Author	Thread: The ONE
Admin	The ONE Posted : 3 Apr, 2011 03:07 PM This one (no pun intended) has been on my mind for awhile and before I actually say what my view about this and how it is related to the Bible, I am curious about what other peoples views on this are on what part of the Bible they base in one. The goal here is NOT to argue, but to shake out the truth about this topic based on the word of God and please keep that in mind when you post on this one. Post Reply
stegoodie View Profile History	The ONE Posted : 4 Apr, 2011 11:46 AM Clearly we are all misunderstanding each other. I'm going to try one more time to clarify my thoughts. God is sovereign. He knows everything that has happened, is happening, and ever will happen. Nothing is outside his control. Since that is the case, there is nothing stopping God from bringing a man and woman together in marriage if that is his plan. If it's the plan, it will happen. God also gives humans free will. We can choose to follow God or not. Here's where I think my argument is being misunderstood. There is no way I know what God's will is unless I'm in relationship with him. In fact, I have no idea of the details of God's grander plan so how can I see marrying any one person as part of God's plan until I've done so. I think God's will is very different from his plan. God wants what is best for all his children but he knows not all his children will choose to follow him. The plan reflects this. So if I can't know what the plan is, I see many options but whatever I do is part of God's plan. If I follow God's will in choosing a spouse, then all the better for me because I've done what is right in God's eyes and together, my spouse and I can work in accordance with God's will for the forwarding of his plan. In light of this, the point I'm trying to make is that the idea of waiting for God to bring the "one" into your life can be dangerous/misguided. God directs us to follow after him, always tuned to him and the movement of his spirit. If we get so caught up in our idea of "the one," we may miss the person God wills us to marry or we may miss some other aspect of God's will because of our focus being incorrect. So you see, tulip, I don't really think we are in disagreement. I think we are viewing things from different perspectives. There are always options, and God is always actively involved in our lives showing us his will. We can choose to follow or not but ultimately, whatever we do, it happens according to God's plan because he knows all. Post Reply
View Profile History	The ONE Posted : 4 Apr, 2011 11:54 AM stegoodie, I couldn't agree more. I think you made it very clear and that was the exact conclusion that I was trying to get to, but it just was not coming out as clearly as I had wanted. I don't think it could get anymore clear than that! Post Reply
Tulip89 View Profile History	The ONE Posted : 4 Apr, 2011 04:09 PM I think our biggest confusion here is on the subject of will. God's specific will and his general will are kind of being tossed around without differentiation, and then there's also your assertion that God gave us free will. Honestly, I don't see that in the Bible at all. I see verses like Proverbs 16:33 that says, "the lot is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the Lord," and Matthew 10:29-30 that says, "Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? And not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father. But even the hairs of your head are all numbered." It seems much more Biblical that everything is a wheel in God's Providence. Who do you think sent the Ishmaelites on their trip to Egypt at the exact time Joseph was cast into the pit? Who guided Pharaoh's daughter to the river at just the right time to find Moses in the basket? Who gave Ahasuerus insomnia so that he might begin reading the records of his kingdom? Who sent the whale at just the right time to the very place that Jonah was thrown into the sea? Does this all seem like mere chance of free will, or is it not more likely the hand of God, most wonderful in the most apparently casual contingencies, overruling all second causes to fulfill his will while they work their own? Regarding God knowing the choices that people will make, if the contextual evidence of the above examples isn't enough, 1 Chronicles 28:9 says that God searches all hearts and knows every plan and thought. That sounds pretty cut and dry to me. Luke 16:15 backs it up. Does that mean he causes our sin? Not at all. Sin is not a part of his general will, but as a part of his specific will, he will allow us to fall back into sin to show us our need Christ and how much more satisfying he is than the world. The analogy isn't perfect, but imagine when you're fishing and you hook a fish. You don't reel him straight in. You reel him closer to you, then let him swim out a little bit, then reel him even closer than he was before until you can pick him up out of the water. That's the best way I can understand God allowing us to slip back into what our flesh still loves. It's hard to comprehend a God who is concerned with things as large as keeping the stars in motion, yet also knows the number of hairs on each and every one of our heads, but at the same time, it begins to give us a taste not only of the bigness of our God, but also how intimately he loves and knows us. Post Reply
stegoodie View Profile History	The ONE Posted : 4 Apr, 2011 07:24 PM I agree with your explanation of God's sovereignty, I just don't understand how you can not see the evidence for free will even in some of your examples. God created Adam and Eve in the garden and put him there where there was also the tree of life. He said they should eat from any tree except that one. That implies that they have a choice to obey or disobey. Jonah was told by God to go to Ninevah and he CHOSE not to. When God sent the storm, Jonah knew he had messed up and God spared him using the whale. As to your fishing analogy, look at the fish. It always tries to swim away. Rather than slowly wearing us out to bring us closer to him, I truly believe God wants us to choose him and swim towards him. That's free will, swim towards or away. Now as an aside, I'm unsure how you got the scriptural references you listed. However, when I look them up, it seems to me like you are taking the passages out of context. Maybe you did a google search for scripture that supports your point or maybe you are not using a translation similar to the NIV I'm using. As I look at them, they seem to back the very point I've been attempting to make. Feel free to go back and read the passages containing the verses you gave and see if you disagree with me. If you do, then I suggest that it may be time for us to agree to disagree. I certainly don't want to create animosity and it seems both of us are quite entrenched in our thoughts. Post Reply
Tulip89 View Profile History	The ONE Posted : 4 Apr, 2011 08:56 PM God may have put Adam and Even in the garden and told them not to eat from the Tree, but he also wrote the Lamb's Book of Life before the foundation of time. The only explanation that allows that to make sense is that also before the foundation of time he willed that his whole character be displayed to the universe, not just his love and goodness, which allowed for man to be tempted by the Devil and fall under the curse of sin. With Jonah, I'd explain that by saying that God told him to go but temporarily didn't stop Satan from tempting him away from what God told him to do until he was in the storm to teach him (and us) a lesson that would draw Jonah closer to him. The fishing analogy breaks down pretty quickly like I said. If we're going to stick with it though, I would argue that the fish has been given a new nature by the fisherman (lungs), and while it loves the air now, it still has parts of it that love the water (gills) and that God works to change the heart of the fish to love air more than water as he is reeling it in so that while the fish is choosing what it does, it's choice is caused by the fisherman's work in its heart. One of the problems with the NIV is that it is a phrase by phrase translation, which means that the translators aren't translating it directly. It's not quite The Message's passage by passage translation, but word for word translations are far more widely accepted for studying. I doubt that's the problem here though. Reading back over, I think my points still hold, but I never bothered to address the issue of God's commands. Even if God's pulling the strings of our heart, that doesn't negate any of the commands he gives. If you seek God, you'll find him. That's true. How that comes about doesn't change that fact. Post Reply
View Profile History	The ONE Posted : 5 Apr, 2011 12:24 AM This is why Tulip is cool. Post Reply
Tulip89 View Profile History	The ONE Posted : 5 Apr, 2011 08:44 AM Awww, thanks Ms. Marvel! Post Reply
Elisa View Profile History	The ONE Posted : 5 Apr, 2011 06:59 PM DreamTime, Great point. We allow our kids free will....however, that doesn't mean we don't do an awful lot of coaching, guiding, and sometimes even manipulating to help ensure they end up with the right people (in our eyes at least). Why would God do any less? I had not thought of it in this way. Would we allow our children to turn down the gift we have chosen form them....knowing it will make them happy? Maybe...but that does not mean the story is over by a long shot. People sure are silly to keep putting limits on God. Thanks for the new analogy. Elisa Post Reply
W8n4U2BMine View Profile History	The ONE Posted : 6 Apr, 2011 10:01 AM New 2 this blog so U guys have prob covered some of this so 4give th repetition. Pre-destination vs. free will it seems is a necessary sidebar to this topic, however it's not a versus situation, they co-exist. We need to remember that for God to pick "one" 4 you as preferential is "possible", but because of FREE WILL, we may not pick the same one. However we are predestined only in the sense that time "DOES NOT" exist with God as it does with us, because he exists in the past, pres, n future ALL at the same time, we don't. It's not that our paths are "chosen" FOR us, HE just ALREADY knows "which" paths we're going to take. As 4 marriage, I don't think Christians focus enough on following Christ n not the world. Marriage is more about commitment n love than romance. "the One" is more a romantic ,worldly, "SOULMATE" kind of notion. There is NO marriage in death. THE ONLY "PERMANENT" marriage is Christ to the church. We are partaking in a partnership that takes us through THIS life ONLY. However, we must not 4get it's the NEXT life that's the IMPORTANT one. Like picking a car, yoke yourself to someone you love AND who is fit to the task of your "combined" callings in life. Example: you're FREE to get any vehicle you wish, I know which would suit your purpose best--but it's YOUR decision. So first FIND who you are IN CHRIST, and his calling on your life (remember, we were all CALLED), then after you receive your assignment....PLEASE don't pick a beautiful, sleek Porsche, if you've been called to work OFFROAD and in the SWAMPS:ROFL: GOD bless you all Post Reply
View Profile History	The ONE Posted : 6 Apr, 2011 01:06 PM SilverSurfer16, Thanks!!! I think has got to be the best explanation that I have heard!! I wish I could have made myself more clear in what I have been saying about this topic, but my words were just not coming out in the proper way. Tulip, I never against in what you were saying. I just don't we were understanding that a duality exist and how GOD balances it is up to HIM. We can't begin to understand the ways of God, but we can serve him to the best of our ability. Post Reply

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