I have been thinking of this for quite awhile because of how many people i know that either are gay/bisexual or support that lifestyle. i have seen/heard different arguments supporting/justifying this behaviour from both religious and non-religious people, and i find that many of these arguments are dangerous. i will mention the arguments that i can remember (p.s. i am not intending this as a hate post or anything like that, it is just stuff i have pondered).
-I cant help it i was born this way/I cant help it, God made me this way (didnt know how to fit this part in so ill put it here, i believe both that people are born that way, and that we can be "brainwashed"(for lack of a better word at the moment) into stuff, the whole nature vs. nurture thing)
i put these two together because they are the same argument, just one is generally used by athiests while the other is more of a religious argument, but then again ive heard both from athiests as well as religious people. i am pretty sure that we have all heard this argument to some degree or another. this argument is a fairly dangerous one because various people try to justify their behaviour by using this (examples include pedophiles, abusers, liars, theives, etc). one thing i have thought about is that if we start allowing the act of homosexuality because people where born that way, then why prevent stuff like beastiality or pedophilia because these people where born that way as well? i only as that because that argument can be made for all kinds of evil.
(and just as a heads up, i by no means support beastiality, necrophilia or pedophilia at all, i am just using them as examples)
-Jesus never said that homosexuality was wrong so it must be ok
there are variations of this argument, but they are all still wrong. Jesus also doesnt mention beastiality, necrophilia or pedophilia as being wrong either. so by using this argument to support the homosexual lifestyle, it can also be use to support the others. this argument is also presuming that Jesus really didnt condemn homosexuality. the writers of the gospels didnt record every little thing that Jesus ever said, if they did i am sure that each gospel by themselves would be almost as thick as the bible (i have no real idea, im just guessing on that one). so this could mean that either Jesus did say it and the gospel writers didnt bother writing it down because at the time homosexuality being wrong was a given, or Jesus really didnt say it for the same reason.
(as a side note here, as i did the quick search for the verses for the next one, i did find one in mark where Jesus does condemn homosexuality but it was only in 1 translation, it was mark 7:22 in the CPDV for anyone curious)
-the new testament doesnt say that homosexuality is wrong
this is straight up wrong because the new testament does mention it in a few places (1 timothy 1:10, 1 corinthians 6:9, jude 1:7, 2 corinthians 12:21, galatians 5:19, revelation 22:15, mark 7:22 (now granted some of these depend on translation) there are a few other references as well if i remember correctly, but didnt come up in the quick search i did)
anways, like i said i dont intend this as a hate post towards homosexuals, i am just posting this as a quick counter to some of the arguments for homosexuality behaviour that people make.
Presumably when he considered the mechanics of being homosexual!
I totally 'get' the love side of a same-sex relationship - it'd certainly be easier to relate to someone of the same sex than a member of the opposite, and possibly some of those relationships can go deeper than husband & wife, hence even married men hanging out together at the pub or fishing, and the women going to their whatever-it-is clubs where they do whatever it is they do. Bingo or knitting perhaps? And moaning about men. :nahnah: Jonathan and David showed this kind of bonding does exist and can be intimate in a way that you wouldn't be with your husband or wife, but there's no sexual element towards it.
Apostelle, excellent point. One thing I have noticed, even though I believe homosexuality is wrong, treating everyone with love and respect is how you become a good influence on people. Building up homosexuality like it's a "worse" sin than being unmerciful is hypocrisy. I see people getting way more upset over homosexuality than other more direct violations of God's law. That is worse than the act of homosexuality in my opinion, it's almost like a diversion. Straining out a gnat while swallowing a camel.
"Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more."
If Jesus did it, we should have the same mind. It's possible to condemn sin and yet still lovingly labor for a person's salvation.
I understand what you are saying, DHTM. I am not condemning homosexuals. I don't have that right, only our Father in Heaven has that ability.
However, if you saw a stranger about to step out into traffic would you not try to stop him/her? Would you not do everything in your power to prevent their death?
We are all sinful beings and my sins are no larger or smaller than another's sins. But I do everything in my power to prevent myself from sinning, and when I do, I ask for forgiveness.
There are more ways to attack someone than striking them. Even though the Constitution says that no laws are to be made concerning the free exercise of religion, Christians are being sued for now "cow-towing" to homosexuals. One example is the Christian baker who was sued for refusing to make a homosexual "couple" a wedding cake.
But you do not see thieves pushing to make theft legal. You do not see murderers pushing to make murder legal. You do not see rapists pushing to make rape legal. It wasn't that many years ago that homosexuality was illegal in the US. Even now, the majority of psychiatrists believe that homosexuality should still be listed as a mental illness because it meets the criteria of a mental illness. (The most serious of which determines if an 'illness" can cause mental and physical harm to the "patient" and others. Homosexuality meets this definition). Even though we live in a "secular" society, we do have sin laws and sin taxes, such as laws against pedophilia and beastiality and sin taxes on alcohol and cigarettes.
Unfortunately, we have allowed homosexuality to become morally and legally acceptable. To me, this is just another sign of the moral decay of the US.
We actually have some "Christians" who believe that, though homosexuality is condemned, homosexual "desire" is not a sin. Even though Jesus said that lusting in your heart is as bad as actually committing a physical sin.
Now do you understand why homosexuality provokes such a strong reaction?
No, I understand. I'm not in disagreement with you, I'm just pointing out that treating a homosexual like they're more evil because their sin is somehow worse than our own is a bigger problem than homosexuality is. They should be treated no different than any other sinner that we're trying to warn off the broad road to destruction. So, while we're trying to warn homosexuals of their sin, we also need to warn the unloving of theirs. I think the parable of the unmerciful servant applies here. The king was able to forgive the servant of all his debt, but not after the servant demonstrated an unmerciful attitude toward his neighbor's much smaller debt. When he did that, he was made to pay his own debt. Considering that our debt to Jesus is "death", we need to warn people to avoid unmercifulness.
I don't feel like anyone should need to show a bible verse that prohibits sex outside of marriage. The biblical principles are throughout the bible, and they're used as metaphor/analogy for many other principles. The weight of scripture is pretty overwhelming against pre-marital and extra-marital sex. I'm not saying that to be condemning in any way, it is simply the truth.
Jesus points out that divorce is not in God's plan for us(although it is allowed), and also reiterates the way that God wants "marriage" to work. Male and female joined together, inseparable. That also should be uncontested. "Marriage" is just the English word, but the spirit and principle are easily understood.
Mark 10
5And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept. 6But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. 7For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; 8And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. 9What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
