can be done in such a manner that it would not be a sin (have sex with a woman whom you'd eventually marry?).
What if what your belief causes your neighbor (brother/sister) to sin?
The reason I ask this question is how many people do you think can truly uphold the statements/beliefs/"your personal conviction" you have put forth? How do you know the next woman you will be with can keep this?
What constitutes a prostitute? Who would be considered an adulterer?
Matthew 19:8-10
8 Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery." 10The disciples said to him, "If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry."
Please know that I understand Romans 8:1 so I am not condemning you, but you mentioned that you have had sex before and I'm assuming things didn't work out. Does this mean that you've committed adultery if you have sex again? With that being said, we should also adhere to Romans 6 about how we shouldn't keep on sinning so that grace may increase.
Wouldn't having sex with anyone, but your wife (past, present or future) be considered a sin?
Hebrews 13:4
4Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.
Question Recap: Wouldn't this classify as causing your neighbor to stumble? What is considered an adulterer/prostitute? Have you personally already committed a sexual sin based of what you've already shared with us? Wouldn't having sex with anyone, but your wife (past, present or future) be considered a sin?
Thanks for being open and sharing... I'm genuinely trying to understand so this can presented to others in a better more clear manner.
Yes, I would say it can be done in such a manner that it is not sin, for the bible doesn't speak of marriage.
If my belief causes my neighbour to sin? I think this problem we do have with everything we do. I believe in praying, people see this and think they can have a realationship with Him by only saying some words, that's also wrong, isn't it?
I tell people when I think they go a wrong way and try to do so in brotherly love, somebody sees me citisising others and thinks it was okayto judge, for getting me wrong... there are thousands of examples.
You ask how many people can uphold the statements I have brought forth. You ask how I know the next woman I am with will keep this.
I do not know, but I neither would know if I married before.
Yes, I did have sex with my ex and she left me after 4 years. No what if we were married and she had left me? She would still have left me and we would still have had sex. Or do you just seek to put the guilt to the woman? Like if I have sex with her before marriage, I am guilty and if we marry and she leaves me, it's her fault...?
Life would be perfect if one had only sex with one's wife/husband. But life isn't perfect. So what should I be doing if I had been married to my ex? I would still sin if I had now sex with another, right?
I think it is a wrong perspective to look at this whole issue from a legalistic point of view. Did God want to put up a set of rules to run by just for the rules, or did He want to give us advise on how to live our lives? I think the latter, He told us to not have sex with several people and He told us to not divorce from our wives, the backgroud behind all that is that we should not just use women as sex objects. I do not think this is what I am doing or was doing.
I do not see how this would cause my neighbour to stumble, except if you would say "sex outside of wedlock is sin". I don't think so and I said why above. Sex is to be shared among two people who truely love one another and want to be together for lifetime, and only on both consenting on it, be it inside or outside of wedlock.
Maybe I didn't understand yor question right, feel free to ask back.
In the beginning of this thread, I was led to believe that a christian women had problems in being respected by men in her not wanting to have premarital sex.
Now, I am getting more and more the impression, that being a virgin is strongly connected with being a woman of good reputation and now this thread is about people who think that premarital sex is forbidden in the bible.
This changes the discussion entirely. This is fine with me but since we are going to talk about morals and the bible, I would like to point out something which has occured in the world and has also affected christians (as it seems)
Since when do christians have sex? Where does it say in the bible that you can have sex?
Having sex is a secular trend in the world. The sexual part of making love, has been isolated and fully disconnected of the principle of love. The secular world is telling us that it is quite alright to have sex with whomever and whenever you want, as long as it feels right. The secular world tells us that if it feels good, it can never be bad. The secular world also makes us believe that the more sex you have, the happier you will be. All quite deceiving if you ask me...
I am quite surprised that christians have sex, before or during their marrage.
The whole bible is filled with the concept of love and here we are talking about when one is suppose to have sex, before or after marriage?
It is my understanding that when two people become one, it does not even come close to having sex, in fact it is far beyond!
Being emotionally and spiritually intimate means that we feel and share love. It is the concept of love that was given to us by God and we were given specific body parts in order to be loved and to make love. But to have sex???
If the sex is separated from love (as it is in today�s free world) then indeed that implies that the responsibilities that go together with love are also fully neglected. If you have sex, then you imply that love is either not needed or not appreciated. And a marriage does not change it.
Now what I see here, is that christians state that to have sex is ok as long as it is after marriage. I strongly object to that. I say having sex is the sinn, even after marriage.
I say christians must go back to the concept of making love. Why and when did they leave this concept?
When you make love your are talking about love as stated in Cor13. It does not say anything about the when.... yet is says everything about the how and why.
In my opinion having sex is not simply a different, modern way in English language which has substituted the (maybe somewhat old fashioned) making love.
However, I think it exactly exposes the way we christians have degraded our ideas of making love, thanks to the powerful secular influences, we are all and strongly exposed to.
I think that we christians are fully in the dark here. We have somehow abandoned the love concept and are now trying to place "the having sex" issue into biblical, christian context. Here is where the marriage comes in. But having sex after being married is not the same as making love.
Now I really want to stress that I am myself against premarital sex but not because of fornication but because I think a lot of people, specially young people, have no clue about the love concept which is taught in the bible. And how could they? Christians themselves use the same words the secular world does, even if they mean making love.
I feel that as long as we give signals to the world that we agree with expressions as having sex and using them ourselves while discussing the bible, when we mean (I hope) making love. I think something has slipped in us which does really not belong there. Now once again, changing the words is not what I mean.
The quesiton becomes different as well: Can one make love while not being married? Now fornication is no more an answer. But more importantly, the love concept is brought in. And the marriage concept stays in tact but is not abused for judging people who are for whatever reason not a virgin or not married.
Well, it is time for a coffee! I do apologise for writing so extensively...
Eh....I think I will get a lot of "reactions" with my opinion... but I have decided to post it anyway. After all, I am against having premartial sex...
I agree with you, Harriet. Though I think one has to be careful about when talking of love and making love. 1. Cor 13 is about the love within the community, but you won't be making love to all the community by also using the certain body parts...
But basically I agree with your basic idea: Love is the thing, love between man and woman. If there is no love, making love becomes having sex, becomes pure, ungodly lst for entertainment. And that is sin, as you use your partner as an object without caring for him or her.
And this is independent from the fact if you have this document which states you were married.
On the other hand, if you make love (with the certain body parts to only one person), I see no wrong in it as long as it is not about the entertainment part, but expression of the love in the partnership. The document won't change the love you have for one another, and it won't change your partnership.
If you can kiss a person, which is making love in a way, you can also make love in other ways. That's what I think. But caution: I am European, we do not kiss quite as quickly as Americans do. That for the cultural background ;)
SOS, Abedjau ... both of you have "really" given me a whole new perspective. Love, body parts, Christians having sex or making love... I did laugh (just a little) at some of the descriptive detail yall used in the posts above. I can understand it though. ~GraceMae
Everyone stands on their soapbox and preaches "Sex before marriange is wrong", are we here to dispute that fact? Or are we here to discuss challenges living the Christian life and how to help each other?
Some Christians see the sex issue as wrong, some Christians don't, and some are weak for the flesh. A person may be able to stay strong in this area of their life but fall down in other areas.
No one on this earth is perfect and even if you don't have sex before marriage, there are other areas of your life that you sin so don't pass judgement.
To answer the original question; men are drawn more to the physical and women are drawn more to the emotional. That's the way we're made, but it doesn't give men the green light to sin. Physical attraction is something that's important to men, just like having good communication and an emotional connection is important to women.
I hope people are careful with there judgements and I'm wondering if anyone will ever cast the first stone.
