Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 2 Feb, 2012 11:28 PM
Thanks to a question about divorce and remarriage posted on another thread, I felt the need to address those on this site who may be suffering from the weight of guilt and condemnation heaped on them because of their reasons for divorce.
I wrote the following article, "The Stone Thrower", based on actual instances that happened on this site. If you are one of those who have been ostracized by others for having an "Unbiblical Divorce," please take the time to read. May it minister to your heart.
The Stone Thrower
I want to touch on a subject today that has long been regarded in Christendom as taboo . . . and that is . . . DIVORCE. Mention that word around some Christians and their hackles suddenly go up on the back of their neck. They pull out their proverbial stones ready to put to death anyone who they think has been un-biblically divorced. And to my shame, I was one of them�a stone thrower.
We all know the story of the woman caught in adultery in John 8:3-11. The scribes and Pharisees (the religious self-righteous) had arrested this woman and dragged her before Jesus. One has to wonder how these Pharisees caught such a woman "in the very act" of adultery. How convenient for them. It's amazing the depths of depravity the self-righteous will sink to in order to defend their religious arguments. Did they have the paparazzi spy on her to get some juicy pictures for the whole world to see?
At any rate, they dragged this poor woman in front of Jesus and proudly proclaimed, "Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?" (John 8:5)
Zowie!! These men can quote the Word of God . . . at least the parts that suit their fancy.
I like our Lord's reaction. "But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear" (John 8:6b).
Don't you just love it when someone ignores you . . . especially when you're trying to win an argument? But the self-righteous rarely lie down without a fight, and those religious Pharisees were determined to prove that they had the "truth." So they continued pestering Jesus, knowing that the Law of Moses was on their side. It's not a good idea to pester Jesus, especially when it comes to "pointing a finger" at someone.
"So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, 'He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.' And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. Then those who heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning from the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst" (John 8:7-9).
This introductory story of the woman caught in adultery has a purpose: I wanted you to have a glimpse of the mentality of a "stone thrower." They are usually self-righteous, ready to condemn, and can quote the Word of God. Ouch . . . I just described me.
I had a clear cut answer for the reasons one might give to justify divorce which I thought was quite Biblical. And in my mind, there was only one reason . . . "But I say to you, that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except for sexual immorality, causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery" (Matthew 5:32). There you have it�plain and simple. Who could argue with such a statement? It is the Word of God! I thought I had the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth . . . yet the truth is . . . I was ignorant of the ways of God. "For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment" (James 2:13).
And it was in my ignorance to God's ways that I threw stones at the divorced ladies on a Christian dating site some time ago. As a widower, I was on this site looking for a prospective wife. I was so appalled at the amount of women who were divorced on this site whose reasons for separating from their husbands did not match my view of scripture. In order to protect myself from these "contaminated souls," I purposely wrote something in my profile for those that I would consider as wife material: "You may be single, widowed, or divorced (must be for Biblical reasons only)."
When I would communicate with these divorced ladies, I would immediately ask them to provide details on the reason for their divorce. If they could not give me an answer of infidelity as the reason for their divorce, then I considered them unmarriageable. Yet God has a way of grabbing His child's attention when that child is in error.
One of the ladies on this dating site told me her story of divorce after I demanded it. Her husband was deep in bondage to pornography and had no interest whatsoever in repentance. The man had not physically hopped into bed with another woman, and so in my self-righteousness, I condemned the poor wife for wanting to opt out on the marriage. And the "stones" that I threw created fresh wounds in her heart while she recounted those painful memories of her husband's infidelity as he lusted after porn. According to Jesus' own words, her husband WAS GUILTY of adultery: "But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart" (Matthew 5:28). I ignored that scripture and concentrated only on Matthew 5:32. She lashed out at me, saying that she was glad Jesus did not condemn her even if I did. I have to admit, I was shaken by her story which moved me to tears.
Then there was another lady whom I demanded to give an account for her divorce. I threw "stones" at her as well when she could not give me a reason of infidelity for her separation. In bitter anger, she struck back at me, stating how her husband had broken her nose and physically abused her. I ignored the scripture which reads, "But God has called us to peace" (1 Corinthians 7:15b) and concentrated again on Matthew 5:32. However, her story bothered me very much just like the other woman's.
I began to seek God earnestly. These were only two of the many ladies who shared with me their heartbreaking stories of divorce. There were so many reasons given for divorce and none of them fell under sexual immorality (fornication) as I saw it. I sincerely asked the Lord to open my eyes. Was there any scriptural evidence to support these women's choices to opt out of a marriage other than infidelity? Yes, there was.
God led me to Matthew 19:3-12. The Pharisees were looking for a reason to trap Jesus in His words. Their previous scheme had not worked with the woman caught in adultery. However, if they could just get Jesus to say something contradictory to the Law of Moses, then they could brand Him as a heretic. So they asked Jesus this question, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?" (Matthew 19:3b)
Jesus' answer was, and still is, God's original intention for marriage: "Have you not read . . . the two shall become one flesh? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate" (Matthew 19:5b-6).
The Pharisees did not like His answer. For Jesus had taken them right back to Genesis before there ever was a Moses or a Law of Moses so that they could hear what GOD SAYS about marriage. Yet the stiff-necked Pharisees persisted with another question: "Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?" (Matthew 19:7)
Jesus responds, "Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so" (Matthew 19:8).
The self-righteous Pharisees were using the Law of Moses as an excuse to bail out on marriages for any flippant reason. And because of this, the Lord had some very strong words for them. "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery" (Matthew 19:9).
I can just hear the stone throwers shouting, "See, I told you . . . it's right there in the word . . . 'sexual immorality!'"
Wait a minute. Like Paul Harvey, let's hear "the rest of the story" before jumping to any conclusions. After verse 9 comes verse 10. Even Jesus' disciples, which would include us, were amazed at the words of Jesus. "His disciples said to Him, 'If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry'" (Matthew 19:10). Yeah, I can see their point. If sexual immorality (fornication) is the only reason for divorce, then perhaps we are better off not getting married.
But look at Jesus' response to his own disciples in verse 11. It stands to reason that if the disciples' statement was true, then Jesus would have said something to affirm it as such. He does not!
"But He said to them, 'All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given'" (Matthew 19:11).
What saying? The saying in verse 9 of course. NOT ALL can accept the saying that fornication is the ONLY reason for divorce.
Now notice that Jesus goes on to explain what He meant with the following verse:
"For there are eunuchs who were born thus from their mother's womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He who is able to accept it, let him accept it" (Matthew 19:12).
What did Jesus mean by this? He tells us that three different men all became eunuchs for different reasons. One was born a eunuch, another was made a eunuch by men, and still another made himself that way for the kingdom of heaven. They all became eunuchs for different reasons, but who is to say which eunuch is "God approved"? God accepted them all. That's the point!
Likewise, there are many reasons someone might seek a divorce: physical and verbal abuse from a spouse . . . being married to an unbeliever who makes life a literal hell . . . marital unfaithfulness . . . the stress of being married to an alcoholic for 23 years . . . or living with a pornographer who refuses to repent. Which one of these reasons for divorce is "God approved"? That's the point Jesus was making. Just as the eunuchs were acceptable to God regardless of how they became a eunuch, so also is a woman acceptable to God who seeks to be free from an abusive husband, even if infidelity is not involved. You and I cannot see in the heart of that abused person . . . but God can. For God has called them to peace.
And the church has done more harm counselling emotionally and physically battered women to stay in a relationship citing Matthew 5:32 "except for sexual immorality" as the only just cause for divorce. Women have actually committed suicide and murder under the stress of remaining in an abusive situation because their legalistic church counseled them to do so.
You may have heard of the case in the U.S. where a lady killed her husband (a pastor) who had been abusing her for years. God had called her to peace . . . but she never knew it, and one day she snapped. The evidence of abuse was so overwhelming that the courts found this woman not guilty of murder by reason of insanity.
I certainly do not want to imply that people should take their marriage so lightly as to divorce for every whim and fancy. I would not condone that, and neither does the Word of God. Every marriage will have its share of problems which can be worked out with God's help by two committed individuals. Yet there are some women, especially those suffering physical and mental abuse, who have reached the tipping point of no return; and the only thing they can do to preserve their sanity is to get out of that marriage. And ultimately, it is to the Lord they answer to, not you or me. He has called them to peace.
After God opened my eyes to the truth of scripture, I contacted those ladies on the dating site who I had thrown "stones" at and apologized profusely. I was truly grieved that I had been so self-righteous and blind, wounding those precious sisters for whom Christ died.
Now back to the story that I began with. The "stone throwers" had already dropped their rocks and left the scene with a guilty conscience, leaving Jesus alone with the adulterous woman.
"He said to her, 'Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?'"
"She said, 'No one, Lord.'"
"And Jesus said to her, 'Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more'" (John 8:10b-11).
HALLELUJAH�MERCY TRIUMPHS OVER JUDGMENT!!!
Blessings in Christ Jesus,
Paul Janz
(All Scripture quotations are taken from the Holy Bible, New King James Version.)
"The Stone Thrower" Copyright � 2010 by Paul Janz.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 4 Jun, 2012 08:38 AM
Singer4u says, "Paul and Goldenfaith both said in their writings on this forum that Yahushua broke Sabbath. That is impossible! You two should know better than that and to say it is total heresy."
heresy? . . .really? "Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said God was His Father" (John 5:18). According to the apostle John, who wrote that scripture under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit . . .Jesus broke the Sabbath.
I wonder, Singer4u, what justice should God mete out to you for misrepresenting Him with your statement above? Mercy or death by stoning?
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 4 Jun, 2012 09:59 PM
First off oh pauly boy. His name isn't god! Its Yahweh and even the history channel covered and got this one right! What measurement of punishment should he have for me quoting his word without adding or subtracting to it unlike you do. I believe I will get mercy for I haven't misrepresented anything . In fact quoted verbatum all scriptures pertaining. Wonder if you can say that oh all knowing paul who rights his own commentaries without considering the whole counsel of Yahweh! What punishment will he have for you for implying believers can marry again even if they commtted adultery????????? HUH paul? I would be worrying about you. You who says the pharisee's opinion about whether messiah kept Sabbatth is the standard used to judge messiah falsely! You who doesn't read and study properly but quotes their own rhetoric and backs down like a big coward from keeping Yahweh's word on all matters no matter what the costs!!!!!!
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 4 Jun, 2012 10:11 PM
Pharisees stick together like birds of a feather! John 5 vs 18 isnt the Holy Spirit speaking matter of factly all readers. Its the Holy Spirit telling us the mindset of the phariseees saying he broke Sabbath by healing people. Yahshuah himself said Its not sin to do good on the Sabbath and healing people was good.
IF YOU WANT TO FOLLOW THIS wise guy PAUL ON HERE WHO SAYS MESSIAH broke the sabbath ( meaning Messiah sinned! which is impossible) go for it. If the blind lead the blind they all fall in a ditch!!!!!!! Paul doesn't bother to test all things he beliefs only his own interpretations based on limited study of a point at hand. watch paul paste the same old rhetoric up time and again . He thinks his stone thrower thesis is the source of all truth. lol hahahahahaha what a card hahahahaah! Got to hand it to you paul. You are so predictable!
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 4 Jun, 2012 10:35 PM
Singer4u says, "Paul and Goldenfaith both said in their writings on this forum that Yahushua broke Sabbath. That is impossible! You two should know better than that and to say it is total heresy."
heresy? . . .really? "Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said God was His Father" (John 5:18). According to the apostle John, who wrote that scripture under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit . . .Jesus broke the Sabbath.
I wonder, Singer4u, what justice should God mete out to you for misrepresenting Him with your statement above? Mercy or death by stoning?
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 4 Jun, 2012 11:57 PM
See everybody same old rhetoric! I presented the truth here paul. Post your old tired interpretation again I will not respond to you anymore period! Watch him post again and be bored all.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 5 Jun, 2012 12:36 AM
Mark 6
11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 5 Jun, 2012 03:35 PM
Thank you Really_54 for this thread. Ironically, I went through a self study on the issue of divorce and remarriage during this the timing of this thread although I am just now reading through it.
Going through divorce for any reason is not something taken lightly and being judged/condemned on every hand by people who are legalists such as BobBobbins and Singer4u only compounds the pain.
I was saved by faith, not by works. I remain secure in my salvation even if I do sin as no one (not even me) can remove me from the hand of God.
The scriptures cited repeatedly by Bob and Singer are not all inclusive...I could provide a slew of references that show divorce and remarriage in the Bible...some already cited.
I am under grace, nor under the law...legalists should not limit the power and mercy of the God I serve.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 5 Jun, 2012 05:17 PM
Teach_ib
If a police officer stops you and tells you that you were speeding, do you tell him that he is a "legalist" and that you are under "grace"?
Any society without laws is a society without order. This would produce a scenario of anarchy. A scenario like this one in Judges 17: 6 In those days there was no king in Israel, but every man did that which was right in his own eyes.
Why does the Bible tell us to obey the civil law? Was the Apostle Paul a "legalist"? If, as Christians, we must obey the civil law, why then should we be excused from obeying the law/word of Yahweh?
Do you believe that any king rules a kingdom without law? Why then would you assert that the King of kings would expect any less of you then to follow the laws of His kingdom?
Does grace provide an ethical standard by which to live your life as a believer? Please prove your theory that grace can provide a day to day standard by which to discern right from wrong.
If not God's law, then who's law are you under? your own? Satans? Americas? I am very curious.
Over and over, I see ridiculous conclusions such as the one that you have drawn that you are some how free from keeping the commands of Yahweh. Jesus himself said " If ye love me, keep my commandments" John 14:15
Do you believe that Jesus taught different commandments than His Father in heaven?
Let me be clear - keeping the law of Yahweh makes one a lawful citizen of His kingdom. It does not make one a "legalist"
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 5 Jun, 2012 08:41 PM
Teach ib I must say this: I am not a legalist. That's what pharisees were and they added laws and rules that made it complicated to follow Yahweh!!! Legalists are those who press man's way and laws. However I do practice Torah with Yahweh and Torah with my neighbor. Being lawful in light of the 10 commandments which are forever!!!! Nothing legal about it! Yet lawful.
I hate you are going through a divorce however, our whole duty is to obey Yahweh at all costs!!! The scriptures does not say that you cant walk out of his hand. It implys no other may take you out! Yahweh will not break free will Deut chapter 2 proves that! We can rebel at any time. May we never. Also Teac ib somebody is going to qualify for those warning passages about no adultery between two believers. Woah to those who do qualify for Yahweh is serious about his 10 commandments and will in no way let them in his kingdom unless they repent scripturally or its revelation 21 vs 8 for them. If you and your mate are believers and no adultery has been committed you are under 1 Corrinthians 6 vs 7-11. You can live separate but you have to stay chaste or reconcile and the apostle Paul said that is Yahushua's command! Also you are under 1 Corrinthians 7 vs 38 and 39 and Romans 7 vs 2 and 3 all new testament as are all believers under these rules even while under grace. The one under the law is the one who offends in one point and is guilty of it all= the one who says they're not under it.
I have quoted alot of verses and there are many more. DISPROVE ME BY THE SCRIPTURES!!!! Go for it and give me a point by point refutation of scripture that I have given.
If I can be proven wrong by the scriptures i will concede, yet Teach ib I won't take your word for it! Only Yahweh's!
Many will be trying to convince thereselves that" hey I was saved what happened?" when Yahweh tells them to depart from him for being a worker of iniquity and go to hell then the lake of fire where there's repetition and torment and they will be trying to convince themselves while there too! We must obey Yahweh and prove we love him for he won't take our word for it. He gives commands and they are not optional to obey or not nor are they burdensome.! We must obey him or we will come up missing the mark every time. Nor can we cling to our own thoughts.
If you are going to prove me wrong you will have to study hard as I do all the time! 26 years consistantly. I suggest you read www.Eliyah.com and go down to Divorce and remarriage teaching. The best I ever seen and that many pastor's use.
