Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 2 Feb, 2012 11:28 PM
Thanks to a question about divorce and remarriage posted on another thread, I felt the need to address those on this site who may be suffering from the weight of guilt and condemnation heaped on them because of their reasons for divorce.
I wrote the following article, "The Stone Thrower", based on actual instances that happened on this site. If you are one of those who have been ostracized by others for having an "Unbiblical Divorce," please take the time to read. May it minister to your heart.
The Stone Thrower
I want to touch on a subject today that has long been regarded in Christendom as taboo . . . and that is . . . DIVORCE. Mention that word around some Christians and their hackles suddenly go up on the back of their neck. They pull out their proverbial stones ready to put to death anyone who they think has been un-biblically divorced. And to my shame, I was one of them�a stone thrower.
We all know the story of the woman caught in adultery in John 8:3-11. The scribes and Pharisees (the religious self-righteous) had arrested this woman and dragged her before Jesus. One has to wonder how these Pharisees caught such a woman "in the very act" of adultery. How convenient for them. It's amazing the depths of depravity the self-righteous will sink to in order to defend their religious arguments. Did they have the paparazzi spy on her to get some juicy pictures for the whole world to see?
At any rate, they dragged this poor woman in front of Jesus and proudly proclaimed, "Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?" (John 8:5)
Zowie!! These men can quote the Word of God . . . at least the parts that suit their fancy.
I like our Lord's reaction. "But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear" (John 8:6b).
Don't you just love it when someone ignores you . . . especially when you're trying to win an argument? But the self-righteous rarely lie down without a fight, and those religious Pharisees were determined to prove that they had the "truth." So they continued pestering Jesus, knowing that the Law of Moses was on their side. It's not a good idea to pester Jesus, especially when it comes to "pointing a finger" at someone.
"So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, 'He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.' And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. Then those who heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning from the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst" (John 8:7-9).
This introductory story of the woman caught in adultery has a purpose: I wanted you to have a glimpse of the mentality of a "stone thrower." They are usually self-righteous, ready to condemn, and can quote the Word of God. Ouch . . . I just described me.
I had a clear cut answer for the reasons one might give to justify divorce which I thought was quite Biblical. And in my mind, there was only one reason . . . "But I say to you, that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except for sexual immorality, causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery" (Matthew 5:32). There you have it�plain and simple. Who could argue with such a statement? It is the Word of God! I thought I had the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth . . . yet the truth is . . . I was ignorant of the ways of God. "For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment" (James 2:13).
And it was in my ignorance to God's ways that I threw stones at the divorced ladies on a Christian dating site some time ago. As a widower, I was on this site looking for a prospective wife. I was so appalled at the amount of women who were divorced on this site whose reasons for separating from their husbands did not match my view of scripture. In order to protect myself from these "contaminated souls," I purposely wrote something in my profile for those that I would consider as wife material: "You may be single, widowed, or divorced (must be for Biblical reasons only)."
When I would communicate with these divorced ladies, I would immediately ask them to provide details on the reason for their divorce. If they could not give me an answer of infidelity as the reason for their divorce, then I considered them unmarriageable. Yet God has a way of grabbing His child's attention when that child is in error.
One of the ladies on this dating site told me her story of divorce after I demanded it. Her husband was deep in bondage to pornography and had no interest whatsoever in repentance. The man had not physically hopped into bed with another woman, and so in my self-righteousness, I condemned the poor wife for wanting to opt out on the marriage. And the "stones" that I threw created fresh wounds in her heart while she recounted those painful memories of her husband's infidelity as he lusted after porn. According to Jesus' own words, her husband WAS GUILTY of adultery: "But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart" (Matthew 5:28). I ignored that scripture and concentrated only on Matthew 5:32. She lashed out at me, saying that she was glad Jesus did not condemn her even if I did. I have to admit, I was shaken by her story which moved me to tears.
Then there was another lady whom I demanded to give an account for her divorce. I threw "stones" at her as well when she could not give me a reason of infidelity for her separation. In bitter anger, she struck back at me, stating how her husband had broken her nose and physically abused her. I ignored the scripture which reads, "But God has called us to peace" (1 Corinthians 7:15b) and concentrated again on Matthew 5:32. However, her story bothered me very much just like the other woman's.
I began to seek God earnestly. These were only two of the many ladies who shared with me their heartbreaking stories of divorce. There were so many reasons given for divorce and none of them fell under sexual immorality (fornication) as I saw it. I sincerely asked the Lord to open my eyes. Was there any scriptural evidence to support these women's choices to opt out of a marriage other than infidelity? Yes, there was.
God led me to Matthew 19:3-12. The Pharisees were looking for a reason to trap Jesus in His words. Their previous scheme had not worked with the woman caught in adultery. However, if they could just get Jesus to say something contradictory to the Law of Moses, then they could brand Him as a heretic. So they asked Jesus this question, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?" (Matthew 19:3b)
Jesus' answer was, and still is, God's original intention for marriage: "Have you not read . . . the two shall become one flesh? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate" (Matthew 19:5b-6).
The Pharisees did not like His answer. For Jesus had taken them right back to Genesis before there ever was a Moses or a Law of Moses so that they could hear what GOD SAYS about marriage. Yet the stiff-necked Pharisees persisted with another question: "Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?" (Matthew 19:7)
Jesus responds, "Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so" (Matthew 19:8).
The self-righteous Pharisees were using the Law of Moses as an excuse to bail out on marriages for any flippant reason. And because of this, the Lord had some very strong words for them. "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery" (Matthew 19:9).
I can just hear the stone throwers shouting, "See, I told you . . . it's right there in the word . . . 'sexual immorality!'"
Wait a minute. Like Paul Harvey, let's hear "the rest of the story" before jumping to any conclusions. After verse 9 comes verse 10. Even Jesus' disciples, which would include us, were amazed at the words of Jesus. "His disciples said to Him, 'If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry'" (Matthew 19:10). Yeah, I can see their point. If sexual immorality (fornication) is the only reason for divorce, then perhaps we are better off not getting married.
But look at Jesus' response to his own disciples in verse 11. It stands to reason that if the disciples' statement was true, then Jesus would have said something to affirm it as such. He does not!
"But He said to them, 'All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given'" (Matthew 19:11).
What saying? The saying in verse 9 of course. NOT ALL can accept the saying that fornication is the ONLY reason for divorce.
Now notice that Jesus goes on to explain what He meant with the following verse:
"For there are eunuchs who were born thus from their mother's womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He who is able to accept it, let him accept it" (Matthew 19:12).
What did Jesus mean by this? He tells us that three different men all became eunuchs for different reasons. One was born a eunuch, another was made a eunuch by men, and still another made himself that way for the kingdom of heaven. They all became eunuchs for different reasons, but who is to say which eunuch is "God approved"? God accepted them all. That's the point!
Likewise, there are many reasons someone might seek a divorce: physical and verbal abuse from a spouse . . . being married to an unbeliever who makes life a literal hell . . . marital unfaithfulness . . . the stress of being married to an alcoholic for 23 years . . . or living with a pornographer who refuses to repent. Which one of these reasons for divorce is "God approved"? That's the point Jesus was making. Just as the eunuchs were acceptable to God regardless of how they became a eunuch, so also is a woman acceptable to God who seeks to be free from an abusive husband, even if infidelity is not involved. You and I cannot see in the heart of that abused person . . . but God can. For God has called them to peace.
And the church has done more harm counselling emotionally and physically battered women to stay in a relationship citing Matthew 5:32 "except for sexual immorality" as the only just cause for divorce. Women have actually committed suicide and murder under the stress of remaining in an abusive situation because their legalistic church counseled them to do so.
You may have heard of the case in the U.S. where a lady killed her husband (a pastor) who had been abusing her for years. God had called her to peace . . . but she never knew it, and one day she snapped. The evidence of abuse was so overwhelming that the courts found this woman not guilty of murder by reason of insanity.
I certainly do not want to imply that people should take their marriage so lightly as to divorce for every whim and fancy. I would not condone that, and neither does the Word of God. Every marriage will have its share of problems which can be worked out with God's help by two committed individuals. Yet there are some women, especially those suffering physical and mental abuse, who have reached the tipping point of no return; and the only thing they can do to preserve their sanity is to get out of that marriage. And ultimately, it is to the Lord they answer to, not you or me. He has called them to peace.
After God opened my eyes to the truth of scripture, I contacted those ladies on the dating site who I had thrown "stones" at and apologized profusely. I was truly grieved that I had been so self-righteous and blind, wounding those precious sisters for whom Christ died.
Now back to the story that I began with. The "stone throwers" had already dropped their rocks and left the scene with a guilty conscience, leaving Jesus alone with the adulterous woman.
"He said to her, 'Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?'"
"She said, 'No one, Lord.'"
"And Jesus said to her, 'Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more'" (John 8:10b-11).
HALLELUJAH�MERCY TRIUMPHS OVER JUDGMENT!!!
Blessings in Christ Jesus,
Paul Janz
(All Scripture quotations are taken from the Holy Bible, New King James Version.)
"The Stone Thrower" Copyright � 2010 by Paul Janz.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 24 Nov, 2013 05:13 PM
If at first (and second) you don't succeed...........
25 I tried to understand, examine, and comprehend the role of wisdom in the scheme of things,and to understand the stupidity of wickedness and the insanity of folly.
26 I discovered this: More bitter than death is the kind of woman who is like a hunter�s snare; her heart is like a hunter�s net and her hands are like prison chains. The man who pleases God escapes her, but the sinner is captured by her.
27 The Teacher says: I discovered this while trying to discover the scheme of things, item by item.
28 What I have continually sought, I have not found;
I have found only one upright man among a thousand,
but I have not found one upright woman among all of them.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 24 Nov, 2013 06:03 PM
I have not lied nor misrepresented myself on this thread or any other thread. If you disagree with the explanations I clearly state are mine and not Scripture that is your choice. How you disagree and present your disagreement is inappropriate for a person who claims he is a Christian.
The Bible is clear on how we are to interact with others, be they brother, sister, or enemy.
I will continue to post Scripture and allow those who read to discern the truth. It is not my words, your words, or any other mere human's words that really make a difference. Feel free to badger me to apologize but I have not lied about or to you.
If you are offended by the Scriptures I post, then your issue is with God, not me. This is not the only thread you have presented a critical attitude towards posting of Scripture.
This is still a Christian website, so Christians should be glad to see Scripture whether they like what it says or not. I much prefer reading Scripture than any man's or woman's interpretation.
"Scripture is Truth...human interpretation of Scripture is not equivalent to the Truth.
If someone posts a verse from the Bible, they have cited the Truth. How one interprets it can make it into something other than the truth.
How we respond to others that we agree or disagree with shows the Autry of the spirit in us. As Christians we should strive to display the fruits of the Holy Spirit even to those who are not in alignment with your interpretation.
Yelling, screaming, ranting, raving, never achieves the goal of persuading someone that you are right. Christians should try to live as Romans 12 describes...and strive to love peaceably with all."
"The argument now is over the speck instead of the overarching issue of the OP...we do not have to completely dissect every word of every verse to understand the truth.
Is divorce allowed? yes.
Is remarriage allowed? Yes, if the divorce is Biblical.
We shouldn't automatically dismiss pr treat someone badly because they were divorced, which is often the case in many churches and by many individuals...no matter the cause of the divorce.
We should be slow to judge and careful with our words and action towards others. When we condemn others we are really condemning ourselves...we are all guilty of some sin, big or small...so we are in reality guilty of them all.
Thankfully God is a forgiving and merciful God, standing ready to forgive us.
"So BobBobbins/IWA or whoever you are, you have ZERO credibility as you have been caught in lies in your identity which makes one question most everything you write other than pure Scripture....and I would look every verse up that you cite for accuracy.
The discussion is over the treatment of people who have been married and their marriage ended in divorce.
Even in your responses Bob/IWA you contradict yourself stating divorce is forbidden based on God hating divorce and then state that Jesus said one could divorce for Biblical reasons. Yes, God hates divorce because divorce is caused by sin. There are Biblical grounds for divorce. No, divorce is not commanded any more than marriage is commanded.
Since we are all guilty of sin, big or small...and lying is a sin, too...we are considered guilty of them all.
We should be careful in how we judge others or condemn for any sin, that is the point of this thread. By jumping to conclusions about people, we often make judgments about them before we have all the facts. One of the points of the stone throwing example Christ gave has to do as much with those who were so quick to judge someone caught in obvious sin that they ignored their own sins."
"I have not lied nor misrepresented myself on this thread or any other thread. If you disagree with the explanations I clearly state are mine and not Scripture that is your choice. How you disagree and present your disagreement is inappropriate for a person who claims he is a Christian.
The Bible is clear on how we are to interact with others, be they brother, sister, or enemy.
I will continue to post Scripture and allow those who read to discern the truth. It is not my words, your words, or any other mere human's words that really make a difference. Feel free to badger me to apologize but I have not lied about or to you.
If you are offended by the Scriptures I post, then your issue is with God, not me. This is not the only thread you have presented a critical attitude towards posting of Scripture.
This is still a Christian website, so Christians should be glad to see Scripture whether they like what it says or not. I much prefer reading Scripture than any man's or woman's interpretation."
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 24 Nov, 2013 06:53 PM
Teach, Just to let you know of one of the verses you posted is a warning passage Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. ning passage.
The word corruption is actually suppose to be eternal death since it is the anti-thesis of the topic eternal life. That is a watered down mistake or trick of the translators. Bible scholars agree on this fact. Check it out.
That's why when it's quoted I have seen people say well I will experience not being blessed in this life for living in sin because the word corruption is there. Yet they don't bother to investigate the actual verse in the Hebrew or Greek. Just posting for accuracy's sake.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 24 Nov, 2013 07:18 PM
Teach,
I do not care if you post the entire KJV. It is NOT going to excuse your shameful actions in this thread.
Here is your FALSE WITNESS:
"Teach said, "So BobBobbins/IWA or whoever you are, you have ZERO credibility as you have been caught in lies in your identity which makes one question most everything you write other than pure Scriptute....and I would look every verse up that you cite for accuracy."
Now Teach claims, "You were caught because on other posts you have denied your identity. Jude has pointed it out on other threads. I suspected it; however, it was not until you posted when I ''met" you when you revealed what Juds has pointed out many times. "
Yes, I am aware that Jude has made it her mission to "out me" as though I had been trying to hide from something or someone. It's very easy to identify me because I have consistently used the same profiles stats. In addition, I am sure most of the regular forum members are familiar with my writing style and theological positions. Again, none of this is news. When I returned, I received emails from other members welcoming me back. How did they know who I was, Teach? Do the math.
So Teach, please point to all those threads where I have denied my identity. Still waiting.
This is NOT going away this time Teach as it has all of the other times. I am fed up with yours and Judes perpetual attacks on my character. I am demanding a full retraction and a public apology for your false witness against me.
-------
This is how Teach always avoids taking responsibility for her actions. --- posting mountains of Scripture. Again Teach, please feel free to cut and paste the entire KJV. It will NOT change any of the facts. Anyone who falls for your charade is a fool.
Folks, you are witnessing people so lacking in basic integrity and character that they have no problem bearing false witness against someone and then taking no responsibility whatsoever for their actions when they are called out for it. In addition, they continue to deflect and make up fantasy statements to draw attention away from the truth of what they have done.
Here are is a total fantasy statement, ". If you disagree with the explanations I clearly state are mine and not Scripture that is your choice"
Somebody please tell me what this has to do with anything that I have been saying to her? Anyone?
Here is another delusional statement, "If you are offended by the Scriptures I post, then your issue is with God, not me. This is not the only thread you have presented a critical attitude towards posting of Scripture."
NO TEACH, I AM OFFENDED BY YOUR ACTIONS. God's word never offends me. Your violating of it and misuse of it offends me.
"This is still a Christian website, so Christians should be glad to see Scripture whether they like what it says or not. I much prefer reading Scripture than any man's or woman's interpretation. " Again, a wonderful platitude that has nothing to do with anything that has been addressed to you.
What planet does this person live on? Earth to Teach, you can blow all the smoke that you want but when it clears you are still faced with the issue at hand. It''s not going away this time.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 24 Nov, 2013 07:26 PM
All sin is not equal !!! That's a misguided lie handed down to us. Idolatry is the worst sin and Messiah Yahushua said it himself. It means to have other gods... It matches the 1st commandment: Thou shalt have no other gods before me........
Messiah also said:
The greatest commandment was to love Yahweh with all our heart, mind, spirit, soul, body, being and the next commandment was 2nd to it (not as important as the 1st) loving our neighbor as ourself. We are to love Yahweh even more than our neighbor.
Idolatry and adultery have the same Hebrew word and are interchangeable.
I encourage all to check me on this...............
Also to offend in 1 point is to be guilty of all the law. True....... But what does that mean? Since the law was fulfilled and not done away with COULD IT MEAN??? The one who says there not under it is the one guilty of it all! It's better to stay in Yahushua who kept the law for us and not be spat out and counted as a reprobate. Inside him we are covered by his blood. Get outside him and no longer under the blood and you are judged according to your works by the law. Something to consider...................Possibilities go beyond what we are taught or handed down.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 24 Nov, 2013 07:34 PM
IWA, it doesn't have anything to do with the truths you post or where you accurately explain them. The proof against you lying is not specific and not detailed enough as proof for me or the others to accept their claim. They have to provide more than so and so said on other posts to actually posting those posts.
Jude , provide your other forum posts here of the lies so we can settle this please................
Otherwise, teach and paul it's speculation or actually false accusation if not specifically documented.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 24 Nov, 2013 07:41 PM
Singer,
Yes, of course it's not because they are bearing false witness. They have no evidence to produce.
They believe that the people here on the forum are too stupid to see through all the games that they are playing. They are simply trying to manipulate the forum members with all of the distractions. It shows NO respect for others at all.
I wonder why it's so difficult for three "mature Christians" to humble themselves and apologize for their wrong doings? It should be clear to everyone that this would be the best course of action for each of them to take. Yet, they don't even show the same level of character and integrity as many of the heathen that I know. What does that say for them?
