Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 2 Feb, 2012 11:28 PM
Thanks to a question about divorce and remarriage posted on another thread, I felt the need to address those on this site who may be suffering from the weight of guilt and condemnation heaped on them because of their reasons for divorce.
I wrote the following article, "The Stone Thrower", based on actual instances that happened on this site. If you are one of those who have been ostracized by others for having an "Unbiblical Divorce," please take the time to read. May it minister to your heart.
The Stone Thrower
I want to touch on a subject today that has long been regarded in Christendom as taboo . . . and that is . . . DIVORCE. Mention that word around some Christians and their hackles suddenly go up on the back of their neck. They pull out their proverbial stones ready to put to death anyone who they think has been un-biblically divorced. And to my shame, I was one of them�a stone thrower.
We all know the story of the woman caught in adultery in John 8:3-11. The scribes and Pharisees (the religious self-righteous) had arrested this woman and dragged her before Jesus. One has to wonder how these Pharisees caught such a woman "in the very act" of adultery. How convenient for them. It's amazing the depths of depravity the self-righteous will sink to in order to defend their religious arguments. Did they have the paparazzi spy on her to get some juicy pictures for the whole world to see?
At any rate, they dragged this poor woman in front of Jesus and proudly proclaimed, "Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?" (John 8:5)
Zowie!! These men can quote the Word of God . . . at least the parts that suit their fancy.
I like our Lord's reaction. "But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear" (John 8:6b).
Don't you just love it when someone ignores you . . . especially when you're trying to win an argument? But the self-righteous rarely lie down without a fight, and those religious Pharisees were determined to prove that they had the "truth." So they continued pestering Jesus, knowing that the Law of Moses was on their side. It's not a good idea to pester Jesus, especially when it comes to "pointing a finger" at someone.
"So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, 'He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.' And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. Then those who heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning from the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst" (John 8:7-9).
This introductory story of the woman caught in adultery has a purpose: I wanted you to have a glimpse of the mentality of a "stone thrower." They are usually self-righteous, ready to condemn, and can quote the Word of God. Ouch . . . I just described me.
I had a clear cut answer for the reasons one might give to justify divorce which I thought was quite Biblical. And in my mind, there was only one reason . . . "But I say to you, that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except for sexual immorality, causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery" (Matthew 5:32). There you have it�plain and simple. Who could argue with such a statement? It is the Word of God! I thought I had the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth . . . yet the truth is . . . I was ignorant of the ways of God. "For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment" (James 2:13).
And it was in my ignorance to God's ways that I threw stones at the divorced ladies on a Christian dating site some time ago. As a widower, I was on this site looking for a prospective wife. I was so appalled at the amount of women who were divorced on this site whose reasons for separating from their husbands did not match my view of scripture. In order to protect myself from these "contaminated souls," I purposely wrote something in my profile for those that I would consider as wife material: "You may be single, widowed, or divorced (must be for Biblical reasons only)."
When I would communicate with these divorced ladies, I would immediately ask them to provide details on the reason for their divorce. If they could not give me an answer of infidelity as the reason for their divorce, then I considered them unmarriageable. Yet God has a way of grabbing His child's attention when that child is in error.
One of the ladies on this dating site told me her story of divorce after I demanded it. Her husband was deep in bondage to pornography and had no interest whatsoever in repentance. The man had not physically hopped into bed with another woman, and so in my self-righteousness, I condemned the poor wife for wanting to opt out on the marriage. And the "stones" that I threw created fresh wounds in her heart while she recounted those painful memories of her husband's infidelity as he lusted after porn. According to Jesus' own words, her husband WAS GUILTY of adultery: "But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart" (Matthew 5:28). I ignored that scripture and concentrated only on Matthew 5:32. She lashed out at me, saying that she was glad Jesus did not condemn her even if I did. I have to admit, I was shaken by her story which moved me to tears.
Then there was another lady whom I demanded to give an account for her divorce. I threw "stones" at her as well when she could not give me a reason of infidelity for her separation. In bitter anger, she struck back at me, stating how her husband had broken her nose and physically abused her. I ignored the scripture which reads, "But God has called us to peace" (1 Corinthians 7:15b) and concentrated again on Matthew 5:32. However, her story bothered me very much just like the other woman's.
I began to seek God earnestly. These were only two of the many ladies who shared with me their heartbreaking stories of divorce. There were so many reasons given for divorce and none of them fell under sexual immorality (fornication) as I saw it. I sincerely asked the Lord to open my eyes. Was there any scriptural evidence to support these women's choices to opt out of a marriage other than infidelity? Yes, there was.
God led me to Matthew 19:3-12. The Pharisees were looking for a reason to trap Jesus in His words. Their previous scheme had not worked with the woman caught in adultery. However, if they could just get Jesus to say something contradictory to the Law of Moses, then they could brand Him as a heretic. So they asked Jesus this question, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?" (Matthew 19:3b)
Jesus' answer was, and still is, God's original intention for marriage: "Have you not read . . . the two shall become one flesh? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate" (Matthew 19:5b-6).
The Pharisees did not like His answer. For Jesus had taken them right back to Genesis before there ever was a Moses or a Law of Moses so that they could hear what GOD SAYS about marriage. Yet the stiff-necked Pharisees persisted with another question: "Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?" (Matthew 19:7)
Jesus responds, "Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so" (Matthew 19:8).
The self-righteous Pharisees were using the Law of Moses as an excuse to bail out on marriages for any flippant reason. And because of this, the Lord had some very strong words for them. "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery" (Matthew 19:9).
I can just hear the stone throwers shouting, "See, I told you . . . it's right there in the word . . . 'sexual immorality!'"
Wait a minute. Like Paul Harvey, let's hear "the rest of the story" before jumping to any conclusions. After verse 9 comes verse 10. Even Jesus' disciples, which would include us, were amazed at the words of Jesus. "His disciples said to Him, 'If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry'" (Matthew 19:10). Yeah, I can see their point. If sexual immorality (fornication) is the only reason for divorce, then perhaps we are better off not getting married.
But look at Jesus' response to his own disciples in verse 11. It stands to reason that if the disciples' statement was true, then Jesus would have said something to affirm it as such. He does not!
"But He said to them, 'All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given'" (Matthew 19:11).
What saying? The saying in verse 9 of course. NOT ALL can accept the saying that fornication is the ONLY reason for divorce.
Now notice that Jesus goes on to explain what He meant with the following verse:
"For there are eunuchs who were born thus from their mother's womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He who is able to accept it, let him accept it" (Matthew 19:12).
What did Jesus mean by this? He tells us that three different men all became eunuchs for different reasons. One was born a eunuch, another was made a eunuch by men, and still another made himself that way for the kingdom of heaven. They all became eunuchs for different reasons, but who is to say which eunuch is "God approved"? God accepted them all. That's the point!
Likewise, there are many reasons someone might seek a divorce: physical and verbal abuse from a spouse . . . being married to an unbeliever who makes life a literal hell . . . marital unfaithfulness . . . the stress of being married to an alcoholic for 23 years . . . or living with a pornographer who refuses to repent. Which one of these reasons for divorce is "God approved"? That's the point Jesus was making. Just as the eunuchs were acceptable to God regardless of how they became a eunuch, so also is a woman acceptable to God who seeks to be free from an abusive husband, even if infidelity is not involved. You and I cannot see in the heart of that abused person . . . but God can. For God has called them to peace.
And the church has done more harm counselling emotionally and physically battered women to stay in a relationship citing Matthew 5:32 "except for sexual immorality" as the only just cause for divorce. Women have actually committed suicide and murder under the stress of remaining in an abusive situation because their legalistic church counseled them to do so.
You may have heard of the case in the U.S. where a lady killed her husband (a pastor) who had been abusing her for years. God had called her to peace . . . but she never knew it, and one day she snapped. The evidence of abuse was so overwhelming that the courts found this woman not guilty of murder by reason of insanity.
I certainly do not want to imply that people should take their marriage so lightly as to divorce for every whim and fancy. I would not condone that, and neither does the Word of God. Every marriage will have its share of problems which can be worked out with God's help by two committed individuals. Yet there are some women, especially those suffering physical and mental abuse, who have reached the tipping point of no return; and the only thing they can do to preserve their sanity is to get out of that marriage. And ultimately, it is to the Lord they answer to, not you or me. He has called them to peace.
After God opened my eyes to the truth of scripture, I contacted those ladies on the dating site who I had thrown "stones" at and apologized profusely. I was truly grieved that I had been so self-righteous and blind, wounding those precious sisters for whom Christ died.
Now back to the story that I began with. The "stone throwers" had already dropped their rocks and left the scene with a guilty conscience, leaving Jesus alone with the adulterous woman.
"He said to her, 'Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?'"
"She said, 'No one, Lord.'"
"And Jesus said to her, 'Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more'" (John 8:10b-11).
HALLELUJAH�MERCY TRIUMPHS OVER JUDGMENT!!!
Blessings in Christ Jesus,
Paul Janz
(All Scripture quotations are taken from the Holy Bible, New King James Version.)
"The Stone Thrower" Copyright � 2010 by Paul Janz.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 26 Nov, 2013 07:43 PM
Teach, that's a deflection from the point at hand. The verses clearly says Moses allowed divorce for the hardness of men's hearts. It doesn't say Messiah did. Divorce isn't part of the law??? The 10 commandments are the law....... Divorce is an allowance. Also I pointed out in earlier posts when a woman gets a divorce decree put in her hand she goes and becomes another man's wife it doesn't say she has permission to do this. The word may is not in the scrolls there that was added by the translators into english. In fact Messiah was basically saying Moses is dead and I say to you I won't allow it except for adultery/fornication. Which He said only for the innocent party.
The trouble with those that try to remarry unscripturally is they quote the Old Testament but don't want to hear it any other time or they say legalist. Yet the NT gives no permission to the the guilty to remarry. There's no permission in the OT it's just assumed.
This is the problem with OSAS type believers. WHy even bother to obey what Messiah said since you believe you are going to heaven anyway? What real penalty will they face if they don't obey? Yet somebody is going to qualify for Revelation 21 vs 8 when these warnings addressing believers were given and also 1 Corrinthians 4 vs 7-11 arns the same. It's a salvation issue despite what traditionally handed down beliefs say. Tradition nullifies the word of Yahweh making it of no effect.! Yahweh will never tolerate this type of attitude saying they can and doing when he says they can't. ROMANS 1 warns of this in its entirety. Rebels won't be in the kingdom. That's why in the NT he warns many times about going on in a willful sin. A person who breaks covenant with Yahweh and Yahushua in rebellion(ongoing willful sin) can quote all the verses they want but they will be told to depart from him to be with the devil and his angels. Will grace be removed??? If someone is counted a worker of iniquity=reprobate concerning the faith= doing what they want rather than commanded. Serious business. I don't believe it's worth the risk!!!!!!! I encourage anyone who divorced their fellow believing mate to research thoroughly this serious matter before believing any denomination's teaching that says other her than hat Yahweh commands in the NT !!!
I would pray and sincerely ask Yahweh if this is possible and re-examine the warning passages. They have to be factored in to salvation teaching to since we are to endure til the (end of our lives) to be saved.....
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 26 Nov, 2013 08:27 PM
Marriage is not a command either.
Do you really think that Moses just made up the divorce decree? None of the punishments or directions given in the Old or New testaments would have been necessary except for the hardness of the heart...sin.
Neither Paul nor I have stated that everyone who divorces can remarry. In fact, Paul gave an example of what he thought was an unbiblical divorce and broke off discussion with lady.
I have stated that there are those who can not Biblically remarry.
The point of the OP, again, was to suggest people stop treating all people who are divorced as some would have treated a leper. And that is what I agreed with.
Yet, that point has been lost, trampled on, and disregarded.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 26 Nov, 2013 09:56 PM
Teach, I would like you to set aside your hostility for me and read what I am writing to you here. Please read it and try to understand it. I am simply stating some facts here. It is not meant to be an attack.
Teach said, "Going through divorce for any reason is not something taken lightly and being judged/condemned on every hand by people who are legalists such as BobBobbins and Singer4u only compounds the pain."
Teach, you know what's interesting? When you jumped into this thread, neither Singer nor I had judged or condemned people who are divorced. That was never the point that he or I was trying to make. So, you either did not comprehend what we had posted or you were simply in a hurry to throw stones at two strangers who were simply trying to point out that the OP draws faulty conclusions and suffers from misunderstanding and bad exegesis.
Your opening salvo was both a judgment and a condemnation against both Singer and me. In addition, as I have now pointed out a few times, you also threw the stone of a "legalist" at us improperly. Both myself and Singer are advocating that the commandments need to be kept - not as a means of justification but out of obedience to God. It's a serious matter and not to be regarded lightly.
Teach, you said, "The point of the OP, again, was to suggest people stop treating all people who are divorced as some would have treated a leper. And that is what I agreed with.
Yet, that point has been lost, trampled on, and disregarded."
Perhaps so, however, the OP itself goes much further than just making the overarching point. In doing so, he errs in many of the details. At least for me, that has been what I have attempted to correct for the benefit of all who would read the OP and draw faulty conclusion as I can see some were doing early on.
In closing, I still don't think to this day that either myself or Singer has ever said or implied that those who are divorced should be automatically condemned or treated as lepers. At least for me, that has never been my point.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 26 Nov, 2013 10:30 PM
Let's look at something else. Again, no personal attacks intended here.
"Neither Paul nor I have stated that everyone who divorces can remarry. In fact, Paul gave an example of what he thought was an unbiblical divorce and broke off discussion with lady."
Paul cannot draw arbitrary lines based on his own judgment. This has been one of the central points that I have tried to make. Paul's thoughts don't matter, nor do mine. We must endeavor to uncover what God's thoughts are on the matter and conform to those.
When any person deviates from the letter of God's law, they are forced to create their own law. We substitute God's authority for our own authority. Said another way, we make ourselves, "like gods determining good and evil" Here's an example, if the speed limit is 55 but I decide that the speed limit is not 55, then I must decide next what I believe the speed limit should be according to my own judgement. The letter of the law says 55. If I drive 56, I am breaking the law.
Further, the spirit of the law says, if I even rebel against the law in my heart, I have already violated that law. Far from loosening the requirement of the letter of the law, the spirit of the law tightens the laws requirements. Study the Sermon on the Mount and you will see Jesus make this point again and again.
The Pharisees were good at adhering to the letter of the law while omitting the weightier matters of the law - the spirit of the law. They were also good at adding to and taking away from the law. Thus they were the true legalists.
Now, let's examine another very fundamental point. It's widely held and agreed that a person is free to remarry provided that they have a Biblical divorce. So, then the question to answer is, "what constitutes a Biblical divorce?" Let's examine what Paul (The OP) says about this,
"Likewise, there are many reasons someone might seek a divorce: physical and verbal abuse from a spouse . . . being married to an unbeliever who makes life a literal hell . . . marital unfaithfulness . . . the stress of being married to an alcoholic for 23 years . . . or living with a pornographer who refuses to repent. Which one of these reasons for divorce is "God approved"? That's the point Jesus was making. Just as the eunuchs were acceptable to God regardless of how they became a eunuch, so also is a woman acceptable to God who seeks to be free from an abusive husband, even if infidelity is not involved. You and I cannot see in the heart of that abused person . . . but God can. For God has called them to peace." ......."who is to say which eunuch is "God approved"? God accepted them all. That's the point!"
Here is a critical error, "even if infidelity is not involved". The OP clearly states that according to Matt 19, God approves and accepts people who divorce for "many reasons". If that's the case, all of those people would be free to remarry w/out committing adultery. However, that is simply not true. It is not Biblical. The faulty reasoning and exegesis lead to erroneous conclusions. These erroneous conclusions lead to sinful permissions. It's a very serious matter and not to be regarded lightly. This has been one of the points that Singer and I keep trying to make. Isn't just evil and hateful that he and I would go to such extremes to try to prevent people from entering into adulterous marriages? Thank God that you and Paul have so vehemently opposed and condemned us, eh?
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 27 Nov, 2013 12:34 PM
IWA is correct I only wish to protect not condemn. I don't want anyone to go to hell. Yet it's a reality! I give warnings so that people can see truth to make a decision rather than assume denominationally handed down traditional teachings. (WHich usually are in error) We have to study for ourselves for we can't count on nobody else but the Holy Spirit to show us into all truth.
Sorry about the earlier typo's .........................
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 27 Nov, 2013 03:01 PM
After trying diligently to absorb this incredible thread of biblical and experiential posts, I have a simple question which I believe that believers here maybe able to shed some light upon for me:
If a divorce was done, for unbiblical reasons, between to un-believers and one then becomes a believer, can he or she biblically remarry?
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 27 Nov, 2013 04:47 PM
HJMP,
First, sorry that you had to wade through such a difficult thread. Unfortunately, this topic has unearthed some less than charitable dialogue on both sides. That's regrettable but it goes to the severity and complex nature of the discussion.
On to your question. This is actually a difficult question. There are sound arguments both for and against such a marriage. Some would argue that once a person has been born again all of their prior sins are covered. They are a "new creature". Therefore, free to marry Biblically now as a believer.
Another argument would be an appeal to verses like Rom 4:15 "Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression" or James 4:17, "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin." In short, the argument goes something like, "it wasn't a sin b/c the unbeliever didn't know any better." They didn't have the law to guide them. (I don't share that conclusion, by the way. )
It seems clear to me that nonbelievers are held responsible to the same laws of God as believers. In other words, the law of God is binding over all of creation. The Jews were said to have held this advantage over the Gentiles, that they had been given the oracles of God. (Rom 3:1-2). However, the gentiles (heathen) were still transgressing the laws of God, whether they knew it or not. And it's clear throughout history that they have been judged accordingly.
Then, there is also the question of whether that person who becomes a believer following a divorce should first seek to reconcile their marriage even if it would be to an unbelieving spouse. (if they have both remained single, of course). This seems like a legitimate question that should be answered. As this does not pertain to me, I have never spent the time to answer it myself)
To be clear, if the former spouse is deceased even in the case of an unbiblical divorce, the believer is free to remarry. (Rom 7:1-3, 1 Cor. 7:39)
For myself, I would err on the side of caution. That is, unless God clearly revealed to me that I had permission to marry a woman who had been divorced as an unbeliever, I would not personally do so. I personally would seek a person who has never been married or who is clearly free to remarry. As for the divorced person, my counsel would be to diligently seek to God's word before making a decision to remarry. If they believe that they can do so with a clear conscience before God, then that would be between them and God. Whatsoever is NOT of faith is sin. (Rom. 14:23)
Sadly HJMP, we live in an age where it can be said, "there is no fear of God before their eyes". As a result, divorces are rampant even in "Christian" circles. This has not always been the case throughout history. Likely, even in your parents or grandparents generation, divorce was simply unacceptable believer or not. Today, lawlessness abounds in the secular world and antinomianism is the flavor of the day in the churches. However, this is no grant or license to sin. We won't be able to argue our case based on "culturally accepted norms" or "sitting in the wrong pews on Sunday". Rather, God will judge us by His standard.
Hopefully, Brother Singer will have some additional thoughts and Scripture to offer.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 27 Nov, 2013 06:57 PM
IWA...thank you for that in depth response....which leaves me with one additional question:
If the unbelieving spouse remarried(though I do know if they were deceased, it would be permitted), could then the believing divorcee, remarry biblically?
***Sorry for my inquisitiveness!!! But this has become very important of an issue, that's been discussed tirelessly amount friends and family over a long period of time! I do however have always believed that getting guidance directly from The Father, will never steer one wrong(smile)!*****
