I've been going to the same church for almost 6 years already and it has been a marvelous place to be... until not long ago.
You see, since this new "prophet" arrived at our church and made himself very popular in a matter of weeks with his "prophecies," things have changed a lot, in a bad way. Besides a bunch of people now doubting their faith, me included, the church has now taken a more business-like kind of mindset.
With this I mean, they're now asking for up to four offerings a Sunday to help "rebuild" the church. They changed everything; the carpet, the walls, the pulpit, added a coffee shop and a library. Besides, now every Sunday they're running these "lunches" right after church. Of course, you have to pay.
They make a lot of money a month, six figures kind of money, but how is half a million dollars spent only on a carpet? Our choir doesn't get paid and I run the camera switch with my team every Sunday, and we don't get paid either.
An extremely good and beloved friend of mine, our youth pastor, had to leave the church with his family because he wasn't being paid enough to support himself. I was one of the few people he told this to, because he was asked not to tell anyone.
dear ac, dont let that even have a chance to waver your faith... keep your faith strong.. even if you need to change churches..
im no prophet , but this feller seems to be hung up in material things .. like havin the best lookin church for folks to come to.. appearances i mean..
i spect the good LORD would rather see all that money goin to helpin those in need than new carpet or whatnots.. i mean less the carpet was in shambles.. but i take it the way you said it was it was just to upgrade the appearance..
now a church does need operatin money.. for maintanance and bills and what nots..
i believe in titheing , and giving anything you wish to on top of that.. but when the church puts its wants in front of the peoples needs as in hard times like these the church shouldnt be beggin for more money other than tithes im speakin of,just to perfom a few upgrades.. less something was nesecery like more room or needed more to help those who are now out of work and all..
Acrozz: You are bringing up a very good concern. This concern, however, is not just limited to your church. Churches everywhere are moving towards this "business" style church. This is why I believe it's happening...
One church adapts a business style due to it's environment and surrounding people. They do this to try and "be all things to all people". I get that. Good. Then, other churches look at this church that is succeeding and think, "Well, I don't get it. What are they doing right that we're doing wrong?" As a result, they copy the "business" style church in hopes of raising numbers. There are three problems I can see here right off the bat...
1. We know more than God: A lot of churches nowadays are turning to people for help in the church instead of God. They assume, "WE can get more people to come if WE copy this church or do these things." WE aren't supposed to take this role. WE are supposed to put HIM in control. Too many churches are turning to their own solutions and are trying to do too much on their own. It's almost as if we don't need God anymore. Just a cafe... and a band... and some stained glass. If we have these things... people will come. This is one major problem.
2. The numbers game: This is a huge thing a lot of people fall into. Even I have fallen into this from time to time. The numbers game. "Let's just get as many people as we can to show up so that we can look successful." Success isn't about numbers, and it SURE isn't about US! We can't boast about anything, because it all belongs to God. He provides and guides us, so the glory should go to Him and Him alone. Churches see numbers as a sign of doing God's will. They usually forget about the condition of all these people... as long as they're coming. The focus should be on following and committing to God. Drawing near to Him. Loving Him. Then, people will come. Don't focus on the numbers to save some souls. Instead, focus on saving souls to get more to come.
3. There was a third point, but it is too much like the 1st and 2nd. So... yeah. 1 & 2. lol
I agree with Ole Cattle. Don't let this weaken your faith. Instead, take a step back, look into the scriptures, and determine for yourself whether this is right or wrong. Once you get the answer, Either stay at the church or find another. When we love God, we follow His commands (John 14:15). A good tree produces the fruits of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23). A faithful church will actively work out their faith (James 2:17). If you don't see these three things in your church, it is probably time to switch.
Please don't let this destroy your faith. If you do, then Satan has accomplished what he wanted to. Instead, realize that the Spirit that dwells within you has put an unease in your heart. Listen to Him. This, if anything, should make you stronger. My prayers will be with your church family.
I try not to get too woven into church "business" as I let those with a business mind handle business details, and that is not my strength. But I have a feeling my strength might be a little more like your strength, my Sister.
I am one to sit back and watch how things unfold, and recognize people for the beauty in the contributions of their hearts, for if their hearts are in the right place, so shall their wallets be.
But I have been in churches where how valuable you are to the church depends on how deep your pockets are, rather than how blessed you are in the Gifts the Lord has given you and the Joy in which you utilize them.
I have been in churches that practically stone parishioners that they should be lifting up and praying for because they have stumbled. I have seen churches that despite participating in two choirs, being a valued member of several committees and being an ordained deacon in their church, never once gave me a call to find out why I quit attending three years ago.
Perhaps they felt convicted when I called them on the spirit of dissension that they consistently allowed to dampen the spirit of the church. Things like, telling the mission committee that they are not allowed to discuss money (hello, mission committee, gives to the needy and hurting, let the people decide for themselves if they choose to give) or the choir can no longer use microphones for they are being to "showy" Showy?? Since when do you tell people to QUIT giving their finest unto the Lord??
Evidently you do this when your top contributors tell you they have an opinion and expect to to comply or they snap the purse shut.
From there you start relaxing the stand you have on sex being only for the marriage bed, and marriage being a sacred blessing between a man and a woman, and the day comes when church weddings between same sex couples are being performed in a church.
Lots of churches are either right there with this or well on their way to getting there soon.
When churches become businesses, rather than churches, they start to miss the heart of worship. That Choir director that is so gifted and needs lifting up and they cannot even see it for the business comes before the brother or sister that they cannot even see, for they are too busy looking at a big picture as they step on the fruit of the vines before them.
Ole Cattle is right, you may need to find another church. I have been to many a church with what feels to me to be an Un-Godly agenda, yet often the Lord used those churches to lead me to the right one where I am now.
I cannot imagine them not missing me if I just stopped going, and I am not involved in committees or choirs. If I am sick and miss church, the next Sunday my Pastor is asking me if everything is okay with me, and it is a genuine concern, and I feel truly missed, and I don't have a big purse for anyone to be concerned with. It is a church that recognizes that everyone has gifts and encourages everyone to grow in their gifts.
I have seen Miracles in this church, healings, and amazing things, for the Spirit of this Church seeks the Will of God and preaches the Word of God, and Chases after the Heart of God through Jesus Christ. It is a praying church and a loving church where ALL are welcome. If a dirty bum walks in and bleeds on the carpet, he's likely to get first aid and concern, and people that will listen and pray with him.
In my old church, I think he would have been gently redirected. I might however be wrong on the "gently" part.
Personally, I think it is important to express your concerns to the pastor before you make a decision. But only with the pastor and not with others in the church. If your concerns are well received and addressed, give them a chance. Be kind in how you phrase things, be tactful for you want this church to take wise council under advisement, and grow in their relationship with Christ.
Until all churches are churches of encouragement, and encourage even those that sound like the seagull on the little mermaid to "sing loud, sing proud, if God doesn't like it HE WILL CHANGE IT", until this is your church, refuse to settle for stained glass faith, that is more concerned about their image than whether or not all can be welcome.
I have been lucky since I got saved.I have attended one bad church.In 23 years I have gone to 3 churches.
The not so good church I attended 1 and half years.
Your church is where you get fed.I left a church because I felt it was not in gods will.They told me to sell things I
had and give it to the church.They were controlling,the pastor did not like my future wife with out meeting her.
This is all warning signs of problems.When someone new comes in and changes are made that is your call.
The church should be reaching out to unbelievers.I have visited churches when looking for a new church and heard a bogus prophcey.It was too good to be true.Then it never happened.
Sometimes a smaller church is best.You know everybody.That is my opinion.Advice find a church that gives to missions and not putting money on a showy look.Pride comes before a fall.:peace:
You are young yet.Do not get to upset.Find a nice church that fits you.Pray about it:prayingf: ok.Please let us know what you decide.Be at peace.:dancingp::peace:
acrozz maybe it is not doubting your faith but a inside warning light.Do not call this doubt, but caution.Try another church.For legal reasons all churches have to run like a bussiness.I have taken bible college classess.Pray and look up your answer in the word.:peace::prayingm:
It's wrong. Plain and simple. If they think spending money on a building is going to save people then something is wrong. A lot of things are wrong. If they think getting a person to walk in the church doors every week makes them christian...then they're wrong again. Anytime I see a church spending all that money on their building...I have to wonder...whats the point? The building isn't the church. God isn't coming back to save buildings. It's just firewood at the end anyway. He going to save people, and it's people we should be using our resources on. Sounds almost like a den of thieves to me.
So much wisdom in this thread Sister, all of which seems to come back to the heart of worship. Our church recently was blessed to move into a beautiful new building. Previously we had been meeting in a elementary school gymnasium. But it was the heart of worship that grew the church to the point we were able to afford our own facility. We were lucky that it is so beautiful. Another church vacated it for a need for more space. Again, the heart of worship growing another church. Sometimes renovations are necessary, but a church like everyone else, is taught to tithe and live within its means. I think there is a balance in all this but the point is truly that the church is not the building, but the people within, and I think people forget that. It is sort of reflective of us as people. Our bodies are a temporary abode for the thing that matters above all, our soul. Where the church building, like a young body, may appear to be strong and healthy, it can easily be struck down in the blink of an eye, but it is the heart of that worship that will carry forth to breathe life where it abides.
Pray about this and seek that heart of worship for when things change, it is often the Lord's way to move us on to someplace else where we need to be.
