And any decent human being would do the same. I am fed up with people who claim the name of Jesus but have no trouble at all supporting conservative candidates. It makes Christ look bad and it must stop
Posted - "1) EVEN if i took an anatomy class this doesnt change the fact that the bible does no even come close to saying abortion is murder. And of course the fetus is part of the womans body lol where are u getting you info from you nutjob? Looks like youre the one who needs to take classes........... "
Nutjob? Nice Christ-like response for one who claims to know Him.
I'm a nurse. I have assisted with and witnessed childbirth, both cesarean and natural, as well as miscarriages. There is not one part of the woman's body that leaves during this process. The child is not part of her body [she wasn't created or born with it], but a separate individual. Its fingerprints aren't hers, its DNA isn't hers, its systems aren't hers, and neither are its fingers, toes, arms or legs. They are unique to that child. The child is delivered, the woman's body did not lose anything that makes up her physical being. On that, you will never be able to prove otherwise, so get over thinking that an unborn child is "part of the womans body".
Posted - "1) a baby or fetus or whatever is part of the womans body til it comes out. No doctor would disagree with that..."
Every doctor I have worked with would disagree with you, and personally, any doctor worth their title would disagree with you. In fact they'd call you the "nutjob". However, the doctors you might associate yourself with, also known as abortionists, would agree with you simply because it's easier to believe that than to have to admit that they killed an unborn child, an unborn human being, in a most gruesome fashion. It doesn't matter that it goes against their oath to do no harm... "I will give no deadly medicine to any one if asked, nor suggest any such counsel; and similarly I will not give a woman a pessary to cause an abortion."
Posted - "2) i dont need an excuse to seperate terms of murder. Since abortion is not murder this is simply unneccesary. But youre more than welcome to show me from scripture where it states that it is."
*sigh* I gave you Scripture. Your problem is that you want the word "abortion" in Scripture. Since it's not found in Scripture, it must mean that God condones it then, right? Forget that the penalty for causing death to an unborn child is the life of the one who caused it, because, yep, the word "abortion" isn't being used and therefore has no bearing on the verse, which must mean that abortion is okay with God.
Posted - "3) god values the life of the unborn as much as the born......really? Prove it. Oh wait you cant. I guess youre just gonna have to keepnyour republican nonsense out of my female friends bodies."
So now you are telling us that God's love is limited to only those who are living outside the womb? For God so loved the world, but not the unborn...? I suppose you'd have to believe that; just like believing the unborn child is part of a woman's body, in order to justify your belief that there is no worth in an unborn human being, neither to God or man, therefore destroying that unborn life is nothing more than having your tonsils removed.
You dehumanize life in the womb to justify your actions and beliefs.
"Every doctor I have worked with would disagree with you, and personally, any doctor worth their title would disagree with you. In fact they'd call you the "nutjob"."
This is what I find amazing. He doesn't even try to correctly represent the facts. He makes outlandish claims such as all doctors agree with him...that are so far from the truth, the almost make you wonder if he is trolling.
You saybyou gave me scripture showing where abortion is murder. Where is it? And the fetus/ baby cant survive without the mother. Good try though.
Come on guys. This aint that hard. If i told you it was ok to say use cuss words with gods name in it it all you would have to do is take me to where it says dont use gods name in vain. The argument would be over.
You cant produce anything in scripture even remotely concrete regarding abortion yet you wanna acuuse women who have one of murder. Also the passage in exodus 21 says a man shall be fined if he causes a woman a miscarriage but if there is injury to the woman he shall be punished with equal pain. Dont look to me like that fetus has the same legal prptections as the woman. Good try though neocon.
Again gimmie something concrete. That means gimmie a scripture that comes close to stating that abortion is murder. This scripture should be able to stand on its own without you inferring your own opinions and other additions to it.
Every sin i can think of is soundly and loudly and clearly refuted in the bible. But abortion isnt. You have no case. End of story.
Posted - "You saybyou gave me scripture showing where abortion is murder. Where is it? And the fetus/ baby cant survive without the mother. Good try though."
Nobody is arguing whether the child can survive without the mother, although advanced medical technology is keeping preterm babies alive at a younger age. But, since you acknowledge that babies can't survive outside the womb, why is it that you can't see that removing that child from its protective life source is not murder or killing, since doing so ends its life? Is it because it is "legal murder", aka, "abortion"? - Murder being the unlawful killing, with malice aforethought, of another human?
How about, "Thou shalt not kill"? Kill meaning, to put to death, to deprive of life? How is abortion not murder or killing? You have a woman who, with forethought or premeditated determination, decides to end the life of the child inside her. She deprives the child of life and puts him to death.
Have you ever looked at the methods of abortion? Have you ever seen what an aborted fetus looks like? There is no doubt it is a human being. Or have you ever seen an aborted fetus with detached body parts as a result of dismemberment in order to evacuate the child within? I think you should. In fact, I challenge you to do some homework in this area. Look at the dead fetuses that abortion has left behind. Look at the fetuses with detached heads and limbs. Look at the definition of each method of abortion. Then you come back here and tell me God says it's all cool because He didn't include the word "abortion" in His vocabulary when He spoke His Word declaring, "Thou shalt not kill". I dare you to.
Savesinchrist ive studied your side of the issue very closely. I used to be in your camp. The bible doesnt say thalt shall not kill butbrather thall shall not murder. Murder even by biblical standards has malice behind it. The prodedures used to committ abortion are another subject entirely.
Also 68% of abortions occur within the first few months. I have seen aborted fetuses in that stage and they look like a tiny yellow drop of sperm. Again good try though.
Posted - "Savesinchrist ive studied your side of the issue very closely. I used to be in your camp. The bible doesnt say thalt shall not kill butbrather thall shall not murder. Murder even by biblical standards has malice behind it. The prodedures used to committ abortion are another subject entirely."
Thou shalt not kill. - Exodus 20:13
The procedures used in abortion to kill the child within are the means by which you say it is perfectly okay to do this because God doesn't include the word "abortion" in His Word. So, no. Not another subject entirely. It's all part of ending the life.
Posted - "Also 68% of abortions occur within the first few months. I have seen aborted fetuses in that stage and they look like a tiny yellow drop of sperm. Again good try though."
If this wasn't so serious, I'd be . You haven't seen anything. I can tell you right now that a fetus at the time a woman knows shes pregnant is very identifiable as a human being.
You are correct in that most abortions take place in the first trimester of pregnancy. But let me share with you how that life is terminated...
Suction aspiration: This is the procedure most often used in the first trimester of pregnancy (the first three months). The abortionist inserts a suction tube (similar to a vacuum hose with an extremely sharp end) into the mother's womb. The suction and cutting edge dismember the baby while the hose sucks the body parts into a collection bottle.
Dilation and curettage (D&C): In this procedure, the abortionist uses a loop shaped knife to cut the baby into pieces and scrape the uterine wall. The baby's body parts are then removed and checked to make sure that no pieces were left in the mother's womb.
Kinda hard to determine whether a "tiny yellow drop of sperm" has body parts than can be dismembered, isn't it?
But lets don't just leave it at first trimester abortion... let's move on to further development...
Dilation and extraction (also known as D&X or partial-birth abortion): Used to kill babies well into the third trimester (as late as 32 weeks old), the abortionist reaches into the mother's womb, grabs the baby's feet with a forceps and pulls the baby out of the mother, except for the head. The abortionist then jams a pair of scissors into the back of the baby's head and spreads the scissors apart to make a hole in the baby's skull. The abortionist removes the scissors and sticks a suction tube into the skull to s-u-c-k the baby's brain out. The forceps are then used to crush the baby's head and the abortionist pulls the baby's body out the rest of the way.
Dilation and evacuation (D&E): This form of abortion is used to kill babies in the second trimester (24+ weeks). The abortionist uses a forceps to grab parts of the baby (arms and legs) and then tears the baby apart. The baby's head must be crushed in order to remove it because the skull bone has hardened by this stage in the baby's growth.
Hysterotomy: Performed in the third trimester, this is basically an abortive Cesarean section (C-section). The abortionist makes in an incision in the mother's abdomen and removes the baby. The baby is then either placed to the side to die or is killed by the abortionist or nurse.
Tell us all that this is not the killing of a human being. Tell us that this is okay with God. That you can stand before Him and say it's okay to terminate life in this way because He didn't use the word "abortion" in your Bible. Can you do that? Can you even answer those questions without conviction? You should be able to, since to you, it's no different than having a tonsillectomy. So c'mon, tell us it's okay; that it's okay with God. That the shed blood of the unborn goes unnoticed by God, doesn't mean squat to Him, because He doesn't use the term "abortion", thereby sees it as another day in the life of a woman and her abortionist.
These are all your own opinions and emotions and cannot be found in scripture. And yes i repeat a resounding YES the fact that abortion is not in the bible means ita not a sin. Period. I get my definition of sin from one place.....the bible. If the bible says something is a sin, then it is. If it dont, then its not. Its just that simple.
Also if youre so fed uo with abortion prodedures you should firmly support the pill. Abortion is not neccesary when the sperm and the egg are prevented from mixing in the first place. And by the way the idea that the baby is not part of the mother is ridiculous.
. You haven't seen anything. I can tell you right now that a fetus at the time a woman knows shes pregnant is very identifiable as a human being.