Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 2 Feb, 2012 11:28 PM
Thanks to a question about divorce and remarriage posted on another thread, I felt the need to address those on this site who may be suffering from the weight of guilt and condemnation heaped on them because of their reasons for divorce.
I wrote the following article, "The Stone Thrower", based on actual instances that happened on this site. If you are one of those who have been ostracized by others for having an "Unbiblical Divorce," please take the time to read. May it minister to your heart.
The Stone Thrower
I want to touch on a subject today that has long been regarded in Christendom as taboo . . . and that is . . . DIVORCE. Mention that word around some Christians and their hackles suddenly go up on the back of their neck. They pull out their proverbial stones ready to put to death anyone who they think has been un-biblically divorced. And to my shame, I was one of them�a stone thrower.
We all know the story of the woman caught in adultery in John 8:3-11. The scribes and Pharisees (the religious self-righteous) had arrested this woman and dragged her before Jesus. One has to wonder how these Pharisees caught such a woman "in the very act" of adultery. How convenient for them. It's amazing the depths of depravity the self-righteous will sink to in order to defend their religious arguments. Did they have the paparazzi spy on her to get some juicy pictures for the whole world to see?
At any rate, they dragged this poor woman in front of Jesus and proudly proclaimed, "Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?" (John 8:5)
Zowie!! These men can quote the Word of God . . . at least the parts that suit their fancy.
I like our Lord's reaction. "But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear" (John 8:6b).
Don't you just love it when someone ignores you . . . especially when you're trying to win an argument? But the self-righteous rarely lie down without a fight, and those religious Pharisees were determined to prove that they had the "truth." So they continued pestering Jesus, knowing that the Law of Moses was on their side. It's not a good idea to pester Jesus, especially when it comes to "pointing a finger" at someone.
"So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, 'He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.' And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. Then those who heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning from the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst" (John 8:7-9).
This introductory story of the woman caught in adultery has a purpose: I wanted you to have a glimpse of the mentality of a "stone thrower." They are usually self-righteous, ready to condemn, and can quote the Word of God. Ouch . . . I just described me.
I had a clear cut answer for the reasons one might give to justify divorce which I thought was quite Biblical. And in my mind, there was only one reason . . . "But I say to you, that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except for sexual immorality, causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery" (Matthew 5:32). There you have it�plain and simple. Who could argue with such a statement? It is the Word of God! I thought I had the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth . . . yet the truth is . . . I was ignorant of the ways of God. "For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment" (James 2:13).
And it was in my ignorance to God's ways that I threw stones at the divorced ladies on a Christian dating site some time ago. As a widower, I was on this site looking for a prospective wife. I was so appalled at the amount of women who were divorced on this site whose reasons for separating from their husbands did not match my view of scripture. In order to protect myself from these "contaminated souls," I purposely wrote something in my profile for those that I would consider as wife material: "You may be single, widowed, or divorced (must be for Biblical reasons only)."
When I would communicate with these divorced ladies, I would immediately ask them to provide details on the reason for their divorce. If they could not give me an answer of infidelity as the reason for their divorce, then I considered them unmarriageable. Yet God has a way of grabbing His child's attention when that child is in error.
One of the ladies on this dating site told me her story of divorce after I demanded it. Her husband was deep in bondage to pornography and had no interest whatsoever in repentance. The man had not physically hopped into bed with another woman, and so in my self-righteousness, I condemned the poor wife for wanting to opt out on the marriage. And the "stones" that I threw created fresh wounds in her heart while she recounted those painful memories of her husband's infidelity as he lusted after porn. According to Jesus' own words, her husband WAS GUILTY of adultery: "But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart" (Matthew 5:28). I ignored that scripture and concentrated only on Matthew 5:32. She lashed out at me, saying that she was glad Jesus did not condemn her even if I did. I have to admit, I was shaken by her story which moved me to tears.
Then there was another lady whom I demanded to give an account for her divorce. I threw "stones" at her as well when she could not give me a reason of infidelity for her separation. In bitter anger, she struck back at me, stating how her husband had broken her nose and physically abused her. I ignored the scripture which reads, "But God has called us to peace" (1 Corinthians 7:15b) and concentrated again on Matthew 5:32. However, her story bothered me very much just like the other woman's.
I began to seek God earnestly. These were only two of the many ladies who shared with me their heartbreaking stories of divorce. There were so many reasons given for divorce and none of them fell under sexual immorality (fornication) as I saw it. I sincerely asked the Lord to open my eyes. Was there any scriptural evidence to support these women's choices to opt out of a marriage other than infidelity? Yes, there was.
God led me to Matthew 19:3-12. The Pharisees were looking for a reason to trap Jesus in His words. Their previous scheme had not worked with the woman caught in adultery. However, if they could just get Jesus to say something contradictory to the Law of Moses, then they could brand Him as a heretic. So they asked Jesus this question, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?" (Matthew 19:3b)
Jesus' answer was, and still is, God's original intention for marriage: "Have you not read . . . the two shall become one flesh? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate" (Matthew 19:5b-6).
The Pharisees did not like His answer. For Jesus had taken them right back to Genesis before there ever was a Moses or a Law of Moses so that they could hear what GOD SAYS about marriage. Yet the stiff-necked Pharisees persisted with another question: "Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?" (Matthew 19:7)
Jesus responds, "Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so" (Matthew 19:8).
The self-righteous Pharisees were using the Law of Moses as an excuse to bail out on marriages for any flippant reason. And because of this, the Lord had some very strong words for them. "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery" (Matthew 19:9).
I can just hear the stone throwers shouting, "See, I told you . . . it's right there in the word . . . 'sexual immorality!'"
Wait a minute. Like Paul Harvey, let's hear "the rest of the story" before jumping to any conclusions. After verse 9 comes verse 10. Even Jesus' disciples, which would include us, were amazed at the words of Jesus. "His disciples said to Him, 'If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry'" (Matthew 19:10). Yeah, I can see their point. If sexual immorality (fornication) is the only reason for divorce, then perhaps we are better off not getting married.
But look at Jesus' response to his own disciples in verse 11. It stands to reason that if the disciples' statement was true, then Jesus would have said something to affirm it as such. He does not!
"But He said to them, 'All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given'" (Matthew 19:11).
What saying? The saying in verse 9 of course. NOT ALL can accept the saying that fornication is the ONLY reason for divorce.
Now notice that Jesus goes on to explain what He meant with the following verse:
"For there are eunuchs who were born thus from their mother's womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He who is able to accept it, let him accept it" (Matthew 19:12).
What did Jesus mean by this? He tells us that three different men all became eunuchs for different reasons. One was born a eunuch, another was made a eunuch by men, and still another made himself that way for the kingdom of heaven. They all became eunuchs for different reasons, but who is to say which eunuch is "God approved"? God accepted them all. That's the point!
Likewise, there are many reasons someone might seek a divorce: physical and verbal abuse from a spouse . . . being married to an unbeliever who makes life a literal hell . . . marital unfaithfulness . . . the stress of being married to an alcoholic for 23 years . . . or living with a pornographer who refuses to repent. Which one of these reasons for divorce is "God approved"? That's the point Jesus was making. Just as the eunuchs were acceptable to God regardless of how they became a eunuch, so also is a woman acceptable to God who seeks to be free from an abusive husband, even if infidelity is not involved. You and I cannot see in the heart of that abused person . . . but God can. For God has called them to peace.
And the church has done more harm counselling emotionally and physically battered women to stay in a relationship citing Matthew 5:32 "except for sexual immorality" as the only just cause for divorce. Women have actually committed suicide and murder under the stress of remaining in an abusive situation because their legalistic church counseled them to do so.
You may have heard of the case in the U.S. where a lady killed her husband (a pastor) who had been abusing her for years. God had called her to peace . . . but she never knew it, and one day she snapped. The evidence of abuse was so overwhelming that the courts found this woman not guilty of murder by reason of insanity.
I certainly do not want to imply that people should take their marriage so lightly as to divorce for every whim and fancy. I would not condone that, and neither does the Word of God. Every marriage will have its share of problems which can be worked out with God's help by two committed individuals. Yet there are some women, especially those suffering physical and mental abuse, who have reached the tipping point of no return; and the only thing they can do to preserve their sanity is to get out of that marriage. And ultimately, it is to the Lord they answer to, not you or me. He has called them to peace.
After God opened my eyes to the truth of scripture, I contacted those ladies on the dating site who I had thrown "stones" at and apologized profusely. I was truly grieved that I had been so self-righteous and blind, wounding those precious sisters for whom Christ died.
Now back to the story that I began with. The "stone throwers" had already dropped their rocks and left the scene with a guilty conscience, leaving Jesus alone with the adulterous woman.
"He said to her, 'Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?'"
"She said, 'No one, Lord.'"
"And Jesus said to her, 'Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more'" (John 8:10b-11).
HALLELUJAH�MERCY TRIUMPHS OVER JUDGMENT!!!
Blessings in Christ Jesus,
Paul Janz
(All Scripture quotations are taken from the Holy Bible, New King James Version.)
"The Stone Thrower" Copyright � 2010 by Paul Janz.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 19 Jun, 2012 10:01 PM
Thank you teach ib. You share the truth of God's Word. It speaks for itself. If someone finds fault, then they will have to find fault with the Word of God, for that is what you share.
God's Word stands on its own, which Paul and I regularly cite. (AMEN)
Exodus 33:19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.
Micah 7:18 Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.
19 He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.
20 Thou wilt perform the truth to Jacob, and the mercy to Abraham, which thou hast sworn unto our fathers from the days of old.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 19 Jun, 2012 10:05 PM
As always, teach ib, you do an excellent job as an expositor of God's Word. And though I have never held to any particular teaching of eternal security, I nonetheless believe, according to the same scriptures that you have presented here, that we CAN KNOW we are secure in Jesus . . . that He will never leave us nor forsake us. And for people who have lived their Christian life in constant fear of an "angry God", the scriptures that you have presented give assurance that God is not against us, but for us. I love it! Thank you so much for sharing.
I have chosen to share some thoughts from your posts that ministered to me personally:
"Singer, as Goldenfaith pointed out on earlier post...where is King David today? In Heaven or Hell?
After King David was saved...he committed adultery, then murder, Then married the woman he committed adultery with. Based on your statement that an adulterer continues in adultery throughout the marriage (continual sin) then King David is in Hell. However, God said he was a man after His heart. King David is in Heaven today.
The size of the sin does not matter...a little white lie is a lie and will separate one from God or hinder the relationship between man/woman and God."
I provided context and proof to your verses. If you want to practice the belief of having to worry constantly that you might sin after you accepted God's free gift of eternal life and not make it to Heaven...you have the freedom to do that. I have been freed from sin through the redemption of Jesus. I am no longer a slave to sin...not chained to it"
"When we receive God's free gift of salvation, He begins working in our lives. God accepts us as we are in our sins...we do not have to stop sinning to receive His gift. It is when we receive the gift of salvation that the Holy Spirit in dwells us and begins to convict us of the sins in our lives. Sometimes people immediately set aside sins (stop smoking, drinking, adultery, etc) however, in most cases, it takes time for people to fully understand and accept the sins they are committing which is the example in 1 Corinthians (they are still babies in Christ, they have not started growing in their Christian walk)"
"Not being under the law is not a license to sin as those who will accuse those of us who believe in the security of the believer. I never said I don't follow the commandments, in fact I have stated that I do follow the commandments because they set the right example for pleasing God. Just like we want to please our earthly parents, we should want to please our Heavenly Father, even more. We give up our sins because we are saved, not saved because we gave up our sins."
"Just like a parent loves a child even though that child may be disobedient or makes poor choices in life, God still loves His children even though He doesn't approve of what His children are doing. He doesn't disown His children. He chastises/punishes us just like our earthly parents, He provides us guidance through His Word and teachers/preachers, he picks us up when we fall down, He encourages through His rewards/blessings . . ."
"Salvation is either freely offered by God's grace and freely received as a gift because of Christ's blood sacrifice -- or else salvation is conditional and works are a necessary part of salvation. If salvation is conditional, one lives in fear of sinning. If salvation is unconditional, one chooses not to sin to please the Heavenly Father."
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 19 Jun, 2012 10:06 PM
teach ib, I love this post! It's worth repeating in its entirety"
"I have been physically threatened and threatened with having the police called on me while out witnessing/inviting people to church. I have worked in some of the roughest neighborhoods in the DC/Baltimore area.
I don't have to threaten anyone in return because I have displayed a Christian attitude towards them. If they do not want to hear, that is on them. In fact, the Bible instructs us to walk away from them. This does not make us cowardly, in fact it takes more courage to walk away.
Mark 6:11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent.
By walking away, this often leaves the door open for the next time or for someone else who may be in the neighborhood.
True story: I had a lady chew me out over being in her neighborhood talking to kids even though I had kids with me. She threatened to call the police on me. I apologized for upsetting her, although I had done nothing wrong...in her eyes I had. (I was scared because any police incidence could cause me to lose my job/career). I maintained a meek and humble spirit/attitude and God blessed it as the next morning, she and her two kids started riding the church bus on which I served as the captain. She was one of the most faithful and helpful women I worked with. Several years later, she apologized for how she treated me that first time we met. I told her I had forgiven her years before. Had I talked back to her, told her I had a right to be there, she would never have ridden the bus...and many other children would not have ridden as she brought many others with her over the years.
I wrote this not to brag but to provide a real example how being meek can be rewarded.
As my mom used to say...you can win more flies with honey than with vinegar."
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 19 Jun, 2012 10:15 PM
Reading your posts teach ib is like getting a breath of fresh air. The Word of God speaks for itself.
Romans 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
2 Timothy 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.
12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
13 Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
2 Timothy 2:11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
1 Timothy 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.
2 Timothy 2:11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
2 Timothy 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
2 Timothy 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.
10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
2 Timothy 4:17 Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion.
18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Titus 1:7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
8 But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;
Titus 1:10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 19 Jun, 2012 10:16 PM
1 John 3:10
- In this the children of YAHWEH and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of YAHWEH, nor is he who does not love his brother.
This is why we must have the right fruit. This is why we must practice righteousness. This is why we must love our brother
We must also not confuse strife with Yahweh's desire for us to 'contend' for His will.
Proverbs 28:4 - They that forsake the law praise the wicked: but such as keep the law contend with them.
and
Jude 1:3 - Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.
We have to do everything Yahweh says:Those who bear His name must be very careful what choose to say to others. All the world watches to see the love for one another that Yahushua said would be evident among His disciples. We must always remember that all that we write and say is written down for judgement!
Matthew 12:36 - But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
Do we realize the importance of those words spoken by Yahushua? Do we realize that if our conduct is not blameless that we who bear His name do indeed take His name in vain? As the proverb says..
Proverbs 30:8 - Remove far from me vanity and lies: give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with food convenient for me: 9 - Lest I be full, and deny thee, and say, Who is YAHWEH? or lest I be poor, and steal, and take the name of my Elohim in vain
May we never take his name in vain. Notice it is more than saying g-d da-mn.
The following is a collection of scriptures showing that Paul never taught that we need not obey the Law. I only ask that everyone read all of this study (please do not skim thru) before coming to a conclusion.
Paul himself believed in keeping the Law:
Acts 24:14 (NKJV) "But this I confess to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect, so I worship the Elohim of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets.
Acts 25:8 (NKJV) while he answered for himself, "Neither against the Law of the Jews, nor against the temple, nor against Caesar have I offended in anything at all."
Acts 18:21 (NKJV) but took leave of them, saying, "I must by all means keep this coming feast in Jerusalem; but I will return again to you, Yahweh willing." And he sailed from Ephesus.
Roma 7:25 (NKJV) I thank Yahweh--through Yahushua the Messiah our Master! So then, with the mind I myself serve the Law of Yahweh, but with the flesh the Law of sin.
Paul taught the disciples not to let anyone judge them for observing the Law (See the study on this on the home page)
Colo 2:16 (NKJV) So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the body of the Messiah.
Paul says that the doers of the Law will be justified and those who break it will be judged.
Roma 2:12 (NKJV) For as many as have sinned without Law will also perish without Law, and as many as have sinned in the Law will be judged by the Law 13 (for not the hearers of the Law [are] just in the sight of Yahweh, but the doers of the Law will be justified;
The word that is translated "without Law" here is word #460 which means "not amenable to the Jewish/Mosaic Law". (See Thayers and Strong's lexicon). Paul says that we know His will and approve the things that are excellent when instructed out of the Law.
Roma 2:17 (NKJV) Indeed you are called a Jew, and rest on the Law, and make your boast in Yahweh, 18 and know [His] will, and approve the things that are excellent, being instructed out of the Law, 19 and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, 20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, having the form of knowledge and truth in the Law.
Here he says that when we break the Law, we dishonor Yahweh and blaspheme His name.
Roma 2:21 You, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that a man should not steal, do you steal? 22 You who say, "Do not commit adultery," do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who make your boast in the Law, do you dishonor Yahweh through breaking the Law? 24 For "the name of Yahweh is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you," as it is written.
Here Paul twice states that we learn what sin is from the Law. This backs up the statement in 1John 3:4 that Sin is transgression of the Law.
Roma 3:20 (NKJV) Therefore by the deeds of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the Law [is] the knowledge of sin.
Roma 7:7 (NKJV) What shall we say then? [Is] the Law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the Law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the Law had said, "You shall not covet."
Here is a key scripture proving that Paul believed that thru faith we do not make the Law void, but rather we establish the Law (To cause or make to stand, #2476).
Roma 3:31 (NKJV) Do we then make void the Law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the Law.
Here is another key scripture like the one above proving that Paul did not believe that once we are under grace, that we can continue to sin (break the Law):
Roma 6:15 (NKJV) What then? Shall we sin because we are not under Law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin [leading] to death, or of obedience [leading] to righteousness?
Here Paul is equating "the Law" with "the commandment" and stating his opinion of them:
Roma 7:12 (NKJV) Therefore the Law [is] holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.
Here is an unpopular statement of Paul's. Many like to believe that the Law is of the flesh.
Roma 7:14 (NKJV) For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Paul delights in the Law of Yahweh
Roma 7:22 (NKJV) For I delight in the Law of Yahweh according to the inward man.
Now we will move on to where Paul uses the term "Lawlessness". The word that is translated "Lawlessness" in the following verses is the Greek word "anomia" which carries the following definition:
BDB/Thayers # 458
458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah}
from 459; TDNT - 4:1085,646; n f
AV - iniquity 12, unrighteousness 1, transgress the law + 4060 1,
transgression of the law 1; 15
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness
Now for a second witness here is the definition of this in the Strong's Hebrew Lexicon:
458. anomia, an-om-ee'-ah; from 459; illegality, i.e. violation of the law or (gen.) wickedness: --- iniquity X transgress (ion of) the law, unrighteousness.
Now note that both lexicons it states that both of these words come from the Greek word #459. This word means "To be destitute or in violation of the Mosaic or Jewish Law" (See Thayer's and Strong's Lexicons). Now the word #458 is translated "transgression of the Law" in the King James version of 1john 3:4
1Joh 3:4 (KJV) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the Law: for sin is the transgression of the Law.
Yes, this was written by John but it is surely showing that this word is certainly the definition of sin. For sin is "anomia" (condition of being without the Law or violation of the Law, transgression of the Law)
In these verses he shows that righteousness is the opposite of Lawlessness (#458 in violation of the Law). Therefore if one is keeping the Law, they must walking in righteousness. (Though this is confirmed already by many verses I have already shown.) Please also remember this for later in the study.
Roma 6:19 (NKJV) I speak in human [terms] because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members [as] slaves of uncleanness, and of Lawlessness [leading] to [more] Lawlessness, so now present your members [as] slaves [of] righteousness for holiness.
2Cor 6:14 (NKJV) Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with Lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?
Here again, Paul equates this word (#458) Lawless with SIN.
Roma 4:7 (NKJV) "Blessed [are] [those] whose Lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered;
Now here is an example where this word is used when translating the Old Testament.
Hebr 1:9 (NKJV) You have loved righteousness and hated Lawlessness (#458); Therefore Elohim, Your Elohim, has anointed You. With the oil of gladness more than Your companions."
Now this is interesting...here is an example of where the New Testament is quoting from the old testament. (From the Hebrew to the greek). Now what word does this greek word #458 translate from? Let's find out:
Psal 45:6 (KJV) Thy throne, O El', [is] for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom [is] a right sceptre.Psal 45:7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness:(From the greek #458) therefore El', thy El', hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
So it comes from the Hebrew word reshah (#7562) which means "Wickedness" !! Now how is this word used in other places in scripture? Here we seen an example of a Psalm that makes wickedness the opposite of righteousness. (Just as Paul taught).
Now this study might go on forever and ever proving that the meaning of what Paul meant by "righteousness" was obedience to the Law but lets look at some examples.
Roma 6:16 (NKJV) Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin [leading] to death, or of obedience [leading] to righteousness?
Here obedience is equated with righteousness (as defined by the Law)
Roma 10:5 (NKJV) For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the Law, "The man who does those things shall live by them."
Here are many other scriptures then where Paul says that we ought to walk in righteousness:
Ephe 5:8 (NKJV) For you were once darkness, but now [you] [are] light in Yahweh. Walk as children of light 9 (for the fruit of the Spirit [is] in all goodness, righteousness, and truth), 10 finding out what is acceptable to Yahweh. 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose [them].
Ephe 6:14 (NKJV) Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness,
Phil 1:9 (NKJV) And this I pray, that your love may abound still more and more in knowledge and all discernment, Phil 1:10 that you may approve the things that are excellent, that you may be sincere and without offense till the day of the Messiah, Phil 1:11 being filled with the fruits of righteousness which [are] by Yahushua the Messiah, to the glory and praise of Yahweh.
2Tim 2:22 (NKJV) Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on Yahweh out of a pure heart. 23 (NKJV) But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife.
Here is an example where Paul takes another step forward in showing that ALL SCRIPTURE (which must include the Law of Yahweh because there was no written "new testament" at that time) is given by Yahweh, profitable for doctrine, for reproof and instruction in righteousness.
2Tim 3:16 (NKJV) All Scripture [is] given by inspiration of Yahweh, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,17 that the man of Yahweh may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Now in conclusion I must say that there would have to be very little doubt that according to these verses in which Paul spoke, he certainly upheld the Law as the very definition of righteousness and holiness. And he taught that breaking these commandments were Unrighteousness, Lawlessness, wickedness, and most importantly, SIN. Therefore we can conclude that whenever Paul speaks of Sin...he most certainly is talking about disobeying the commandments in the Law. How many more scriptures could be added where Paul speaks against sin? This study would certainly be many pages long!
Therefore, we can see that it must have been obvious to Paul as well as quite obvious to his followers that Law obedience was expected. I believe that many of the details of Law observance were worked out in their public meetings as well as in the synagogues (see where James made the decision in Acts 15 that the Gentiles would learn the Law on the synagogues every Sabbath). Now I ask that anyone responding to this post to not just respond to one scripture or point here or there...but to respond to all of it. May Yahweh lead us into the the truth and into His Kingdom by His wonderful Spirit which is the word of Yahweh. (John 6:63)
One final quote:
Roma 8:6-7 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against Yahweh; for it is not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 19 Jun, 2012 11:17 PM
Singer4u says, "In fact paul I believe your doctrine of once saved always saved to be in error because I don't believe we have a license to sin."
I have GOOD NEWS for you Singer. I don't believe we have a license to sin either and NEITHER does teach ib and we have both made that perfectly clear on this thread. And just because some have used that doctrine as an excuse for sin, does not mean that we cannot know that we are secure in Jesus. The Bible is full of scriptures that give us assurance that we are secure in Christ.
If teach ib is willing, she can post all those scriptures again, but they are already posted on this thread.
Now consider how many other doctrines have been taken to extremes: "Faith ". . ."blab it and grab it" . . ."confess it and possess it" . . ."Christians should never be sick" . . ."Christians should always live in prosperity". Should we throw out faith in a Christian's life because it has been misused?
And neither should we ignore the truth of God's Word about being secure in Jesus. We are not talking here about living willfully in sin. We are talking about God's promise of security: "For He Himself has said, 'I will never leave you nor forsake you. So we may boldly say: 'The Lord is my helper; I will not fear. What can man do to me?'" (Hebrews 13: 5b-6). In this world of uncertainty where the stock market could crash tomorrow, or one lose their job, God has given us precious promises that He is with us no matter what we are facing.
When a Christian lives in fear that they may lose their salvation at any moment he sins, then he does not understand his salvation. We are saved by grace alone and kept by grace alone, and we will stand before God on Judgment Day, not in our own righteousness, but solely in the righteousness of Christ that is given to us as a gift.
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest any one should boast" (Ephesians 2: 8-9).
"Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world. There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love" (1 John 4:17-18).
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 19 Jun, 2012 11:21 PM
Thank you teach ib . . .your post is worth another encore:
Salvation is either freely offered by God's grace and freely received as a gift because of Christ's blood sacrifice -- or else salvation is conditional and works are a necessary part of salvation. If salvation is conditional, one lives in fear of sinning. If salvation is unconditional, one chooses not to sin to please the Heavenly Father.
Romans8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
2 Timothy 1:7-14
7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.
12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
13 Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
14 That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.
Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 19 Jun, 2012 11:42 PM
Thank you again teach ib for taking the time out of your busy schedule to share the Word of God and your thoughts. And thank you for your encouraging words to me. Your posts have inspired me to search deeper into the Word of God. I am reposting your thoughts and some additional scriptures on works:
"Obedience to the law/commandments cannot merit/earn salvation...nor does it keep us saved, however, it is evidence that we have received the gift of God, eternal life through Jesus Christ. Adherence to the commandments (although not a requirement for salvation) keeps in a good relationship with our Heavenly Father. Just like obeying the rule our parents establish keeps us on good terms with them."
How true. When we start adding works to either earn or keep our salvation, we are contradicting God's Word:
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works lest anyone should boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9).
"For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
"For what does the scripture say? 'Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.'
"Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
"But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
"just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
"'Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin'" (Romans 4: 2-8).
"Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
"But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
"even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;
"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
"being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Romans 3:20-24).
"knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
"But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not!
"For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
"For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God.
"I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
"I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain" ( Galatians 2:16-21).
"O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified?" (Galatians 3:1).
Paul had some strong words for those believers who once trusted in God's grace for salvation, but were now adding the works of the law to keep their salvation. If any of you readers are sitting under the teachings of such false doctrine, free yourself from (as Paul put it) those who have "bewitched you." Those who teach such false doctrines are not rightly dividing the Word of Truth.
"Therefore let it be known to you brethren, that through this Man (Jesus) is preached to you the forgiveness of sins; and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses" (Acts 13:38-39).
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 20 Jun, 2012 07:44 AM
paul, I have no doubt in the effacy of the blood of Yahushua and He can save to the uttermost. I believe we are secure in "Him" as long as we are a branch connected to the vine (Messiah) However, I believe those who fall away from him and take him for granted and practice sin willfully with no repentance=(I have even seen this from many bellievers) taking His name in vain. It is called commiting apostacy. Some who believed in Yahushua then believed in him then were swayed and went back to practicing the law and meaning looking for another messiah to come and the Apostle Paul told them Messiah had become of no use or effect for them.
I know of a semi-famous pentacostal preacher who fell away and is now a satanic high priest. He wasn't a fake believer he did believe and now he believes no more. I know of one who believed in Messiah and then later was convinced we came from apes=note he no longer believed.
