A pastor who burnt the Koran went to Detriot and ignored the cities choice of a place for him to speak against Islam.
I oppose islam, do not get me wrong here.However, this one Pastor from Florida decided to ignore the cities choice of a place and he went to the mosque to preach against islam.
What troubles me here is a loose cannon that likes to ignore parts of the law that he does not like. he was given a place to speak that was safe, however he decided to go to a place where he could cause trouble.
The first Amendment protects our rights and everybody elses.
I would be sorely offended to have a Muslim stand outside my church and start blasting my religion.They like me have the right to assemble at a distance that does not threaten my church. So, if we break the law then they will.
Yup ! Its a awful travesty to have done this...many people have mixed views on what has happened here...some [Think] the Pastor went Over Board...others [Think] he was in the Right...I agree with you Dennis...we are to Obey the Laws of Government...Jesus made that Perfectly Clear...When I was a New Baby Christian...I read Isaish...I felt Compelled to Preach to Jews...when I shared this, I was told by a Senior Pastor that GOD will open a door...just dont go to a Synagopuge and Preach...GOD did open the door...I preach on Line and at Messianic Gatherings by Invitation...xo
Our first amendment rights have nothing to do with stupid behavior. The amendment protects us from a government that would seek to silence and control our behavior but is not a licence to do as we please when and where we please.
There is no example in the ministry and life of Jesus that legitimizes this kind of behavior and I wonder why Christians don't make it clear to morons like this that their behavior will not be tolerated as long as the moron claims to either be a Christian or he continues to misrepresent our Lord.
This kind of public insult to Jesus is what molds the world's view of Jesus. As long as stupidity and hatred is the example they see what would possibly motivate them to ask about the hope that is within us?
1Pe 3:13 And who will be able to harm you, if you show yourselves zealous for that which is good?
1Pe 3:14 But even if you suffer for righteousness' sake, you are to be envied. So do not be alarmed by their threats, nor troubled;
1Pe 3:15 but in your hearts consecrate Christ as Lord, being always ready to make your defence to any one who asks from you a reason for the hope which you cherish.
1Pe 3:16 Yet argue modestly and cautiously, keeping your consciences free from guilt, so that, when you are spoken against, those who slander your good Christian lives may be put to shame.
1Pe 3:17 For it is better that you should suffer for doing right, if such be God's will, than for doing evil;
1Pe 3:18 because Christ also once for all died for sins, the innocent One for the guilty many, in order to bring us to God. He was put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit,
I haven�t followed what the pastor did, but I do have a little bit of training on constitutional law (a little bit). While the constitution does protect our right to free speech, it does not guarantee us the right to be heard. The pastor does not have the right to stand on the property of the Muslim mosque and speak out against it. The pastor does have the right to stand on public property, such as a sidewalk or street, and speak.
Cobbler Shared ~ "The pastor does have the right to stand on public property, such as a sidewalk or street, and speak."
*** Maybe were you live thats true & accepted...Maybe I should move there...I love standing on Corners & Freeway Off Ramps and Yelling REPENT !!! while handing out New Testaments while wearing a Sign that says...Well nevermind that part...:rolleyes:...
Anywho...I get Stopped quite a lot by Officals telling me to Move Along missy...You cant be doing that here..." Its illegal "...
Its Not but they make it Clear they dont like it & dont want me doing it...
OUR rights are being takenin away day by day...And Freedom of Speech & Religion is being Squashed...I dont Agree with what the Pastor did...BUT...its also Not my Place to Judge him...xo
There were so many things in this thread i found worthy of commenting on i finally decided to try putting them all in one reply and list each in the beginning.
Blessings to all,
Sky
Comments herein on:
1) Regarding judging the (hearts, thoughts and) actions of others
2) Regarding comments on The First Amendment
3) Regarding the "stupid behaviour" comments
4) Concluding remarks
1) Regarding judging the (hearts, thoughts and) actions of others:
We are not forbidden from judging, we certainly can, in point of fact, in time, we will judge even the angels. The caveat here is that we will be judged by the same standard we ourselves judge, not for salvations sake but with respect to retribution and recompense sake. Call it the difference between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law.
While God alone can grant grace or mercy, His ministers of wrath (judges) can either follow the letter of the law (retributional) or they can dispense (never grace) only mercy (spirit of the law).
We hear of saving up for rewards in heaven as opposed to those rewards we receive in the here and now; those future rewards are wrapped up in the judgment awaiting us, those in Chirist.
2) Regarding comments on The First Amendment:
We are instructed to guard even our very thoughts for it is in the mind where the true spiritual battlefield exists. For we must first conceive in our minds of a/n (evil) thing; then we must begin to give it life by speaking that evil and, finally, we do that thing we have concluded in our heart is evil and the doing then gives birth to sin. Think, speak and do.
Think, speak and do. Allowing us free will to think what we will allows us to believe thus choose our own path of faith. if we cannot speak that which we believe is just, good and true then we have no free will to exercise hence the protections must be in place to allow us to not only speak but also to practice what we believe, to do that which we believe is just, good and true for if we cannot do this then we exist in a state of anarchy.
It is interesting that the Founding Fathers saw fit to include this extreme core concept found throughout the bible and incorporate it into The First Amendment.
3) Regarding the "stupid behaviour" comments:
As Christians we are above the law not beyond it. And while the First Amendment's concept was originally designed by God forthe Chritians' benefit it follows through that all mankind as "all God's chillun" (ALL have God's spirit of life aka breath of life) benefit from this as well and in that sense the First Amendment actually retains that equality when, in fact, The Gospel, as we understand it, does not maintain any sense of equality (maybe fairness but certainly not equality) else there would be only one class of people not two, the saved and the unsaved.
Nonetheless, the issue of stupid behaviour goes much deeper for it involves directly contending with the spiritual forces of darkness. Nowhere are we commanded to go out and actively seek to do battle with the devil and his followers beit spiritual or physical. The issue here is not 'can' we but 'should' we. The answer to this, is, i believe, found in the teachings on turning the other cheek:
"If someone hits you on one cheek turn to him the other"�
Luke 17:3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
We can forgive him in our heart as well as before God but if he does not repent we cannot forgive him directly. I think the thrust here is the offender's heart, not ours, thus the focus is different, i.e. it is no longer on the offended.
Indeed, if we cannot let go (before God) then the sin is, in essence, passed on to us and festers and grows within us thereby separating us from God.
The Matthew 5:39 phrase, "resist not evil" is, I think, often too misunderstood, we were not created nor meant to be passive punching bags; "resist", in this context appears to have a meaning more on the line of 'destroy' and, more specifically, 'pull down', which implies an active opposition as compared to passivity (for clarity sake, think Hollywood and phrases like 'the underground resistance").
Also, 'evil', in the context used ("resist not evil"), means 'harmful thing working mischief, evil intent' which not only focuses in on what kind of evil... ...but also (the phrase, "resist not evil", itself) seems to be telling us where our true focus should be and, that, not on the evil, but on what is Godly for if we 'contend' with evil, i.e. seek to destroy and tear it down then not only is our focus off of what is Godly but also we have assumed the judicial response (vengeance is Mine saith The Lord) which is God's alone. For example, telling demons or evil thoughts (where the battleground truly is, in our mind and not with those around us) to depart is one thing, to actively seek out those within the confines of the demonic realm and to contend with them is not something we are instructed to do.
Even after we are saved we sin (indeed, perhaps even more so after salvation for we are more aware of it) countless times daily and if we can come countless times to The Master repenting and seeking (note the formula we are to follow with others) forgiveness knowing He will continually forgive us is, in this respect, the lesson behind the 'seventy times seven' and, also, the unjust steward...
35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
The phrase, from your hearts, seems to be telling us we must be willing to let go of our brother's trespasses, as used here, can mean either an unintentional error or a willful transgression.
However, and this throws even greater focus in, for it speaks of our brother, i.e. fellow servant, (the true audience was TO the Jews with secondary application TO those, later to be, in Christ) and not non-Jews or those of the unsaved in the world, and this seems confirmed in vs. 16-17 "two or three witnesses" and "tell it unto the church" and, yet, we are to treat the unsaved the same, at the least, from the heart.
The crux, as I see it, in understanding this "turn the other cheek" issue is neither passivity (beat me unendingly to a pulp) or aggressive (burn the witch!) but, rather, hidden within the Eleventh Commandment, "Thou shalt think dirty" contained within...
Matthew 10:16, "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves"...
...not that we should 'do' dirty but that we should be aware of the wiles and devices contained within The Evil One's world and, rather than resist (i.e. contend and 'war' with) its evil, instead, recognize, be prepared for it and avoid it and simply continue on through life without getting sidetracked thereby keeping our focus on Jesus and what is right and Godly and, if by chance along the way, and we will--time and time again--get burned then we just shrug (read: pray!) it off like nothing happened and continue on our, err�His...merry little way Home.
4) Concluding remarks
If the world hates you know that it hated Me first. All too often we get hung up becoming active participants when we should have just stayed out of it. Iit is one thing to go to a movie and watch the progression of events. It is quite another to leave the audience walking on stage and taking part in the plot. Better we stay off the stage and just watch "the movie".
We mus strive to keep in mind there is a greater ulterior plan in play that we often tend to lose sight of because of the all too numerous daily distractions placed in our way. There is little we can do to stop the degeneratively downward spirialling of human events leading ultimately to everythings, mankind included, destruction.
And all too often we find ourselves, for conscience sake, wanting to get involved in helping to save the earth, the poverty of our fellow man, whales, grapes, ozone, air and water pollution and so on leading to a pure, clean and green earth, nirvana and peace on earth and, from the Original Lie, finally, from a purely humanistic thought, the world eventually becomes "as gods", living forever.
Afterall, if the world cannot have their own brand of immortality then they, too, are as lost and hopeless feeling as we without Jesus Christ would be. So, while being good conservative, ecological and environmentally sound servants of the most high God is good it should never go overboard to the extent that we replace those worldly issues in place of our true charge and purpose, leading the unsaved to Jesus.
"...it does not guarantee us the right to be heard.
The pastor does have the right to stand on[...] a sidewalk]...] and speak
Yes, indeed.
What seems to be getting lost is the exercisor's rights stop when his speech becomes a disrupting nuisance, of which there are more than a few fanatical preachers around that lose focus by getting off on scaring folk by throwing blame and guilt trips of others pointing to theirfaults.
A man may be beat down for his sin but, in the end, he will be of the same opinion still for he will rationalize his perceptions as facts labeling them truth thus forming his own standard of relative right as opposed to God's universal truth.
I stated elsewhere the bible might be fair but it certainly did not adhere to our concept of equality.
The world would have us believe if we believe something is true then, for those, it is true. This negates, even destroys, the issue of guilt and sin. the unsaved's conscience nagged them until they rationalized a way around it.
When it comes to truth there can be no equality, there can be no democratic voice of the people determining what is right and what is wrong. But that is exactly what is happening today.
God says there is no equality while man (through the Supreme Courts) legislates equality's existence thus if someone sincerely believes something then that is tantamount to religious belief and is then protected.
The prisons are full of pridefully arrogant people who steadfastly maintain they, "had a right to kill that $oB." They could have avoided prison had they just not crossed that line becoming "disrupting nuisances".
The devil twists God's Truth into a sweet sounding lie. He was created the most powerful and beautiful creation ever. His appearance and his voice were perfect and beautiful. There is no fire breathing dragon with leathery red tights and forked tongue with long pointed tale. His song, as always, has remained the same and is, oh, so beautiful to our ears it is no wonder he is so deceptively misleading of man and angel alike.
