I didn't appreciate the threat that you gave me. That was unwarranted, and not necessary to prove your worth. I think you are selective with the love you show people, and that you have a hard time accepting people who think and speak differently than you. You have been very judgemental and hyper-critical towards me, and have made it very clear that you don't like me. I get it! But, I have been willing to like you, and still am willing. That has never changed.
I didn't call you vulgar names in private as you implied, but came to you with an honest and open heart. I declared to you who I am, and how I felt about your attitude towards me. There was nothing deceptive or immoral about what I said. The examples of a Pharisee are illustrated in the bible.
I gave you many opportunities to know me, to ask me anything you wanted, to help build a deeper appreciation and understanding for each other, but you turned all of them down. You walked away. You shunned me. You closed the door. That's ungodly. That's narrowminded.
I kept the door open. It still is. But please don't judge me. You don't know all of my heart. You don't know what my personality is like in person. You never sat down with me to have a cup of coffee to talk about God and life. You implied that it's your way or the highway? I thought God was our boss, that we are equals through His eyes, but you implied you're a better person than most, and if we don't bow down to you, then things won't be right, or go right for the time spent on here?
Again, you turned your back on me. Not the other way around.
dear eternal, i never said it was my way or the highway.. its the sites way and rules that imply here.. and folks are expected to abide by them..
since you brought it up and are questioning my honor about you callin me direct names. , i will post your private emails to me..
you did in fact call me direct names.. i dont think i said you called me vulgar names anywhere here on this site ..
you do need to calm down as you just made 3 direct name calls to me on your above post.. anyway heres the private emails with the name calling you say you didnt do.. also it shows i didnt twist your words.. when i said you tried to change the intentions of lust , from what was originally asked by you to money power etc..
is this your fruits? ill let folks determine for themselves.. also i never answered you back in private but once.and i posted my answer to you on the forums..
ole cattle
From: EternalHope Dec 16, 2009
To: cattleman2011
Subject: Forum Questions
Message: Hi!
I appreciated you taking the time to respond to my forum questions as I do everyone who participated. However, I interpreted from your resonse in regards to the same question about lust posted under the women's category, that you are judging me, and unrighteously. No need to play the role of the hero. I'm not a criminal.
You don't know me. The topic I created has nothing to do me with me personally. Also, that's one of the reasons why I stated I wasn't seeking a "textbook" answer. I know God's Word well, and on lots of topics, but it's all too common that Christians just throw out a bible verse on autopilot in response to a question and walk away. My topic of interest wasn't about me or for me. It was about the people who replied to it, to help them connect more deeply to what they believe, and to help them understand more cleary how they would honestly react, respond, and behave to a certain circumstance. That's part of who I am, and what I do.
While I understand how you might have felt uncomfortable with the topic being asked to women, my motives were/are pure. Nothing dishonorable, shady, seedy, etc. The questions are tasteful, thought provoking, and faith affirming. There was nothing wrong about posting these publically as you might have implied, and in the right setting with other people present, privately would make for an equally righteous discussion. I don't appreciate you sending out a subtle message that I'm some "red alert" kind of guy. Far from the truth. I'm sexually pure,and not leading some kind of immoral, double standards kind of life. I am fully accountable before God, have a proper faith-perspective, fully infused and guided by the Holy Spirit. I don't say this to boast, but to reinforce that I'm a sincere, honest, evolving man of faith in Christ.
Please measure your words and their consequences before you speak.
Lust isn't just sexual in nature. A person can lust after food, drugs, alcohol, success, money, power, prestige, status, and the list can go on infinitely.
Will
From: EternalHope Dec 16, 2009
To: cattleman2011
Subject: Re: Forum Questions
Message: Ole Cattle,
It's not for you to judge if the Holy Spirit was leading me, but I'm a Holy Spirit infused believer and follower of Christ. What I don't subscribe to is ignorance, but I can forigive your unwarranted public attack against me. That alone would make me question just exactly who you are even though, both you and I come from the same place and serve the same God. However, you took my righteous question and put it in the wrong context. There's was nothing impure or immoral, or wrong about what I asked both to man and woman alike.
I believe in edification and enlightenment via God's Word. Any question I post is for that reason only. I hope our conversations do both for you, and your prideful ways.
Now, it would be improper and ungodly if you, I , or any other man would engage in a conversation about sex with a female, especially one not in our age category, and if she didn't solicit the biblical truth relating to her questions in the first place. In the same light, it would be just as improper for any woman to instigate a discussion about sex with men not in her age category, and if the targeted guy didn't make an inquery first.
Most importantly, the topic I posted was not about sex. It was about lust, and how you approach it. Don't confuse the issues because of your upbringing. I wasn't soliciting a conversation about sex with a woman or man for that matter. It was lust, the reality of it, its consequences, and anything else anyone on here wanted to add of value.
You are acting like a very self-rigtheous, condemning, Pharisee. Know the person before you judge. Know the right context before you judge. Neither of these do you know.
Maybe you don't the bible verses on judging people, but God says," judge not or ye will be judged...the measure by which you judge will be used to judge you."
Will
From: EternalHope Dec 17, 2009
To: cattleman2011
Subject: Lust post
Message: Cattle,
I understand that you are a prideful man who doesn't know how to apoligize. I don't want to be that kind of man.
I'm not a "weak" lamb, or a sexual predator. While I wouldn't ask my mom specifically about her sex life, we are best friends since my dad passed away nearly 20 years ago. She's an awesome, compassionate, educated, loving, woman whom I respect dearly, love as much as I do Jesus, and will always think the world of. I have no sisters, but thought that would have been a cool addition to our family. But I do have one brother that I admire greatly too.
You come off on here more as a stoic cowboy, the "big" man on the block, if you will, trying to prove your worth, to protect the Christian community. I understand the wolf in sheep clothing parable. I'm not a wolf, and there is only one true man whom I assume we all love and serve- Jesus Christ.
I thought I gave you much clarity on what the issues you have with me or my post. I have been nothing but honest, sincere, straightforward. I do have a biblical right to defend my position, if that threatens you as a man, I will not apologize, neither did Jesus Christ when His temple was being turned into a business market.
The topic wasn't about sex. I wasn't seeking soap opera details about it, or trying to engage in an unsolicited or solicited conversation about sex with men, women, underaged, overaged, private or public etc., etc. ,etc.
It was about the real life reality that Christians, both male and female face...in the workplace, church, the gym, and wherever people are, lust will follow. It's not a personal reflection of present issues I face. I was hoping for a sincere and honest adult discusion on lust, not sex. Christians aren't immune from it, and despite what you said, lust is talked about in the bible. It's mentioned many times. Lust always precedes sin, and the gender based ideas/ responses was what the intended purpose for that topic was.......for edification, enlightenment, and not some seedy, sexually, based conversation. You interpreted it like that, but have created much uncessary grief for my heart due to your ignorance.
I do respect your old-fashioned values/upbringing. I have traditions that like too, but your "attack" was unwarranted, leading, and provoking in an intentional kind of way. Please seek out a person in private first to gain a full understanding of the full truth, intentions, and context of anything you may have concerns with. I show people the same consideration and respect, it's the right thing to do. It's the Christianly thing to do.
Again, you chose not to respond to my previous email yesterday. I clearly outlined what you asked. You have been judgemental, condemning, and self-righteous on this issue.
Being a deacon doesn't make you better than anyone on here. All Christians are equal and equally loved by Christ.
If there is something that you still don't understand, then you are welcome to ask. I have been a straight shooter with all people who have replied to me on this. But thankfully, many more people understood my post in ways that you can't, both male and female alike.
If you would like to apoligize, and start over, then I'm open for that, but it's going to be hard to be friends with you considering how closed off you are.
Regardless, please don't twist my words publically or privately that I share with you in favor of your defense to make you look like God.
dear eternal. also this is the post you speak of as a threat , wasnt a threat but a warning that folks thst dont obey the rules here are usually gone.. some for a short while others permanantly.. and you also say that i said you called me vulgar names.. which i did not say that.. i said you called me names.. folks see for yourself..heres the post..
dear eternal, i surely do,,,,, rebuking them ,telling them again and again of right and wrong.leading them guiding them feeding them the word and still loving them through it all. forgiving them and showing them mercy as CHRIST had also shown me. prayin for em..
ya know i love folks to come here. and we have all kept it a very nice site to come to. thanks to people that care and the administration here.
and i dont usually have to say something to someone but one time and they apologize and you dont usually have it occur much more. sometimes in a heated discussion i may have to give another gentle reminder to em but they stop.. and dont continue .. they realize theyre doin wrong and they stop.. and those that wont listen and continue aint here no more or they got a little vacation..
i dont get on anyone here without a reason.either direct name calling, being totally mean ,improper material, innappropriate material or threats.. and if i get on ya i only speak truth ..
so even though i can forgive you for the direct names youve called me in private and here you still gotta abide by the rules here. same as the rest of us. or we pay the price..
so if you believe that im not gonna speak up when youre breaking a rule here then youre sadly mistaken. and if ya dont listen then i will bring it to the administrations attention.
cause if you dont speak up and folks are allowed to just say anything they want to anyone or about anything then youll have utter chaos.. and this site ,which is a great christian site will go down fast.. and i really dont wanna see that.. cause i love the people here. the easiest way to get along with me whether you like me or not is to just follow the rules here.. its really quite simple.
Will I am not certain that the "Say Something Nice About Someone" thread is an appropriate place to air dirty laundry or hurt feelings. I actually think if I felt this way about someone on the forum, that it would be more appropriate to sent them an email and let them know that my feelings were hurt if that be the case.
I can understand why people might be getting a distinct impression of you from your posts, Will, think about it. You have asked everyone on the forum how they handle lust, you asked how they would feel about a pastor having an extramarital affair and most recently you have opened the topic of homosexual marriage and faith. You have to admit, for the short time you have been posting, you have posted a lot of sexually charged topics. This might be why you are not being received as well as you would like. Just a thought. In that sense Ole Cattle may have a point. Not everyone is comfortable to discuss such topics, and the ones that are uncomfortable with it, most likely are not going to tell you. I think that was his point more than anything.
What you just posted above is blatantly hostile Will. Is that really the kind of person you want other to see you as on this site? Do not forget that when you attack someone in this manner that there is a good chance there are others on the site that appreciate them more than you do perhaps, which will not make such words well received.
Take a step back my Brother and breath this thing out a bit. Could there be a point here that might be viewed as valid by others? If so, perhaps the other person is not so out of line and it is not as personal as you feel like it might be.
Today my Pastor said something that I think we should all think about and that is the biggest road block in our faith is our own self centered attitude of importance. I think under that category, we all need to step up from time to time.
I'm going to repost what I posted for another one of your recent posts. I think it is worth reading and I hope you read it.
Will,
When you read Paul�s letters there is no attempt by him to Tout himself or �Blow his own whistle�. When Paul self-deprecates himself it is genuine and sincere; there is no ulterior motive lurking within his words.
Will, from your very first post I sensed something �different� about the �tone� and �tenor� of your words. Each subsequent Thread (and you�ve given me numerous ones to read) showed me more and more of your personality.
Some of my responses to your posts were meant to �elicit� a response from you and you did so. Your intelligence is very obvious in your writing and that is not being questioned here. What I want to point out is your constant pseudo-self-deprecation and showing everyone how you are being �persecuted� for your �beliefs�.
It appears that your goal in life is to titillate and excite�to create �Drama�.
You even made a very well-known Christ statement
�Who do you say I am?� speaking about yourself. Well, Will (I sound like Elmer Fudd) I am doing just that.
In this post you wrote:
�Without God's love, I am nothing. Apart from Him, I can do nothing. I seek to lean upon His understanding in the Spirit, and not my own limited understanding in the flesh. My glory I seek not, but the greater good of God's, I'm truly desperate for.....like we all are.�
Very Pauline�very self-deprecating � if it were truly that, but in reality it is really another attempt at a scantily clad form of narcissistic egotistical self-aggrandizement.
Look back at all your posts Will and reread them�there is a �theme� to them.
I also know that by responding here I am feeding your ego and in effect �drawing attention� to you and your cause. Listen to your words:
�Thank you for taking an interest in me, but I'm not worthy of all the attention��
Do you not see how childish and immature it is to constantly say �thank you for showing me all this attention and interest and I will continue to keep trying to garnish it by showing and telling you about my learned skills and accomplishments and intelligence and how well read I am and how humble I am and I will do this incessantly; YET�I Am Not WORTHY of all this attention!
Will, can you not see this? You have the need to play the part of the lowly � humble � servant boy, who is still this highly intelligent, articulate, insightful, compassionate, strong leader that will show the village the way to the new promised land (only if they could learn to understand and Obey him).
A poor servant boy who is being persecuted by the village �prudes� who are threatened by his charisma and �charm� and obvious leadership abilities and if that servant boy could just �hang in there�, the village people will see the �Light� and rally to his side.
You have changed your tactical scheme and that tells me that you play chess. Well then�I see your Opening as a rather aggressive one�.say a Queen�s Gambit � which did not work because you underestimated the players you were up against. So you switched to a more distractive approach�say swinging your Knights out and trying to Castle your King�s Rook. This only made your position more exposed and open to close scrutiny and very predictable.
Will, I have you Check-Mated in just 8 moves. If you move to a Queen-side Irregular Defense, it will only delay the end by 2 or 3 moves.
What do you say Will, I see signs of you coming down to earth somewhat. You want to try this again? I�m all for that�.fresh start! No more Chess! How about Backgammon? Checker?.....Hearts?......Go Fish?
I understand where you are coming from. Thanks for your straightforward approach. I agree with many of the valid points you made. I did aplogize to Ole Cattle, but haven't heard back from him yet. I'm sorry to have offended you. As far as topics go, I'm an inquisitive person by nature. The theme you suggested, if anything, is coincidence. I like being able to discuss as accurately as possible the typcial A-Z topics you can find in your bible concordance. I can't change what you believe or don't believe about me. But, I have taken the necessary steps including prayer to resolve this.
I am aware that the tone has changed, and due in part to the time in prayer and God's Word that I have partaked in before these posts. When I said, "that I am not deserving of your attention", it was because you were were making me uncomfortable, very uncomfortable. I understand how you have been analzying every post, thread, word, intention, heartbeat and breath I take. I was politely trying to suggest if you could take a break for a spell. I didn't want to offend you. I know that you are easily offended. It was sincerely becoming uncomfortable, and considering you have never met me in person, you presume to know all of me well. I made that same mistake with Ole Cattle, but I respectfully apologized to the man. How I acted did no good. He hasn't emailed me back, but I took the necessary steps required to pursue peace with him. I have no self-pity for myself. But I understand that whatever words my mouth speak, you will never be satisified with them. I find it unnerving communicating with you at times in person or private. From Holy Spirit conviction, Without God's Love I am nothing. Apart from Him, I can do nothing. You were judging me on quoting scriptures that I use quite a bit. It gives all Christians a proper perspective, that God is God, and we are not, and when I depart from the boundaries that He sets forth, the flesh prevails, and negative things happen. And I don't understand why you were judging me on my responses to other people's responses to my threads. I was showing them consideration and respect for the interest and time they took to reply. Your message was complicated to keep up with. I tried my best to answer your questions, speculations, presumptions, and whatever else. Please give me an opportunity to breathe. I feel like you are stalking me, and intentionally trying to beat a brother down.
dear folks, i wanna say that i appreciate all the folks who came to my defence here on the forums. i cant tell anyone how much thats meant to me. in my ole heart..
eternal id already forgiven you before your apology.. but that was good of you to say so. my first answer back to you didnt do any good. so after that i dont believe in writing back in private.. itll usually only make matters worse..
so forgive me for not answering you back in private after that..
now folks i am a firm believer in second chances as ive been given a few myself.. specially when folks seem repentant.. so lets leave this all behind us now and allow eternal here to start all over again fresh with a new clean slate..
That sounds like a great plan. I was wondering if you were going to get back to me, and it's good to know that we can move forward, and beyond the mess, clutter, and garbage that will never bring Glory to God. I appreciate that you accepted the apology, and taking the time to make me aware of that. You should know by the words that I shared with you in private that they are real and sincere, and I appreciate you leaving them in your heart vs. a public display of manly emotion as you did with the previous private emails. I understand that it takes a sincere desire and sound doctrine to see through a higher order of communication, compassion, and understanding, and it looks like we are making the effort to drive down the same highway. Not all roads lead to Zion, but the eternal road we have decided to walk on will take us home. The road gets bumpy at times, but thanks to the grace of God, greater gains will be made, wounds will heal, and peace will be restored. We can consider this a growing experience.
We are of one mind and the body has corrected itself and is once again "Standing Tall".
Will, we need your veiws...and we encourage you to participate. You have a keen and trenchant mind and I look forward to your academic style of "stimulating" our minds.
I only ask that you bear in mind what some have said in their posts and replies.
Alright then!
Group HUG!
I have a joke****
One reason the Armed Services have trouble operating jointly is that they have very different meanings for the same terms;
**** The Joint Chiefs told the Navy to "secure a building," to which they responded by turning off the lights and locking the doors.
**** The Joint Chiefs then instructed The Marines to "secure the building," and they roared in destroying both front and rear doors and all windows and occupied the building so no one could enter.
**** Upon receiving the exact same order, the Army assaulted the building, captured it, and set up defenses with suppressive fire and amphibious assault vehicles, established reconnaissance and ambush positions and forward lookout points, resupply lines and HALO'ed inserted Green Berets to pacify the employees in the building and line dropped a Ranger unit to secire the rooftop; then communication channels were secured and Media Correspondents were embedded in each separate units. Finally all units began drilling and preparing for close hand-to-hand combat if the situation arose. The Commander on the ground immediately began calling for more troops and supplies and beer.
But the Air Force, on the other hand, acted most swiftly on the command, and took out a three-year lease with an option to buy.
