Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 2 Feb, 2012 11:28 PM
Thanks to a question about divorce and remarriage posted on another thread, I felt the need to address those on this site who may be suffering from the weight of guilt and condemnation heaped on them because of their reasons for divorce.
I wrote the following article, "The Stone Thrower", based on actual instances that happened on this site. If you are one of those who have been ostracized by others for having an "Unbiblical Divorce," please take the time to read. May it minister to your heart.
The Stone Thrower
I want to touch on a subject today that has long been regarded in Christendom as taboo . . . and that is . . . DIVORCE. Mention that word around some Christians and their hackles suddenly go up on the back of their neck. They pull out their proverbial stones ready to put to death anyone who they think has been un-biblically divorced. And to my shame, I was one of them�a stone thrower.
We all know the story of the woman caught in adultery in John 8:3-11. The scribes and Pharisees (the religious self-righteous) had arrested this woman and dragged her before Jesus. One has to wonder how these Pharisees caught such a woman "in the very act" of adultery. How convenient for them. It's amazing the depths of depravity the self-righteous will sink to in order to defend their religious arguments. Did they have the paparazzi spy on her to get some juicy pictures for the whole world to see?
At any rate, they dragged this poor woman in front of Jesus and proudly proclaimed, "Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?" (John 8:5)
Zowie!! These men can quote the Word of God . . . at least the parts that suit their fancy.
I like our Lord's reaction. "But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear" (John 8:6b).
Don't you just love it when someone ignores you . . . especially when you're trying to win an argument? But the self-righteous rarely lie down without a fight, and those religious Pharisees were determined to prove that they had the "truth." So they continued pestering Jesus, knowing that the Law of Moses was on their side. It's not a good idea to pester Jesus, especially when it comes to "pointing a finger" at someone.
"So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, 'He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.' And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. Then those who heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning from the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst" (John 8:7-9).
This introductory story of the woman caught in adultery has a purpose: I wanted you to have a glimpse of the mentality of a "stone thrower." They are usually self-righteous, ready to condemn, and can quote the Word of God. Ouch . . . I just described me.
I had a clear cut answer for the reasons one might give to justify divorce which I thought was quite Biblical. And in my mind, there was only one reason . . . "But I say to you, that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except for sexual immorality, causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery" (Matthew 5:32). There you have it�plain and simple. Who could argue with such a statement? It is the Word of God! I thought I had the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth . . . yet the truth is . . . I was ignorant of the ways of God. "For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment" (James 2:13).
And it was in my ignorance to God's ways that I threw stones at the divorced ladies on a Christian dating site some time ago. As a widower, I was on this site looking for a prospective wife. I was so appalled at the amount of women who were divorced on this site whose reasons for separating from their husbands did not match my view of scripture. In order to protect myself from these "contaminated souls," I purposely wrote something in my profile for those that I would consider as wife material: "You may be single, widowed, or divorced (must be for Biblical reasons only)."
When I would communicate with these divorced ladies, I would immediately ask them to provide details on the reason for their divorce. If they could not give me an answer of infidelity as the reason for their divorce, then I considered them unmarriageable. Yet God has a way of grabbing His child's attention when that child is in error.
One of the ladies on this dating site told me her story of divorce after I demanded it. Her husband was deep in bondage to pornography and had no interest whatsoever in repentance. The man had not physically hopped into bed with another woman, and so in my self-righteousness, I condemned the poor wife for wanting to opt out on the marriage. And the "stones" that I threw created fresh wounds in her heart while she recounted those painful memories of her husband's infidelity as he lusted after porn. According to Jesus' own words, her husband WAS GUILTY of adultery: "But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart" (Matthew 5:28). I ignored that scripture and concentrated only on Matthew 5:32. She lashed out at me, saying that she was glad Jesus did not condemn her even if I did. I have to admit, I was shaken by her story which moved me to tears.
Then there was another lady whom I demanded to give an account for her divorce. I threw "stones" at her as well when she could not give me a reason of infidelity for her separation. In bitter anger, she struck back at me, stating how her husband had broken her nose and physically abused her. I ignored the scripture which reads, "But God has called us to peace" (1 Corinthians 7:15b) and concentrated again on Matthew 5:32. However, her story bothered me very much just like the other woman's.
I began to seek God earnestly. These were only two of the many ladies who shared with me their heartbreaking stories of divorce. There were so many reasons given for divorce and none of them fell under sexual immorality (fornication) as I saw it. I sincerely asked the Lord to open my eyes. Was there any scriptural evidence to support these women's choices to opt out of a marriage other than infidelity? Yes, there was.
God led me to Matthew 19:3-12. The Pharisees were looking for a reason to trap Jesus in His words. Their previous scheme had not worked with the woman caught in adultery. However, if they could just get Jesus to say something contradictory to the Law of Moses, then they could brand Him as a heretic. So they asked Jesus this question, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?" (Matthew 19:3b)
Jesus' answer was, and still is, God's original intention for marriage: "Have you not read . . . the two shall become one flesh? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate" (Matthew 19:5b-6).
The Pharisees did not like His answer. For Jesus had taken them right back to Genesis before there ever was a Moses or a Law of Moses so that they could hear what GOD SAYS about marriage. Yet the stiff-necked Pharisees persisted with another question: "Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?" (Matthew 19:7)
Jesus responds, "Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so" (Matthew 19:8).
The self-righteous Pharisees were using the Law of Moses as an excuse to bail out on marriages for any flippant reason. And because of this, the Lord had some very strong words for them. "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery" (Matthew 19:9).
I can just hear the stone throwers shouting, "See, I told you . . . it's right there in the word . . . 'sexual immorality!'"
Wait a minute. Like Paul Harvey, let's hear "the rest of the story" before jumping to any conclusions. After verse 9 comes verse 10. Even Jesus' disciples, which would include us, were amazed at the words of Jesus. "His disciples said to Him, 'If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry'" (Matthew 19:10). Yeah, I can see their point. If sexual immorality (fornication) is the only reason for divorce, then perhaps we are better off not getting married.
But look at Jesus' response to his own disciples in verse 11. It stands to reason that if the disciples' statement was true, then Jesus would have said something to affirm it as such. He does not!
"But He said to them, 'All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given'" (Matthew 19:11).
What saying? The saying in verse 9 of course. NOT ALL can accept the saying that fornication is the ONLY reason for divorce.
Now notice that Jesus goes on to explain what He meant with the following verse:
"For there are eunuchs who were born thus from their mother's womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He who is able to accept it, let him accept it" (Matthew 19:12).
What did Jesus mean by this? He tells us that three different men all became eunuchs for different reasons. One was born a eunuch, another was made a eunuch by men, and still another made himself that way for the kingdom of heaven. They all became eunuchs for different reasons, but who is to say which eunuch is "God approved"? God accepted them all. That's the point!
Likewise, there are many reasons someone might seek a divorce: physical and verbal abuse from a spouse . . . being married to an unbeliever who makes life a literal hell . . . marital unfaithfulness . . . the stress of being married to an alcoholic for 23 years . . . or living with a pornographer who refuses to repent. Which one of these reasons for divorce is "God approved"? That's the point Jesus was making. Just as the eunuchs were acceptable to God regardless of how they became a eunuch, so also is a woman acceptable to God who seeks to be free from an abusive husband, even if infidelity is not involved. You and I cannot see in the heart of that abused person . . . but God can. For God has called them to peace.
And the church has done more harm counselling emotionally and physically battered women to stay in a relationship citing Matthew 5:32 "except for sexual immorality" as the only just cause for divorce. Women have actually committed suicide and murder under the stress of remaining in an abusive situation because their legalistic church counseled them to do so.
You may have heard of the case in the U.S. where a lady killed her husband (a pastor) who had been abusing her for years. God had called her to peace . . . but she never knew it, and one day she snapped. The evidence of abuse was so overwhelming that the courts found this woman not guilty of murder by reason of insanity.
I certainly do not want to imply that people should take their marriage so lightly as to divorce for every whim and fancy. I would not condone that, and neither does the Word of God. Every marriage will have its share of problems which can be worked out with God's help by two committed individuals. Yet there are some women, especially those suffering physical and mental abuse, who have reached the tipping point of no return; and the only thing they can do to preserve their sanity is to get out of that marriage. And ultimately, it is to the Lord they answer to, not you or me. He has called them to peace.
After God opened my eyes to the truth of scripture, I contacted those ladies on the dating site who I had thrown "stones" at and apologized profusely. I was truly grieved that I had been so self-righteous and blind, wounding those precious sisters for whom Christ died.
Now back to the story that I began with. The "stone throwers" had already dropped their rocks and left the scene with a guilty conscience, leaving Jesus alone with the adulterous woman.
"He said to her, 'Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?'"
"She said, 'No one, Lord.'"
"And Jesus said to her, 'Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more'" (John 8:10b-11).
HALLELUJAH�MERCY TRIUMPHS OVER JUDGMENT!!!
Blessings in Christ Jesus,
Paul Janz
(All Scripture quotations are taken from the Holy Bible, New King James Version.)
"The Stone Thrower" Copyright � 2010 by Paul Janz.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 19 Nov, 2013 01:53 PM
And to support my repeated statement: "I am under grace, not under the law...legalists should not limit the power and mercy of the God I serve.". Here are the references to Scripture that support that statement:
Hebrews 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.�
John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Romans 4:14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.�
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.�
20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound.�But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:�
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.�
Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.�
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 19 Nov, 2013 02:05 PM
While I was researching this thread, I came across one of your posts in response to my reference to 'women teaching men' since you accused me of picking an schooling which verses to obey...
Thread: Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 7 Jun, 2012 01:13 PM
�By BobBobbins: AKA I Walk Alone as identified in a post earlier today, 19 Nov 2013
"Teach_ib,�
Once again, you "gathered" wrong. You bring preconceived ideas to bear and then answer to the boogie man that isn't even there. One could easily term this as "baggage".
If you want to make your point. You would be better served to first ask what my position is on a matter. I have no problem with a woman reading and studying the Bible. In fact, I encourage women to do this all of the time. The Bible is clear on women teaching men in the church gathering. Draw your own conclusions and do with the teaching whatever you wish.�
Is there any further reason for a back and forth dialogue between you and I?"
****
So based on your posts on multiple other threads, I actually assessed you correctly on this point as you have vehemently bashed me for teaching men on threads. �We are known by our fruits...
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 19 Nov, 2013 02:09 PM
So Singer, as I was researching this thread today...i came across this post you wrote:
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : by Singer
Posted : 12 Jun, 2012 05:54 PM
"Paul in answer to your question would I forgive my ex-wife? If she repented I would forgive her. However I would not take her back. She has become other men's wives under state law. Notice: She is still legally married to a third man not Lawfully by Yahweh of course."
****you clearly stated in this post that you would only forgive her if she repented. �That is not what forgiveness is about as I explained in other posts on this thread.
And as for the unpardonable sin, the Bible is clear on that.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 19 Nov, 2013 02:18 PM
Teach--
I have no reservations in saying that I find you to be one of the most openly dishonest people that I have ever dealt with. Anywhere.
Let's clear the record AGAIN. Shall we?
Here is your original statement.
"Based on your recent accusation that 'Paul is hiding behind my skirts',I'm gathering you may not like the fact that I as a woman have Biblical knowledge and am not afraid to present that knowledge.
I suppose I will be called down for not following the teaching in 1 Timothy 2:11-12 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
Guilty...although in reality no one who has been posting on this thread that has authority over me."
---------------
Here is my response:
Once again, you "gathered" wrong. You bring preconceived ideas to bear and then answer to the boogie man that isn't even there. One could easily term this as "baggage".
If you want to make your point. You would be better served to first ask what my position is on a matter. I have no problem with a woman reading and studying the Bible. In fact, I encourage women to do this all of the time. The Bible is clear on women teaching men in the church gathering. Draw your own conclusions and do with the teaching whatever you wish.
------------------
I said I have NO problem with a woman reading and studying the Bible which one would hope would lead to "having Biblical knowledge" ( you have clearly demonstrated that it's possible to read the Bible and still have virtually no knowledge of what it teaches) I also made clear that I believe the Bible is explicit on women teaching. You quoted one of the passages yourself. Go figure. Although, you do not heed the words.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 19 Nov, 2013 02:25 PM
Teach,
You BOLDLY correct Singer. However, once again, you display NO understanding of what the Word actually teaches.
You said, "you clearly stated in this post that you would only forgive her if she repented. That is not what forgiveness is about as I explained in other posts on this thread."
(Luke 17:3 [KJB:PCE])
Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 19 Nov, 2013 02:41 PM
Singer,
I have been encouraged by others who care about me to walk away from this thread. I am encouraging you my dear brother to consider doing the same. I know that you have discernment. What kind of spirits are we dealing with here brother? You know the answer. :devil:
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 19 Nov, 2013 03:32 PM
Mark 11:25-26�And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. 26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.
In this passage, we're instructed by Jesus that if when we pray, we remember someone who has wronged us, we are supposed to forgive them...not wait for them to ask for forgiveness. �If we don't God won't forgive us of our sins.
Luke 6:33-40�And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.�
34 And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.�
35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.�
� � � � �[***I would think v35 is referring to God being kind to the unsaved (evil) ***]
36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.�
� � � � �[**** this follows after talking about being kind to the evil ***]
37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:�
38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.�
Luke 11:4�And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.
***part of what's considered the Lord's Prayer, Jesus's example for us to pray, He didn't say 'we also forgive everyone that is indebted to us if they ask for forgiveness'
Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
[*** as Jesus hung on the cross, He forgave the very men who were crucifying Him...they had not asked for forgiveness ***]
2 Corinthians 2
1 But I determined this with myself, that I would not come again to you in heaviness.�
2 For if I make you sorry, who is he then that maketh me glad, but the same which is made sorry by me?
3 And I wrote this same unto you, lest, when I came, I should have sorrow from them of whom I ought to rejoice; having confidence in you all, that my joy is the joy of you all.�
4 For out of much affliction and anguish of heart I wrote unto you with many tears; not that ye should be grieved, but that ye might know the love which I have more abundantly unto you.
5 But if any have caused grief, he hath not grieved me, but in part: that I may not overcharge you all.�
6 Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many.�
7 So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow.�
8 Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him.�
9 For to this end also did I write, that I might know the proof of you, whether ye be obedient in all things.�
10 To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ;�
11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 19 Nov, 2013 06:22 PM
Teach ib you say that I'm a legalist? That's your opinion not the word's. I quote New Testament scriptures only. If I quote the old it's in reference only to a present day NT verse. Yet you say what I and IWA say is not all inclusive. Oh but see you do admit those verses are inclusive and they go right along with the verses you quote and are not eliminated by those you quote. If you say that then you are lying before all reading this forum . So time to admit they are not legalist opinions but clearly stated commanded scripture. You can't explain them away. Messiah said that we would have to pluck out our eye or cut off our hand if they were to cause us to sin (notice sin and yes even though believers) if it were to cause us to go to hell. Better to have 1 eye or 1 hand and be in the Kingdom. THERE"S NOTHING YOU CAN SAY TO TAKE AWAY THIS FACT OR TAKE AWAY THE WORDS OF MESSIAH WE POST here.
Also as for my ex wife............ Yahweh has left me in a powerful position spiritually being the innocent party and by even 1 single act of adultery(she had many) (also she went and married another despite ) I can scripturally divorce her (and did) and marry another and rightly so there is an award for obedience. However the guilty can't remarry they have qualified themselve as an adulterer and will qualify anyone else they marry as the same= Messiah warned this in Matthew 19. He also warns anyone doing so despite won't be in the kingdom! Rev 21 vs 8, 1 Corr 6 vs 4-7, ephesians 5 , ands Collossians 2. There are more I can give them too. You may be deflecting saying its condemnation but I say it's truth! Obeying the law and getting in line with scripture is true worship. We have to endure to the end to be saved and thats NT too......... I don't mind be called a legalists if true. Lawful is what I would prefer to be called thank you . Also you or paul can say we are making the scriptures say what we say? Ridiculous! They speak for themselves. IWA is correct in his presentations of the verses and you have to consider the truth of those verses even if you don't like him as the messenger of such............................
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 19 Nov, 2013 06:53 PM
Teach ib, I mean no condemnation by any of the truth of the scriptures I share. I post them to tell all believers to be obedient to Messiah's truth and to investigate handed down teachings especially of denominations. We all have to face truth no matter how hard. Our decisions or the decisions of others put us where we are and we have to live truth as it applies. Not as so called pastors and so called bible teachers say we are to face it with a watered down aspect all ltogether. This is why I encourage what I teach:
On judgement day our opinions won't be quoted! We will give an account of what we did with Yahushua in our lives ! Did we obey truth or itching ear preachers who will be told along with their followers to depart into hell.They all claimed they were doing something in his name yet Messiah will say depart you who practice lawlessness! What wait lawlessness??? Yes lawlessness =Not obeying his commands! That right there is enough to make us all want to make sure of all that we hear or are taught. This so we are not counted as lawless. We want to make sure we are in Messiah and every sin is under his blood! Rebellious sins that are willful can get us out from under the blood hebrews 10 vs 26. Adulterers and adulteresses who were married to believers can repent to they just can't remarry to prove they repented for adultery.Yet we can repent 1 John 1 vs 7 and 1 vs 9. However we have to repent in the heart and then confess. Not just confess! The whole bible teaches repentance.........This is what the bible teaches it's not my own truth...... This book was written long before I came to be..................................
