Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 2 Feb, 2012 11:28 PM
Thanks to a question about divorce and remarriage posted on another thread, I felt the need to address those on this site who may be suffering from the weight of guilt and condemnation heaped on them because of their reasons for divorce.
I wrote the following article, "The Stone Thrower", based on actual instances that happened on this site. If you are one of those who have been ostracized by others for having an "Unbiblical Divorce," please take the time to read. May it minister to your heart.
The Stone Thrower
I want to touch on a subject today that has long been regarded in Christendom as taboo . . . and that is . . . DIVORCE. Mention that word around some Christians and their hackles suddenly go up on the back of their neck. They pull out their proverbial stones ready to put to death anyone who they think has been un-biblically divorced. And to my shame, I was one of them�a stone thrower.
We all know the story of the woman caught in adultery in John 8:3-11. The scribes and Pharisees (the religious self-righteous) had arrested this woman and dragged her before Jesus. One has to wonder how these Pharisees caught such a woman "in the very act" of adultery. How convenient for them. It's amazing the depths of depravity the self-righteous will sink to in order to defend their religious arguments. Did they have the paparazzi spy on her to get some juicy pictures for the whole world to see?
At any rate, they dragged this poor woman in front of Jesus and proudly proclaimed, "Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?" (John 8:5)
Zowie!! These men can quote the Word of God . . . at least the parts that suit their fancy.
I like our Lord's reaction. "But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear" (John 8:6b).
Don't you just love it when someone ignores you . . . especially when you're trying to win an argument? But the self-righteous rarely lie down without a fight, and those religious Pharisees were determined to prove that they had the "truth." So they continued pestering Jesus, knowing that the Law of Moses was on their side. It's not a good idea to pester Jesus, especially when it comes to "pointing a finger" at someone.
"So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, 'He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.' And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. Then those who heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning from the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst" (John 8:7-9).
This introductory story of the woman caught in adultery has a purpose: I wanted you to have a glimpse of the mentality of a "stone thrower." They are usually self-righteous, ready to condemn, and can quote the Word of God. Ouch . . . I just described me.
I had a clear cut answer for the reasons one might give to justify divorce which I thought was quite Biblical. And in my mind, there was only one reason . . . "But I say to you, that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except for sexual immorality, causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery" (Matthew 5:32). There you have it�plain and simple. Who could argue with such a statement? It is the Word of God! I thought I had the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth . . . yet the truth is . . . I was ignorant of the ways of God. "For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment" (James 2:13).
And it was in my ignorance to God's ways that I threw stones at the divorced ladies on a Christian dating site some time ago. As a widower, I was on this site looking for a prospective wife. I was so appalled at the amount of women who were divorced on this site whose reasons for separating from their husbands did not match my view of scripture. In order to protect myself from these "contaminated souls," I purposely wrote something in my profile for those that I would consider as wife material: "You may be single, widowed, or divorced (must be for Biblical reasons only)."
When I would communicate with these divorced ladies, I would immediately ask them to provide details on the reason for their divorce. If they could not give me an answer of infidelity as the reason for their divorce, then I considered them unmarriageable. Yet God has a way of grabbing His child's attention when that child is in error.
One of the ladies on this dating site told me her story of divorce after I demanded it. Her husband was deep in bondage to pornography and had no interest whatsoever in repentance. The man had not physically hopped into bed with another woman, and so in my self-righteousness, I condemned the poor wife for wanting to opt out on the marriage. And the "stones" that I threw created fresh wounds in her heart while she recounted those painful memories of her husband's infidelity as he lusted after porn. According to Jesus' own words, her husband WAS GUILTY of adultery: "But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart" (Matthew 5:28). I ignored that scripture and concentrated only on Matthew 5:32. She lashed out at me, saying that she was glad Jesus did not condemn her even if I did. I have to admit, I was shaken by her story which moved me to tears.
Then there was another lady whom I demanded to give an account for her divorce. I threw "stones" at her as well when she could not give me a reason of infidelity for her separation. In bitter anger, she struck back at me, stating how her husband had broken her nose and physically abused her. I ignored the scripture which reads, "But God has called us to peace" (1 Corinthians 7:15b) and concentrated again on Matthew 5:32. However, her story bothered me very much just like the other woman's.
I began to seek God earnestly. These were only two of the many ladies who shared with me their heartbreaking stories of divorce. There were so many reasons given for divorce and none of them fell under sexual immorality (fornication) as I saw it. I sincerely asked the Lord to open my eyes. Was there any scriptural evidence to support these women's choices to opt out of a marriage other than infidelity? Yes, there was.
God led me to Matthew 19:3-12. The Pharisees were looking for a reason to trap Jesus in His words. Their previous scheme had not worked with the woman caught in adultery. However, if they could just get Jesus to say something contradictory to the Law of Moses, then they could brand Him as a heretic. So they asked Jesus this question, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?" (Matthew 19:3b)
Jesus' answer was, and still is, God's original intention for marriage: "Have you not read . . . the two shall become one flesh? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate" (Matthew 19:5b-6).
The Pharisees did not like His answer. For Jesus had taken them right back to Genesis before there ever was a Moses or a Law of Moses so that they could hear what GOD SAYS about marriage. Yet the stiff-necked Pharisees persisted with another question: "Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?" (Matthew 19:7)
Jesus responds, "Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so" (Matthew 19:8).
The self-righteous Pharisees were using the Law of Moses as an excuse to bail out on marriages for any flippant reason. And because of this, the Lord had some very strong words for them. "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery" (Matthew 19:9).
I can just hear the stone throwers shouting, "See, I told you . . . it's right there in the word . . . 'sexual immorality!'"
Wait a minute. Like Paul Harvey, let's hear "the rest of the story" before jumping to any conclusions. After verse 9 comes verse 10. Even Jesus' disciples, which would include us, were amazed at the words of Jesus. "His disciples said to Him, 'If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry'" (Matthew 19:10). Yeah, I can see their point. If sexual immorality (fornication) is the only reason for divorce, then perhaps we are better off not getting married.
But look at Jesus' response to his own disciples in verse 11. It stands to reason that if the disciples' statement was true, then Jesus would have said something to affirm it as such. He does not!
"But He said to them, 'All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given'" (Matthew 19:11).
What saying? The saying in verse 9 of course. NOT ALL can accept the saying that fornication is the ONLY reason for divorce.
Now notice that Jesus goes on to explain what He meant with the following verse:
"For there are eunuchs who were born thus from their mother's womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He who is able to accept it, let him accept it" (Matthew 19:12).
What did Jesus mean by this? He tells us that three different men all became eunuchs for different reasons. One was born a eunuch, another was made a eunuch by men, and still another made himself that way for the kingdom of heaven. They all became eunuchs for different reasons, but who is to say which eunuch is "God approved"? God accepted them all. That's the point!
Likewise, there are many reasons someone might seek a divorce: physical and verbal abuse from a spouse . . . being married to an unbeliever who makes life a literal hell . . . marital unfaithfulness . . . the stress of being married to an alcoholic for 23 years . . . or living with a pornographer who refuses to repent. Which one of these reasons for divorce is "God approved"? That's the point Jesus was making. Just as the eunuchs were acceptable to God regardless of how they became a eunuch, so also is a woman acceptable to God who seeks to be free from an abusive husband, even if infidelity is not involved. You and I cannot see in the heart of that abused person . . . but God can. For God has called them to peace.
And the church has done more harm counselling emotionally and physically battered women to stay in a relationship citing Matthew 5:32 "except for sexual immorality" as the only just cause for divorce. Women have actually committed suicide and murder under the stress of remaining in an abusive situation because their legalistic church counseled them to do so.
You may have heard of the case in the U.S. where a lady killed her husband (a pastor) who had been abusing her for years. God had called her to peace . . . but she never knew it, and one day she snapped. The evidence of abuse was so overwhelming that the courts found this woman not guilty of murder by reason of insanity.
I certainly do not want to imply that people should take their marriage so lightly as to divorce for every whim and fancy. I would not condone that, and neither does the Word of God. Every marriage will have its share of problems which can be worked out with God's help by two committed individuals. Yet there are some women, especially those suffering physical and mental abuse, who have reached the tipping point of no return; and the only thing they can do to preserve their sanity is to get out of that marriage. And ultimately, it is to the Lord they answer to, not you or me. He has called them to peace.
After God opened my eyes to the truth of scripture, I contacted those ladies on the dating site who I had thrown "stones" at and apologized profusely. I was truly grieved that I had been so self-righteous and blind, wounding those precious sisters for whom Christ died.
Now back to the story that I began with. The "stone throwers" had already dropped their rocks and left the scene with a guilty conscience, leaving Jesus alone with the adulterous woman.
"He said to her, 'Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?'"
"She said, 'No one, Lord.'"
"And Jesus said to her, 'Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more'" (John 8:10b-11).
HALLELUJAH�MERCY TRIUMPHS OVER JUDGMENT!!!
Blessings in Christ Jesus,
Paul Janz
(All Scripture quotations are taken from the Holy Bible, New King James Version.)
"The Stone Thrower" Copyright � 2010 by Paul Janz.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 18 Jun, 2012 11:30 PM
Teach ib, I want to share one of your excellent posts with some of my comments added here and there:
Paul wrote: "BobBobbin, you could not be MORE WRONG! Your LIES are outrageous, Teach ib and I are one in spirit. "
"This statement is so true! You see Bob, that's the beauty of being one in spirit with God's Spirit of mercy and grace. We are able to love one another and still hold different views. I am quite sure teach ib and I will not agree on everything�it really doesn't matter. But what we do agree on is this: that God is "merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abounding in goodness and truth, keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity, and transgression and sin" (Exodus 34:6-7a). That is God's very nature, and He wants that in His children. "
Yes, Paul, we are one in the Holy Spirit. (Yes we are)
Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint- heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
We agree on the fundamentals of the faith. No two humans agree on everything, even Christians have disagreements.
Bob wrote: "You would make a deal with the devil if it meant he would agree with you. Your posts have shown this. You know that she is wrong but you can't chance losing her support at this point, can you?"
BobBobbins, are you telling LIES about me again? I must needs remind you of what the Word of God says about liars: "But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and idolaters, and WHOEVER LOVES AND PRACTICES A LIE" (Revelation 22:15). You might be able fool the people who read your posts, but you can�t fool God. Know this, you WILL give an account to God for every lie and innuendo spoken here. You can deny it all you want on your posts, but your deceitfulness, lies, and innuendoes have been clearly exposed.
teach ib says, "I believe Paul would have no problem pointing out if I was wrong, just as he has correctly pointed out your (Bob's) errors.
Thank you teach ib. You share the truth of God's Word. It speaks for itself. If someone finds fault, then they will have to find fault with the Word of God, for that is what you share.
God's Word stands on its own, which Paul and I regularly cite. (AMEN)
Exodus 33:19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.
Micah 7:18 Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.
19 He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.
20 Thou wilt perform the truth to Jacob, and the mercy to Abraham, which thou hast sworn unto our fathers from the days of old.
Romans 14:12 . . .
"So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God."
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 18 Jun, 2012 11:31 PM
�Salvation is either freely offered by God's grace and freely received as a gift because of Christ's blood sacrifice �-- or else salvation is conditional and works are a necessary part of salvation. �If salvation is conditional, one lives in fear of sinning. �If salvation is unconditional, one chooses not to sin to please the Heavenly Father.
Romans8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
2 Timothy 1:7-14
7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;�
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,�
10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
�11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.�
12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
13 Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
�14 That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.
Romans 11:6�And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Romans 4:5�But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 18 Jun, 2012 11:34 PM
Thank you again teach ib for taking the time out of your busy schedule to share the Word of God and your thoughts. And thank you for your encouraging words to me. Your posts have inspired me to search deeper into the Word of God. I am reposting your thoughts and some additional scriptures on works:
"Obedience to the law/commandments cannot merit/earn salvation...nor does it keep us saved, however, it is evidence that we have received the gift of God, eternal life through Jesus Christ. Adherence to the commandments (although not a requirement for salvation) keeps in a good relationship with our Heavenly Father. Just like obeying the rule our parents establish keeps us on good terms with them."
How true. When we start adding works to either earn or keep our salvation, we are contradicting God's Word:
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works lest anyone should boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9).
"For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
"For what does the scripture say? 'Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.'
"Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
"But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
"just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
"'Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin'" (Romans 4: 2-8).
"Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
"But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
"even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;
"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
"being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Romans 3:20-24).
"knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
"But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not!
"For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
"For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God.
"I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
"I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain" ( Galatians 2:16-21).
"O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified?" (Galatians 3:1).
Paul had some strong words for those believers who once trusted in God's grace for salvation, but were now adding the works of the law to keep their salvation. If any of you readers are sitting under the teachings of such false doctrine, free yourself from (as Paul put it) those who have "bewitched you." Those who teach such false doctrines are not servants of God, no matter how many rabbis they boast to have sat under.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 18 Jun, 2012 11:38 PM
BobBobbins: David was the king of Israel. I will prove it.
3 Therefore came all the elders of Israel to the king to Hebron; and David made a covenant with them in Hebron before the LORD ; and they anointed David king over Israel, according to the word of the LORD by Samuel.
2 And David perceived that the LORD had confirmed him king over Israel, for his kingdom was lifted up on high, because of his people Israel
TEACH_IB: BOB, YOU ARE A LEGALIST WHO DOESN'T QUOTE SCRIPTURE. YOU ARE WRONG ABOUT DAVID. LOOK AT ALL THESE VERSEs THAT I CAN QUOTE. I WILL SHOW YOU THAT JESSE BEGAT DAVID.
1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. 2 Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren; 3 And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram; 4 And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon; 5 And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse; 6 And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her [that had been the wife] of Urias; 7 And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat Asa; 8 And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias; 9 And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and Achaz begat Ezekias; 10 And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias; 11 And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon:1 12 And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel; 13 And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor; 14 And Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud; 15 And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob; 16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ. 17 So all the generations from Abraham to David [are] fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon [are] fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ [are] fourteen generations.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 18 Jun, 2012 11:40 PM
Thank you teach ib . . .your post is worth an encore:
Salvation is either freely offered by God's grace and freely received as a gift because of Christ's blood sacrifice -- or else salvation is conditional and works are a necessary part of salvation. If salvation is conditional, one lives in fear of sinning. If salvation is unconditional, one chooses not to sin to please the Heavenly Father.
Romans8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
2 Timothy 1:7-14
7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.
12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
13 Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
14 That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.
Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 18 Jun, 2012 11:44 PM
Teach ib, I want to share one of your excellent posts with some of my comments added here and there:
Paul wrote: "BobBobbin, you could not be MORE WRONG! Your LIES are outrageous, Teach ib and I are one in spirit. "
"This statement is so true! You see Bob, that's the beauty of being one in spirit with God's Spirit of mercy and grace. We are able to love one another and still hold different views. I am quite sure teach ib and I will not agree on everything�it really doesn't matter. But what we do agree on is this: that God is "merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abounding in goodness and truth, keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity, and transgression and sin" (Exodus 34:6-7a). That is God's very nature, and He wants that in His children. "
Yes, Paul, we are one in the Holy Spirit. (Yes we are)
Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint- heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
We agree on the fundamentals of the faith. No two humans agree on everything, even Christians have disagreements.
Bob wrote: "You would make a deal with the devil if it meant he would agree with you. Your posts have shown this. You know that she is wrong but you can't chance losing her support at this point, can you?"
BobBobbins, are you telling LIES about me again? I must needs remind you of what the Word of God says about liars: "But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and idolaters, and WHOEVER LOVES AND PRACTICES A LIE" (Revelation 22:15). You might be able fool the people who read your posts, but you can�t fool God. Know this, you WILL give an account to God for every lie and innuendo spoken here. You can deny it all you want on your posts, but your deceitfulness, lies, and innuendoes have been clearly exposed.
teach ib says, "I believe Paul would have no problem pointing out if I was wrong, just as he has correctly pointed out your (Bob's) errors.
Thank you teach ib. You share the truth of God's Word. It speaks for itself. If someone finds fault, then they will have to find fault with the Word of God, for that is what you share.
God's Word stands on its own, which Paul and I regularly cite. (AMEN)
Exodus 33:19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.
Micah 7:18 Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.
19 He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.
20 Thou wilt perform the truth to Jacob, and the mercy to Abraham, which thou hast sworn unto our fathers from the days of old.
Romans 14:12 . . .
"So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God."
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 18 Jun, 2012 11:46 PM
Thank you teach ib . . .your post is worth another encore:
Salvation is either freely offered by God's grace and freely received as a gift because of Christ's blood sacrifice -- or else salvation is conditional and works are a necessary part of salvation. If salvation is conditional, one lives in fear of sinning. If salvation is unconditional, one chooses not to sin to please the Heavenly Father.
Romans8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
2 Timothy 1:7-14
7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.
12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
13 Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
14 That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.
Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 18 Jun, 2012 11:49 PM
Thank you again teach ib for taking the time out of your busy schedule to share the Word of God and your thoughts. And thank you for your encouraging words to me. Your posts have inspired me to search deeper into the Word of God. I am reposting your thoughts and some additional scriptures on works:
"Obedience to the law/commandments cannot merit/earn salvation...nor does it keep us saved, however, it is evidence that we have received the gift of God, eternal life through Jesus Christ. Adherence to the commandments (although not a requirement for salvation) keeps in a good relationship with our Heavenly Father. Just like obeying the rule our parents establish keeps us on good terms with them."
How true. When we start adding works to either earn or keep our salvation, we are contradicting God's Word:
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works lest anyone should boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9).
"For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
"For what does the scripture say? 'Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.'
"Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
"But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
"just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
"'Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin'" (Romans 4: 2-8).
"Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
"But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
"even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;
"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
"being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Romans 3:20-24).
"knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
"But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not!
"For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
"For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God.
"I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
"I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain" ( Galatians 2:16-21).
"O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified?" (Galatians 3:1).
Paul had some strong words for those believers who once trusted in God's grace for salvation, but were now adding the works of the law to keep their salvation. If any of you readers are sitting under the teachings of such false doctrine, free yourself from (as Paul put it) those who have "bewitched you." Those who teach such false doctrines are not servants of God, no matter how many rabbis they boast to have sat under.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 19 Jun, 2012 12:59 AM
Singer wrote: "So what are we both doing here paul as you ask?
Winning!!! So take your toys and go home off the playground!"
These are really mature posts. You have been Scripturally refuted on every point. I haven't seen many of your posts that don't display a childish attitude as well as bullying.
You don't scare me in anyway. Your idle threats are unbecoming to the Christian faith. Your analogy to a police officer or military member doing their job as being equivalent to running into problems while witnessing on the street is faulty
------------------------I don't make any threats teach ib nor do I bully but I tell it like it is. Just because you disagree with me doesn't make me wrong. I am scared of no one especially you teach ib. Idle threats? Prove I made one. Your rudeness and not rightly dividing the Word is unbecoming to the christian faith. Saying witnessing on the street is comparable to the duty of police officers is spot on oh ignorant woman. You are in error and your references to me and Bob as to the sorcerers who opposed Moses is totally wrong and quite frankly stupid. Bob and I like the law of Moses because it was given to him by Yahweh and we support it in light of Messiah Yahushua. Its you who in fact believes a easy greasy grace only message which doesn't line up with all the scriptures. You haven't proven anybody wrong with your rants. Take your bitterness and your onesided arguments and go back to playing with your dolls oh crying woman who lost based on trying to explain away from Yahweh says plainly.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 19 Jun, 2012 01:18 AM
Singer wrote: "So what are we both doing here paul as you ask?
Winning!!! So take your toys and go home off the playground!"
These are really mature posts. You have been Scripturally refuted on every point. I haven't seen many of your posts that don't display a childish attitude as well as bullying.
You don't scare me in anyway. Your idle threats are unbecoming to the Christian faith. Your analogy to a police officer or military member doing their job as being equivalent to running into problems while witnessing on the street is faulty
Ok teach ib oh knowing one. If you are saved no matter what the why did Yahweh have the warning passages put in the scriptures? Why is Revealtion 22 vs 19 in there. Oh and your ignorance shows! It says their name will be erased from the book of life! Any elementary bible student knows that you have to be a believer for it to be written there to begin with. I addressed this on an earlier post where you didn't touch on this fact. Also you said the book of Revelation was written to all people and I proved by the verses themselves that Messiah Yahushua was showing John the Apostle the vision and addressing the angel od the seven churches , and his bondservants so that they would know the things that will come on the Earth. It doesn't address unbelievers it is left up to Yahweh's bondservants to preach, teach, and encourage them to read it and believe it.
Wrong again teach ib. This round is clearly mine! If you deny what I'm saying then repost Revelation 1 vs1 as well as 2 vs 1 and so forth.
