In a post earlier today, I was informed that a topic of mine in this forum (now on page 6) from last December was just now reported. To see the discussion regarding the report, you can go to this post: http://www.christiandatingforfree.com/forum/forum_details.php?topic_id=10756&forum_sub_cat_id=7&start=10. To see the original exotic dancing thread, you can go here: http://www.christiandatingforfree.com/forum/forum_details.php?topic_id=8100&forum_sub_cat_id=47&start=20.
I take all accusations against me seriously, and therefore want to clarify things as best as I can and offer any apologies that are necessary. Because the recent accusation against me was vague, I will have to do some assuming here. If anyone could more specifically express to me how they feel my post violates Scripture, please reply so that I can address your concerns.
As I stated in my previous post regarding astrology, I was away from CDFF for the first part of January. There was a death in my family on the first of January and then I was dealing with a serious medical issue. Because of those things, I was not here reading/replying to things. Once I did come back to CDFF, it was not here for long before deactivating my account, due to the harassment toward me by another member. So, while it was certainly not my intention to disregard comments left on that thread, I can see how it could have come across that way. I apologize for any misunderstanding or hurt feelings that resulted from that.
As I stated in my previous post regarding astrology, had I known about the issue sooner, I would have gladly addressed it sooner. My intention is not to sweep aside people's concerns with my behaviour.
Okay, so... here was the original post: "Do you think that it is wrong for an unmarried woman to learn such dances as bellydancing and pole dancing? Why, or why not?"
Once again, SilverFire captured my thoughts on the matter, so I'll go ahead and quote a portion of what he said:
"I don't think it's wrong at all. Pole dancing (and belly dancing) is just like drinking songs, if you think about it. Both can be used for good or ill; in fact the melody from drinking songs undergirded many of Charles Wesley's hymns. Likewise, pole dancing can be used by a wife to please her husband, and that sort of pleasing is pleasing to God.
"Will you use it if you practice it? Of course, and the objective to learning this is to use it for your husband's eyes. So again, I don't see anything wrong with it.
"We need to be very cautious of the kind of thinking that says 'forms cannot be redeemed.' That is, if evil people abuse something, that Christians are somehow unable to take the object or the action and use it for God's glory. This kind of thinking presumes that evil is more powerful than God."
I'm now going to clarify some things:
1. The question was prompted by the fact that I do bellydancing for weight loss (on-again-off-again). Many people have accused me of sinning for doing this, but have not stated the reason why. I was looking for some further insight into that.
2. When I do bellydancing for weight loss, it is in the privacy of my own home. I do it from an instructional DVD, and all the draperies are closed. No one has seen me do this and I have never danced for anyone.
3. I am not advocating that unmarried women perform exotic dances for men. I am not advocating that women who are married perform exotic dances for men they are not married to.
4. I am not aware of anywhere in the Bible that speaks against dancing. Does it speak against lust? Sure. Could dancing possibly cause lust or stem from lust? Sure. Did I ask if people should practice it lustfully? No. Did I joke about people who may have sinned in this area? No. Did I encourage people to practice it lustfully? No. In fact, in a later post of mine on the thread, I clarified my position of the importance of learning such things at home with a DVD v. going to certain places.
5. I only advocate the practice of ANYTHING (dancing, eating, having conversation) in a way that glorifies God. I am not suggesting here that anyone do otherwise. Can something such as bellydancing glorify God? Sure. It can glorify Him in two ways. The first is that we are supposed to respect our bodies as a temple of the Holy Spirit. Part of doing that is weight management, something that bellydancing (and other forms of dancing) are great for! Secondly, within marriage, such expressions are within God's plan for marital intimacy. It glories him when married couples are free with each other and are generous with one another in the bedroom.
Now, to address direct questions that came up in the original thread...
1. Dennis asked if the post was written to get a general opinion. Yes, it was written to better understand WHY Christians feel the way they do about the topic.
2. Dennis said, "It is improper to advertise such pics on a christian site as I saw a woman my age do. No I did not email her and tell her I oppose it. I am a man who does not know that woman." I'm honestly not sure what he is referring to here, so he will need to clarify this point in order for me to properly address it.
3. Dennis said, "Nor is it wise to advertise somebodies emails in public by displaying them." I agree! This post is my original words. If there was an email floating around here with those same words in it that it was merely coincidence.
4. Dennis's next post/series of questions on the thread appears to be directed toward SilverFire. He is no longer on this site and I can't speak for him.
5. Another poster said, "Exotic is exactly that, exotic. No-one needs help on how to be sexy, ever. Ladies, we have what a man wants, we don't need to use exercising our stuff as an excuse to make arousing a man something that is Godly. Christian women need to be Godly first...and then sexy for the man God has chosen us for. Not for any other person or instructor ever. Then for an unmarried woman to be shaking her body for arousal for marriage, ya right. Tell me another santa claus story plz." Respectfully, I disagree. I've heard of many married couples having an issue with just this very thing (the other person not being "sexy"). Also, while I understand that there may be some women who say that they're doing if for exercise as an excuse, that is not what I'm doing (as I hopefully clarified adequately above). I agree that it should not be done for persons other than one's spouse.
6. Dennis asked, "since so much evil comes with exotic dancing such as sex crimes why should we be doing that." I understand completely what you're saying here. I agree that we should not practice dancing in a way that is associated with a sex crime. I am not advocating that anyone do that. As I've said, my opinion (based upon Scripture) is that such things should be practiced within the privacy of one's home, not in public venues or in front of persons other than one's spouse. While I do appreciate your concern here, I will respectfully say that the argument is faulty... Over-the-counter medications have been associated with crimes, too. Does that mean all OTC drugs should be outlawed? I don't believe so.
Okay, that covers everything that I can think of and everything I noticed in the original topic that was addressed toward me. If anyone has any other concerns that have not been addressed here, please post and let me know so that I can address your concerns.
P.S. Unless someone posts something to the contrary, I can only assume that I've addressed everyone's concerns adequately, and that I have cleared myself of any supposed sinful motives in the original topic. So... if you still have concerns, POST! I cannot address people's concerns that I'm not aware of!
WHEN i WAS A TENAGER i WAS INLOVLED IN THE VAMPIRE/ occult thing and have made no false accusations here. I will take legal action if you do not stop pixy.this is no joke.Cdff has been informed.
As a Scripturalist Jew (we only regard the Tanakh (aka OT) as binding and reject Talmud and other 'commentaries' as being from Man, not God's authority, i.e. rabbinical Judaism which came about over 1,000 years after Moshe received Torah directly from God at Mt. Sinai.) a literal reading of God's 613 mitzvot (commandments, The Law) reveals no prohibition against any sort of dancing. That said, when those laws were given we didn't yet have the grinding, vertical lap dances we do today so maybe...:)
As to belly-dancing, pole-dancing, and other 'exotic' styles, I would say anything a person does to entice, arrouse, stimulate, or cause improper actions (read: God judges us for what we do, not what we think 99% of the time. the 1% being things like "Know He exists.") ...would perhaps be considered sinful by some. But if it's being done for exercise, and not in a public display causing men to become arroused, I don't see a sin.
The attire though probably breaks laws regarding modesty found both in Jewish Law as well as I know 1 Timothy 6 think it is (was raised Catholic-Methodist.)
353) No immodest contact that draws close to forbidden relations
Application to gentiles:
Required
Mandated punishment for violation:
From Heaven
Brief description:
For men and women not to engage in physical contact or immodest behavior, including hugging, kissing, flirting, etc., that could lead to forbidden relations. This applies to any male-female contact except between husband and wife, or between parents and their children � and even those contacts should generally not take place in public. The Bible condemns the immoral Egyptians and Canaanites of ancient times for such inappropriate behaviors, referring to them as �abominations.�
This commandment includes the requirements for men, and especially women, to dress and behave in all situations by strict rules of modesty. It is forbidden to arouse sexual attention from others, or to allow emotional bonds to develop where inappropriate.
Examples:
* For men and women not to shake hands or dance together.
* For a man and a woman not to go out on a date for any purpose other than serious discussion of marriage, and never to have a �boyfriend-girlfriend� relationship of any kind.
* For men not to wear shorts or go topless.
* For women not to wear pants, mini-skirts, short-sleeved tops, or other revealing or attention-drawing garments.
* For married women always to cover their hair in public (as, for example, with a wig), so that it cannot be seen.
* For a man and woman, who are not married to one another, not to be together in private at any time.
* For women not to work in close quarters together with men other than their husbands, at a job or elsewhere.
* For men and women to sit in separate sections during religious services or similar events.
Category:
Adultery Commandments
Biblical source(s) (Rambam): Lev. 18:6,19
Biblical source (Sefer HaChinuch): Lev. 18:6
8I wish, therefore, that men pray in every place, lifting up kind hands, apart from anger and reasoning;
9in like manner also the women, in becoming apparel, with modesty and sobriety to adorn themselves, not in braided hair, or gold, or pearls, or garments of great price,
10but -- which becometh women professing godly piety -- through good works.
the Song of Solomon has a reference to "exotic dancing" in it, great book on the Song"...'Intimacy Ignited". Probably not the best subject to write about, like asking single men about it. I would suggest you continue in you lessons, just not for the purpose of getting money out of men or to seduce men...that isn't real cool...exercise is exercise. I know of a married lady who is well into her 60's who goes down to the Senior center in Colorado Springs to learn "belly dancing', like for her husband...
Jeff and lovingcoman, pixy was asking in reference to pleasing her husband during those special nights in. She was learning in private from video tapes, and not doing it in public.
She just wanted to know if there was anything intrinsically wrong with belly dancing in and of itself. Obviously doing it in public is out of the question.
You the man Cobbler....let's pray she gets the book "intimacy ignited" there is some very sexy stuff in their for the married folks.....BUT..this is a site for singles, so perhaps in that you are in contact with her..well it might be best for her to leave the site, research things on her own, as in the Internet, Amazon...ect.
After all, personally my rate for marital counseling is in the 225 per hour arena..
