I'm 42 years old... and my daughter is 23 years old... and it doesn't set well with me to find that some of the men on here that are interested in me... show on their profiles that they could also be interested in my "CHILDS" age... :excited:
Is there not a moral/ethitical appropriate age that a person should stand on... so their not crossing the child/adult lines... no matter how old we get? :angel:
1 Timothy 5:2 Treat the older women as you would your mother, and treat the younger women with all purity as your own sisters.
The New Testament has three pastoral letters, 1st and 2nd Timothy, and Titus. Paul wrote these letters to men younger than him for the purpose of directing them in running the church.
Paul an apostle, commissioned by Christ himself has great authority in my mind. These three letters stir much controversy in today's church, especially the comments Paul makes regarding women in the church.
I know from previous conversation with GGsmiles that she believes, and lives what Paul directs. She does not try to make her life fit into the world, but rather she makes it fit the Bible, and walks in the world.
Some have quoted many Old Testament passages to qualify a wide age range regarding marriage. Know this, just because you read it in the Bible, it does not mean our Father endorses or condemns it.
At times the text is very clear regarding endorsing or condemning. Many times it is silent. Several have mentioned verses that were silent regarding age, but loud regarding consequences of actions directly related to the age difference.
I lack much intelligence, and my wisdom is folly compared to my Father's, therefore I give the most credence to a simply stated, clear, concise, pastoral letter intended to instruct younger men on to behave.
The Lord cured me of lust overnight, and soon there after brought me to 1 Timothy 5:2. Younger is open to interpretation, but sister is not. It is my belief that Paul is talking about younger as ten years or so. The younger sister that was obnoxious, yet you were tasked with taking care of and protecting.
It sickens me to think of younger women in a sexual frame. Similar rules that applied to me as a young man continue to apply today. In Kansas, we males are forced to refrain from any female younger than 16 or face serious consequences. Three men were recently sentenced to life prison terms, because one had impregnated a 14 year old.
He feared that once the baby was born, the girls parents would charge with him statutory rape, and he knew the DNA evidence would convict him. His tragic answer was to employee two friends to get rid of the problem, tragic.
These laws are to protect the young, defenseless, and ignorant. The tragedy is that most parents today, and DA's do not enforce the laws, and our young people are living carnal lives. It was not so in my generation, which is only once removed. We respected that law with fear or Godliness, but we respected it.
Many references were provided that the Bible is clear on the age of twenty as adulthood. Clear, concise, no argument. Indeed, Kings were appointed at younger ages, but it is not clear from the text that our Father endorsed such to take wives or be sexually active.
I find the Old Testament full of cases where people of faith grossly misunderstand our Father's will for marriage. Most Old Testament men had many wives, an obvious violation of our Father's plan. Many times the text makes this clear without our Father giving a direct condemnation, but a text detailing the complications or disaster that it created.
IN conclusion, I lean on 1 Timothy 5:2. I personally have an age limit of about six years both directions, and deal with maturity levels within those boundaries.
Praise the LORD JESUS CHRIST...Phoneyx, you spake of adolesence and adulthood. The point is it never says in the WORD of GOD that one has to be classified as an "adult" before entering into holy matrimony. Neither do the laws of our land say such. So if a person isn't breaking GOD'S law neither the law of the land, what is the problem?
If the references you gave on the reign of the kings had to do with the evil works they done, it's important to note that not all did that which was "evil" in the sight of the LORD.
Also, the WORD of GOD clearly says that they Reigned in Jerusalem having all been under the age of 20.
As far as drinking is concerned, JESUS turned water into firmented wine. If it were wrong to drink CHRIST would not have been partaker in such. JESUS was charged with being a "winebibber"...if that was just grape juice, what would have been the big deal? Paul instructed Timothy to use "a little" wine for his stomach sake and his often infirmities. Paul also said it was ok for deacons and the elder women to drink as long as they didn't consume "much wine". He could have just said No wine. Praise the LORD. Amen.
Cattle, I did not call those who said it was not in the Bible but would not do it themselves to be perverts. I said that those who think that it is okay because it is not written where everyone would come to that conclusion and therefore they see it as okay and would do it themselves, to be perverts. If that seems out of line, then we'll just have to disagree there. You'd also have to feel that all those who speak out against those who have sex with 12 and 13 year olds to be out of line for calling those people perverts. Whether you do or not, I stand by my statment.
--Phoneyx, you spake of adolesence and adulthood. The point is it never says in the WORD of GOD that one has to be classified as an "adult" before entering into holy matrimony.--
A man is made to rule the household. Under normal circumstances, men did not reign until after twenty and, if before, with elder(s) and/or priest(s) being de facto leaders. Exodus 21:10
--Neither do the laws of our land say such.--
If that's the only thing that decides the morality of it, then we're doomed to pedophilia.
--So if a person isn't breaking GOD'S law neither the law of the land, what is the problem?--
The problem is you are saying 'if'. It is not 'if'. If verses do not help you, then the idea of protecting the holy temple should. For instance, teenagers are more susceptible to sexual diseases, miscarriages and death. For the baby, there is a greater chance of death for them as well as long as health and genetic problems.
--If the references you gave on the reign of the kings had to do with the evil works they done, it's important to note that not all did that which was "evil" in the sight of the LORD.
Also, the WORD of GOD clearly says that they Reigned in Jerusalem having all been under the age of 20.--
You ignored that they weren't de facto which can be learned through Jewish history and didn't answer what circumstances they happened under, but moving from that to your statement an atheist can do good works but that does not mean it is right to have them rule over a people or church.
--As far as drinking is concerned, JESUS turned water into firmented wine. If it were wrong to drink CHRIST would not have been partaker in such. JESUS was charged with being a "winebibber"...if that was just grape juice, what would have been the big deal? Paul instructed Timothy to use "a little" wine for his stomach sake and his often infirmities. Paul also said it was ok for deacons and the elder women to drink as long as they didn't consume "much wine". He could have just said No wine.--
One thing no one has pointed out so far is the fact that for the typical person of OT times 30 was considered a ripe old age. It was against the norm for people to live into their 40's & 50's. So, a "girl" of 15 in OT times was pretty much in mid-life. Does that mean that it is acceptable for 14 & 15 yr. olds to marry today, no. I can tell you that coming from Ky. that does still go on today though. It was not too long ago that if a woman past her 18th birthday and was not married she was considered an old maid.
1 corinthians 7:36 But if any man thinks he is behaving improperly toward his virgin, if she is past the flower of youth, and thus it must be, let him do what he wishes. He does not sin; let them marry.
ya see spose a young man happens to get a young woman pregnant.. you are saying he would be a pervert to marry her.. i say that would be to completely disobey the word of GOD. as you can see in that scripture there. if a man thinks he is behavin improperly towards his virgin and shes past the flower of youth.. then let them marry and he does not sin.. now if shes pregnant shes past the flower of youth and able to child bear ,right , and he definitely is behavin improperly for her to be done got pregnant right,
so therefore hes not a pervert but yet he is just doing the right thing that GOD commands him to do..
the first time i was married i was 18 and she was 14 .. i wasnt bein a pervert ,nope i did the right thing by her and married her.. as i was behaving improperly with her.. i had known her.. now according to alot of mans thoughts i shouldnt of married her. but according to GOD i should have.. see there lies the difference..
the states are set to be the authority from GOD.. as romans tells us..
romans 13:1 -7 1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4 For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. 5 Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience sake. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God's ministers attending continually to this very thing. 7 Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.
you can see in verse 1 that the governing authorities are appointed by GOD. and it says they are not a terror to good works..
with that said then the laws of the land are to be for good.. not for evil.. how do we know whats good? the bible tells us as christians what is good and what is evil.. so as long as the laws of the land are lookin out for the good of the people and not going against the word of GOD then we are to follow them.. whether we think somethings unjust or not.. we must look to the word.. what does the word say about it? if you can find some scripture that shows it is clearly goin against the word of GOD. then you should not agree with it... say abortion, or say gay marriages.. clearly go against the word of GOD.. but according to the scripture as long as the man is behaving improperly towards his virgin and she is past the flower of youth.. in other words when she went from girl to young woman.. the he does not sin and let them marry... you must have clear proof in scripture to go against the laws of the land.. .. thats the only way you can know.. and ive seen nowhere where GOD specifically prohibits any woman past the flower of youth to be married.. the states usually but not always want a doctor to show proof the young woman is pregnant to wed under the age of 16.. and with the consent of the parents.. therefore she wont have to live in sin and have an illigitimate child..and it follows the word of GOD.
see thats what ya go by.. so not a pervert but doin the right thing by GOD..
Cattle, I never said that a person shouldn't marry the other that they get pregnant. I said it was wrong for them to even be intimately together like that to begin with. He is still a pervert for impregnating the girl before womanhood, but he does right by marrying her. Just because a rapist does right by attempting to honor the woman with a marriage proposal, does not take away what he did. I also did not say to break the law, either God's or man's. Please do not attempt to excuse what was done wrongly with what was done right. Good deeds do not erase the bade, since we have only done what was satisfactory to begin with, if that, and certainly not beyond the goodness God required. Jesus even shows this in his parables.
Mat 25:25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
Mat 25:26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
In the end, we don't even match up to this servant who lost nothing but gained nothing either.
Loveandgraces says: "Concerning the ways of Society, Society can allow what it chooses. Christians serve CHRIST and not society, which allows abortion, homosexual relationships, swingers, witchcraft, drunkeness, adultery, and many other things that GOD'S WORD disallows."
And later: "Personally, if I saw such a relationship, no matter how strange it may look, if I cannot find Biblical Proof against it, I will not condemn it. That's the stance I take with anything in life."
We, as Christians, serve Christ by helping society come to Him. We do this by love. For the greatest fruits of evangelism are born out of love for our neighbor.
To take your example, If I know my neighbor responds poorly to drinking, it is my responsibility of a Christian to act with love to prevent him from drinking. It does not matter if the act was expressly condemnation by the Word of God (or rather our interpretation of). Acts that lead one to sin should be avoided. Do we ignore our neighbor as they come thatclose to sin, but only to step in to condemn them just before the drink that pushes them to the point of drunkenness. Don't you see the fallacy in this stance? For if I truly loved my neighbor, would I not step in earlier? Would I have not invited him out of the bar and into Mass, or to enjoy a ginger ale or a game of golf?
And what ministry we apply our neighbors goes double for us. For we must remove the wooden beam from ourselves. To be faithful followers of Christ we should aim to be faithful leaders of our family, friends and community. If we love Christ, then we live for Christ. We don't walk in the margins of sin, we openly live joyful, loving and saintly lives. Our lives are not for us, they are for Him and our neighbor. We enter heaven not by the money we earn or beauty or fertility of our wives. We enter heaven by our love to Him and our neighbor.
We must be mindful of how others view our actions as it is written:
Mt 18:6 Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.
He is still a pervert for impregnating the girl before womanhood
lol girl you are summin.. but you are my sis and i love you much.. and i appreciate you and your input in these discussions... first off she couldnt be pregnant if she hadnt already reached her womanhood... and secondly how do ya know for sure she wasnt the one jumped his bones hehe.. maybe shes the pervert hehe... naw seriously not a pervert just for gettin someone pregnant.or for gettin pregnant. but is two people that gave into lust.. their flesh won the battle.. got the best of em..and they were wrong to give into temptation.. thats true.. but as you can see in the verse above that it happened and it is not a sin for them to marry... also were talkin about consensual knowin each other.. not a rape.. rape is a form of abuse and there is no escuse for abuse or rape of any kind.. now as for me as ive stated earlier i believe its ok long as its legal and sticks to GODS word.. now as for me personally i dont want a 18 yr old even though its legal.. now that may be who GOD sends me .. but i really cant see me in that situation..
Praise the LORD JESUS CHRIST...Peace and love be unto you dear cferry, from GOD our FATHER and HIS Holy CHILD JESUS the CHRIST.
I wasn't speaking of one who is responding poorly to drinking or to any other non-sinful action such as eating certain foods that may harm the individual, when I said i don't condemn drinking (meaning in general). Ofcourse in love, by the grace of GOD I would attempt to encourage others not to harm themselves in anyway, if I can clearly see that the action is harming the person.
If a person was a diabetic and wasn't supposed to consume but so much sugar and eating a piece of cake would do the person great physical harm, ofcourse I would step in; but that doesn't make eating cake wrong for everyone. Neither should I preach nor teach to everyone that eating cake is wrong.
And so it is with drinking. When we began to teach our opinions as the WORD of GOD and not state them as our opinions then we are guilty of heresy. Heresy is a work of the flesh as is idolatry and fornication and must be repented of or the end is eternal damnation. (Gal 5:16-26)
So, by the grace of GOD, I stick to what the WORD says. When we seek to exalt ourselves to make our personal walk someone elses, it really takes away from our closeness with GOD and hinders our very own walk. (Lk 18:14)
I have told different people that while drinking is not a sin and getting drunk is, the best way not to get drunk is not to drink. But I won't tell them that drinking is a sin and if you can show me Just One scripture that cleary says it is then send it Right Away.
Some of us have been taught a certain way (man's doctrine) and change the WORD of GOD to make it fit our preconceived ideas, instead of conforming or rather throwing away our ideas and receiving the complete WORD of GOD (the Truth).
We all may have a personal set of rules that we live by in our personal walk and while it's ok to share them, we are not to teach them as the commandments of GOD, unless they truly are the commandments of GOD.
GOD'S eyes are upon the Truth.
No we don't want to cause anyone to stumble, but at the same time we have to use wisdom in our walk, because no matter how you choose to live as a Christian, Someone somewhere will mostly likely have a problem with something you're doing or not doing; and if you change to please one person, you have just offended another person, and so on.
Use Godly Wisdom and seek to Please GOD above all. Peace, Love, and Amen.
