I am addressing us men specifically. I just had a revelation about how we are responsible for the state of relationships and the level of divorce in the church.
You who is reading this. What are you going to do?
I would ask you to stop what you are doing right now in persuing any relationship and become not just familiar but intimatly aquainted with all scripture pertaining Divorce and remarriage.
Stop what your doing and learn what Jesus says and why. learn what Paul writes and why.
We men need to turn this around and it starts here at the front line of the battle. The enemy has waged war against the family and who will stand with me?
I have looked into these scriptures and one thing is sure, so have many other Churches as well. Most main line denominations and even nondenominational churches will marry divorced people with some counseling and consideration into the circumstances, biblical grounds, and prevention of a second or third divorce.
I recently read something that suggested that verse from Jesus had to do with men not giving their wives proper divorce certificates that were real and valid from the church and the government of that time and it was suggested in this article that Jesus was telling men that they needed to be sure the women were truely divorced and not partially divorced or still married to their husbands therefore adultery would make sense there. Maybe you could look into the greek there and see what that means since you are studying this topic and see if there any truth to the article or not.
I think many of us women see ourselves as disserted or widowed in the sense of what was done to us and the way we were cheaten upon, many will disagree with this but I am telling you how many of my sisters and I feel in this matter.
ALso we need to remember God's Grace, divorce is not the unforgivable sin, rejecting Jesus is and obedience is vital but we need to be sure we understand the meanings of some of those hard verses before we just run off and tell millinion of people they cant remarry according to God's word, when most churches allow remarriage...My husband is married to another woman and it would be silly to wait around for him and I would say even adulterous since his is legally married to another woman. He is NOT my husband but is the father of my kids.
Scripture interprets scripture and the Bible says what is loosed on earth is loosed on Heaven and what is Bound on Earth is Bound in Heaven. My marriage to my ex who was a Pastor, is loosed here and in Heaven, his marriage to his wife is bound here and in Heaven before God. I am not His wife.
I have been shocked at what a big deal this issue has been on these sites and on another site a man just cruely abused me and hurt me verbally because I am a divorced woman looking to remarry and he himself is divorced...
Grace rules not the Law...each person needs to understand thei WOrd on thse issues and talk to their own Pastors because really, we represent a lot of different Biblical viewpoints on this site!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This issue is one that needs to be taken to ones own church for review if they are unsure. That is my view. :angel:
You mentioned the article on the scriptures of topic here saying Jesus was telling men that they needed to be sure the women were truely divorced and not partially divorced or still married to their husbands so that there was no adultery taking place. I heard the preach a few tjime over guess the past few years.
Another example of revelation (for me anyway) is the belief that women shoudn't preach based on scripure where Paul says women shoud be quiet in church. That was because the Jewish traditioned newly Christian women had questions. They looked to their husbands who were (it was temple) sitting in separate areas. They were loud... Paul did not say a woman cannot preach.
Grace... also the church I was a Pastor's wife in the Lutheran church ELS in fellowship with WELS are very strict on women preaching or being heard having a voice in the church. THey interpret it that a woman can not "teach or have authority" over a man" in a way that says women can not even vote for if there were more women then men, then women would now have a voice over a man...
I really like nondenominational churches because they seem to be able to keep the main thing, as the main thing, Jesus, repentance, forgiveness, growth and missions...Love being the center of all. I believe we have brothers and sisters in all CHristian denominations but I really feel for me, this is the best fit after what I have been through in my marriage and CHristian walk. There seems to be more work more ideas, less sqabbeling, and less politics then where I was before.
Beginning: 1 Timothy 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach nor to assert authority over the man but to be in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
I will sit in no church that condones women pastors, it is well for a woman to teach women and children.
1 Timothy 2:11: Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
Women were not even supposed to speak in church much less preach.
You need not ask any pastor but read it from the bible.
I've been taught that reference means the woman shouldn't have authority, which is also what the stillness or 'silence' in the scripture there means. Why would God tell the church to have women sit in silence? Babies cry, children giglgle, but women don't speak.
We don't have authority, different issue, and not what I said. Usually, well, my usually anyway a woman preacher, minister, whatever has a husband unless windowed who is her leader. As for preaching/teaching, today these are synonymous, iagiain in my usaual. In areas of marriage lets just say, would it not be benificial to hear a message from the other side of the pastor's marriage/experience as well as his? I am so grateful that this is available to me.
Curious,how do you feel about female alter workers, they pray, they lay hands, they hear from God, they advise, yes, they are silent, when you are telling them why you've come up, hopefully they are anointed, they are approved by the Pastor and they hear from God up there.
I think we would all agree that we must interpret scripture with scripture. Can we fully understand the hard saying that MsMarvel has submitted without looking at scripture as a whole?
For instance, my question with her scripture is this... WHO is the church?
Are we (all believers around the world) not the church, or is it 'at temple' that Paul is talking about where women should not speak?
If, in fact, we are all the church, without brick and mortar - as the scripture does attain to -- then that scripture could in fact be interpreted that women should not be allowed to speak at all. This website, and other Christian websites like it, would err in giving women the option to post on any forum, any chat room, or indeed, present a profile. Giving our input, even on non-biblical issues, would be in violation of that interpretation of scripture on the chance that we may usurp authority from one of the men. We would simply be permitted to post a picture, our pedigree and a phone number and wait for a fellow to call-in his proposal.
However, if we look at most of the rest of what Paul wrote, as well as other cannonized writers in the Old and New Testements, Ephesians 4 being only one sample, which states that God has a position for and values all members of the body of Christ: male, female, slave, free, former Jew, former Gentile... All are free. All are valued parts of His body, subject to Him, with a purpose intricate to the wellbeing of the whole.
It would seem that interpreting that single scripture verse is not as straight forward and simple, in light of the rest of God's word. Perhaps it needs deeper investigation.
Like everything, I understand that it is all down to intention and the heart of the matter, I disagree with you not.
Yes, the church is not a building but the body of Christ, rather all those who truly believe in the Lord, and are his sheep.
However, you took the scripture I had posted out of context. What we are having here is a discussion, and many of the posts on this forum are discussions.
I am not taking authority over a man, and I am not preaching nor ministering.
There IS neither jew nor gentile in Christ, I too have read the scripture and the scriptures before and after. I believe if you'll read the context of the scripture, you'll know that it means there is no one Christian more special than another, we are all God's beloved children.
That has nothing to do with not preaching to men. More importantly, why is it so important that I preach to men?
In every scripture it was a man speaking to the crowds. Paul, or it was John, or Jesus, or a disciple of Jesus, none of which were women. And when they sent people out to preach the gospel two by two, they were all men.
Is it good for women to pray for people, to take care of them, to be helpers? Yes, that's pleasing to the Lord. Is it it pleasing to the Lord if I go directly against his word to preach his gospel? No. I would not wish to bring dishonor to him that way.
Wrong and right cannot exist in the same place, you see? Am I doing him right if I disobey his word, and preach to men and women, speaking about the father and his goodness, and how he expects our obedience? No I am not.
Thank you MsMarvel. I am not even a little rattled.
I don't think I took anything out of context, but was responding to your comment
"1 Timothy 2:11: Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
Women were not even supposed to speak in church much less preach."
I am not in opposition to the scripture that you quoted, I am just asking if we need to take a closer look at it's meaning.
Does Paul mean "in the church", and if so, does that mean in the building or the body?, or does he mean in general when there are men present that we are not to speak?
I'm all for a friendly discussion on this matter. :rolleyes:
