Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 2 Feb, 2012 11:28 PM
Thanks to a question about divorce and remarriage posted on another thread, I felt the need to address those on this site who may be suffering from the weight of guilt and condemnation heaped on them because of their reasons for divorce.
I wrote the following article, "The Stone Thrower", based on actual instances that happened on this site. If you are one of those who have been ostracized by others for having an "Unbiblical Divorce," please take the time to read. May it minister to your heart.
The Stone Thrower
I want to touch on a subject today that has long been regarded in Christendom as taboo . . . and that is . . . DIVORCE. Mention that word around some Christians and their hackles suddenly go up on the back of their neck. They pull out their proverbial stones ready to put to death anyone who they think has been un-biblically divorced. And to my shame, I was one of them�a stone thrower.
We all know the story of the woman caught in adultery in John 8:3-11. The scribes and Pharisees (the religious self-righteous) had arrested this woman and dragged her before Jesus. One has to wonder how these Pharisees caught such a woman "in the very act" of adultery. How convenient for them. It's amazing the depths of depravity the self-righteous will sink to in order to defend their religious arguments. Did they have the paparazzi spy on her to get some juicy pictures for the whole world to see?
At any rate, they dragged this poor woman in front of Jesus and proudly proclaimed, "Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?" (John 8:5)
Zowie!! These men can quote the Word of God . . . at least the parts that suit their fancy.
I like our Lord's reaction. "But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear" (John 8:6b).
Don't you just love it when someone ignores you . . . especially when you're trying to win an argument? But the self-righteous rarely lie down without a fight, and those religious Pharisees were determined to prove that they had the "truth." So they continued pestering Jesus, knowing that the Law of Moses was on their side. It's not a good idea to pester Jesus, especially when it comes to "pointing a finger" at someone.
"So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, 'He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.' And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. Then those who heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning from the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst" (John 8:7-9).
This introductory story of the woman caught in adultery has a purpose: I wanted you to have a glimpse of the mentality of a "stone thrower." They are usually self-righteous, ready to condemn, and can quote the Word of God. Ouch . . . I just described me.
I had a clear cut answer for the reasons one might give to justify divorce which I thought was quite Biblical. And in my mind, there was only one reason . . . "But I say to you, that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except for sexual immorality, causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery" (Matthew 5:32). There you have it�plain and simple. Who could argue with such a statement? It is the Word of God! I thought I had the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth . . . yet the truth is . . . I was ignorant of the ways of God. "For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment" (James 2:13).
And it was in my ignorance to God's ways that I threw stones at the divorced ladies on a Christian dating site some time ago. As a widower, I was on this site looking for a prospective wife. I was so appalled at the amount of women who were divorced on this site whose reasons for separating from their husbands did not match my view of scripture. In order to protect myself from these "contaminated souls," I purposely wrote something in my profile for those that I would consider as wife material: "You may be single, widowed, or divorced (must be for Biblical reasons only)."
When I would communicate with these divorced ladies, I would immediately ask them to provide details on the reason for their divorce. If they could not give me an answer of infidelity as the reason for their divorce, then I considered them unmarriageable. Yet God has a way of grabbing His child's attention when that child is in error.
One of the ladies on this dating site told me her story of divorce after I demanded it. Her husband was deep in bondage to pornography and had no interest whatsoever in repentance. The man had not physically hopped into bed with another woman, and so in my self-righteousness, I condemned the poor wife for wanting to opt out on the marriage. And the "stones" that I threw created fresh wounds in her heart while she recounted those painful memories of her husband's infidelity as he lusted after porn. According to Jesus' own words, her husband WAS GUILTY of adultery: "But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart" (Matthew 5:28). I ignored that scripture and concentrated only on Matthew 5:32. She lashed out at me, saying that she was glad Jesus did not condemn her even if I did. I have to admit, I was shaken by her story which moved me to tears.
Then there was another lady whom I demanded to give an account for her divorce. I threw "stones" at her as well when she could not give me a reason of infidelity for her separation. In bitter anger, she struck back at me, stating how her husband had broken her nose and physically abused her. I ignored the scripture which reads, "But God has called us to peace" (1 Corinthians 7:15b) and concentrated again on Matthew 5:32. However, her story bothered me very much just like the other woman's.
I began to seek God earnestly. These were only two of the many ladies who shared with me their heartbreaking stories of divorce. There were so many reasons given for divorce and none of them fell under sexual immorality (fornication) as I saw it. I sincerely asked the Lord to open my eyes. Was there any scriptural evidence to support these women's choices to opt out of a marriage other than infidelity? Yes, there was.
God led me to Matthew 19:3-12. The Pharisees were looking for a reason to trap Jesus in His words. Their previous scheme had not worked with the woman caught in adultery. However, if they could just get Jesus to say something contradictory to the Law of Moses, then they could brand Him as a heretic. So they asked Jesus this question, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?" (Matthew 19:3b)
Jesus' answer was, and still is, God's original intention for marriage: "Have you not read . . . the two shall become one flesh? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate" (Matthew 19:5b-6).
The Pharisees did not like His answer. For Jesus had taken them right back to Genesis before there ever was a Moses or a Law of Moses so that they could hear what GOD SAYS about marriage. Yet the stiff-necked Pharisees persisted with another question: "Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?" (Matthew 19:7)
Jesus responds, "Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so" (Matthew 19:8).
The self-righteous Pharisees were using the Law of Moses as an excuse to bail out on marriages for any flippant reason. And because of this, the Lord had some very strong words for them. "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery" (Matthew 19:9).
I can just hear the stone throwers shouting, "See, I told you . . . it's right there in the word . . . 'sexual immorality!'"
Wait a minute. Like Paul Harvey, let's hear "the rest of the story" before jumping to any conclusions. After verse 9 comes verse 10. Even Jesus' disciples, which would include us, were amazed at the words of Jesus. "His disciples said to Him, 'If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry'" (Matthew 19:10). Yeah, I can see their point. If sexual immorality (fornication) is the only reason for divorce, then perhaps we are better off not getting married.
But look at Jesus' response to his own disciples in verse 11. It stands to reason that if the disciples' statement was true, then Jesus would have said something to affirm it as such. He does not!
"But He said to them, 'All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given'" (Matthew 19:11).
What saying? The saying in verse 9 of course. NOT ALL can accept the saying that fornication is the ONLY reason for divorce.
Now notice that Jesus goes on to explain what He meant with the following verse:
"For there are eunuchs who were born thus from their mother's womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He who is able to accept it, let him accept it" (Matthew 19:12).
What did Jesus mean by this? He tells us that three different men all became eunuchs for different reasons. One was born a eunuch, another was made a eunuch by men, and still another made himself that way for the kingdom of heaven. They all became eunuchs for different reasons, but who is to say which eunuch is "God approved"? God accepted them all. That's the point!
Likewise, there are many reasons someone might seek a divorce: physical and verbal abuse from a spouse . . . being married to an unbeliever who makes life a literal hell . . . marital unfaithfulness . . . the stress of being married to an alcoholic for 23 years . . . or living with a pornographer who refuses to repent. Which one of these reasons for divorce is "God approved"? That's the point Jesus was making. Just as the eunuchs were acceptable to God regardless of how they became a eunuch, so also is a woman acceptable to God who seeks to be free from an abusive husband, even if infidelity is not involved. You and I cannot see in the heart of that abused person . . . but God can. For God has called them to peace.
And the church has done more harm counselling emotionally and physically battered women to stay in a relationship citing Matthew 5:32 "except for sexual immorality" as the only just cause for divorce. Women have actually committed suicide and murder under the stress of remaining in an abusive situation because their legalistic church counseled them to do so.
You may have heard of the case in the U.S. where a lady killed her husband (a pastor) who had been abusing her for years. God had called her to peace . . . but she never knew it, and one day she snapped. The evidence of abuse was so overwhelming that the courts found this woman not guilty of murder by reason of insanity.
I certainly do not want to imply that people should take their marriage so lightly as to divorce for every whim and fancy. I would not condone that, and neither does the Word of God. Every marriage will have its share of problems which can be worked out with God's help by two committed individuals. Yet there are some women, especially those suffering physical and mental abuse, who have reached the tipping point of no return; and the only thing they can do to preserve their sanity is to get out of that marriage. And ultimately, it is to the Lord they answer to, not you or me. He has called them to peace.
After God opened my eyes to the truth of scripture, I contacted those ladies on the dating site who I had thrown "stones" at and apologized profusely. I was truly grieved that I had been so self-righteous and blind, wounding those precious sisters for whom Christ died.
Now back to the story that I began with. The "stone throwers" had already dropped their rocks and left the scene with a guilty conscience, leaving Jesus alone with the adulterous woman.
"He said to her, 'Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?'"
"She said, 'No one, Lord.'"
"And Jesus said to her, 'Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more'" (John 8:10b-11).
HALLELUJAH�MERCY TRIUMPHS OVER JUDGMENT!!!
Blessings in Christ Jesus,
Paul Janz
(All Scripture quotations are taken from the Holy Bible, New King James Version.)
"The Stone Thrower" Copyright � 2010 by Paul Janz.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 31 May, 2012 09:49 PM
BobBobbins and Singer4U . . . I will not even bother addressing your railing and false accusations against me�they are simply too ridiculous to even warrant my time.
What has clearly manifested here is that my article has drawn out into the open two stone throwers. At least now we know who you are. Thank you. :angel:
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 31 May, 2012 10:39 PM
Paul a man is a heretic after 2 warnings.
You don't know scripture and it shows! You are a middle of the road avoid controversy type person. I gave you new testament verses and you won't even test them to see what I am saying.
Your telling me I am a stone thrower bothers me not! You laying stumbling blocks to other believers to remarry does bother me and our KING!
Also me and Bob are not falsely accusing! We rae quoting what you said and failed to say in your stone thrower half truth man pleasing only anaylsis of what Messiah said! You apparently don't study the whole word and it shows!!!!!!!
You are in fear and why you are offended! You consider you may be wrong because two so called stone throwers know the scriptures way better than you do! It shows for all to see!
I IMPLORE ALL WHO READ THIS DEBATE TO STUDY ALL THE SCRIPTURES ON DIVORCE AND REMARRIAGE AS WELL AS ADULTERY AND FORNICATION SO THAT YOU GUARD YOUR SOULS! oNLY LISTEN TO WHAT MESSIAH YAHUSHUA SAYS ON THIS MATTER! DISREGARD THE stone thrower interpretation with its half truth half baked recipe!
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 31 May, 2012 11:00 PM
BobBobbins I can tell you are a capable well studied man of Yahweh! I like your point by poimt refutations and I thank Yahushua that you are in ministry and may he bless you a hundred fold in all your goings Spiritually, financially, mentally, and physically! Shalom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 31 May, 2012 11:14 PM
Lastly as for me I will only marry a never married believing woman, a widow, or a woman who was a victim of adultery! I would never marry a woman who was a believer and was married to a believer and committed adultery! She is still bound by her husband Romans 7 vs 2 and 3 and 1 Corrinthians 7 vs 38 and 39. To do so would make me an adulterer per Matthew 19 and I will not lose my salvation for such a thing on this earth! Better to be single and chaste and live in obediance than risk hell hoping we are once saved always saved and then pass on and find out hell awaits!!!! Yahweh forbid!
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 1 Jun, 2012 04:32 PM
HI Brother and Sisters! :angel:
Hope to find everyone in love and trying to understand & truly praying for one another at the very least! We are to be merciful and in love but still dividing word of truth with patience and mercy as our heavenly father does! Boy he could strike us all dead, if he wasn't so merciful and patient or we could end up in another Noah's flood and Sodom & Gomorrah...but his mercies are new every morning Praise be the Only God of heaven and earth!!!! He is patient until we learn more of scripture and obey it more and more as we grow....different stages for believers,maturity and even understanding...so being aware of this helps to help others .....
He waits and searches for those seeking to do his will..
Some deep thoughts I have thought of after studying the greek and hebrew context on divorce...
And I have wondered and questioned????
Did King David go to hell?????? He demonstrated true repentance...but he didn't leave Bathsheba ever ~ so is that true repentance since he didn't leave her? And why did God permit for them to remain together till the end? Because it was a choice.....free will..but according to bible..they loved one another..and love is greatest...and they were forgiven and God pardoned them but with some consequences..but much of it was because of the murder of an innocent brother Uriah.....(Bathsheba was wife David fell with and even murdered her husband) not directly but it was considered murder since he planned him to go to battle & planned murder in his heart/mind..though he wasn't caught killing him per say ...same thing with adultery in mind...still in the heart.....though not caught...why i believe........ Matthew 5.27/28 ..... applies as spiritual adultery and depriving spouse..the putting away by rejection and given to other lusts..and that is unfaithfulness whether u acknowledge or choose to overlook it...it is not my concern what u choose to accept and apply and what u choose to reject...and then turnaround and reject brothers and sisters due to knowing part truth and part ignorance....I am only accountable for my life and revelation of word that I have sought and have gotten direction for my specific life and circumstance..I will not be moved by mans interpretation unless it is shared by men/women full of true knowledge of scriptures and proper context and full of his love/mercy and grace...But appreciate the bretheran who truly mean well...and have a heart to teach and instruct...that is biblical and should be accepted by the body...but not those called to just throw a stone without understanding...have to qualify to do instructing too....and most ppl know if operating in love and wisdom......that is why some teachers get rejected and it goes in one ear and out the other...not a rejection of Christ or his words..but the messengers manner of delivering....Put on the covering of Love brothers and sisters .and his true ppl will listen and heed...:)
Back to David.....
David wanted Bathsheba so she could be totally free and be joined with him!...She was still considered Uriah's wife in scripture till the end..so i agree..they were joined in God's eyes permanently....But out of his mercy,forgiveness and love...he allowed Bathsheba to remain w. David...So I have thought deeply about it...Yes he committed murder and even adultery..because he was married to Johnathans sister and Sauls daughter...multiple wives...not only wife...
but by according to scholars accounts...King David was truly forgiven because he truly repented and he is still considered King of Israel/Jews appointed by God...So if all adulterers go to hell...is he there???? Or does it count that he was forgiven and God remembers his sins no more????? He remarried..married a married woman really..and murdered to separate her from a son of God as well... Does Gods love triumphant over our sin nature and his mercy and love overcome all sin if we truly repent and not repeat past or our marriage partners don't continue to sin??? He conquered death and all sin by his blood..and all that find themselves in a situation of sin..can take full advantage by fully repenting...So since David didn't keep committing adultery over and over ~ was it forgiven truly as it states in bible... that one is forgiven once u repent? What will it be? Either he is true to his word of love and forgiveness and mercy or he is not..and he changes...and I know he doesn't change..so what he does is forgive and love.....10 commandments there to remind us to stop this sin or that...and to know right from wrong ..to live by...but honestlly...will u ever fail at times? If u say there has never been a sin..or will never be a sin in you..you are a liar according to scripture...only made perfect through the blood sacrifice on cross..through forgiveness...Byt let us pray for strength and grace to keep the commandments and love to do his will....out of love for him...:)
To have one wife was given admonition to leaders/pastors...to be husbands of one wife...and it also says it is better to marry than to burn...so the person that doesn't remarry that isn't called to remain chaste...they will immediately go to hell then???? Because men and women have god given libido...should be taken advantage only in marriage, but a person in christian service as pastor ..must not have more than one wife it says in word...many say that is referring to more than one wife at a time...many say one wife for all your life..many say allowed another wife if first one was unfaithful, others say allowed another wife if become new creature in Christ and remarry and choose new partner in Christ being equally yoked in spirit too..many views ..but many are not called to be pastors and that admonishment was given by Paul.
Jesus told woman at well.."Go and sin no more"...just like David stopped killing and committing adultery/fornication....upon repentance.. but he didn't remain single/chaste....we don't know if woman at well married again if she was new creature after that point and prayed and married another believer after repenting of past and being forgiven...What if a person was going to burn because of desire within him/ her and wanting a companion to share a restored life with??? God says better to marry than to burn...and some can refuse marriage because they have died to flesh and want to only serve God in some capacity that calls for their abstinence..
......but its not for everyone to remain single and why he mentioned some called by men, by choice and others by God to be chaste/ eunuch ....... That is what he was talking about...if u have desire u will burn in hell, even if u lust in your heart/mind ...and desire is natural just as breathing is..it is not like lust..which u turn on by arousing it on your own... I see this in body all the time..ppl want to remarry to not burn..and God says he is against those that forbid marriage...and not just talking about Catholic doctrine...but many saying you must not remarry or u can't eat this or that...when it is permitted to eat when u pray for meal with thankfulness...and it is blessed..though I personally like to eat healthy with wisdom to keep temple healthy.but not forced or to imposed or others and their choice.....Remember Paul giving admonishment for leaders if they want to follow Christ and be faithful to only him in service as marriage will hinder you...so recommended no marriage or married to one woman...and you must please wife and keep house in order to please God and u will be entangled with other affairs of wife and family...others will not marry and please God solely......even disciples forsook all for the call...they even left wives for long periods....but not everyone will have that call that strongly...Yes if you remain in lust and keep committing adultery and fornicating ...and u marry another in this condition..which is probably going to result in another divorce or tragedy....
But I was questioning if u repent and he totally forgives and u remarry to not burn....If u r not taking all these scriptures into full account and Context...and cross referencing and applying properly..u will be accountable if giving advice to not remarry!! You will be accountable for that as well...and many will follow your advice and then find themselves with desire and will go and commit sins without marriage...and then you will be asked on judgement day as to why you judged and took every scripture literal.....and took forgiveness and hope from ppl being reformed/transformed in him and given new chance to become new creatures and choosing to marry with godly person after repenting from past sins...new creatures now....Everyone unfaithful to God..yet..he takes us back..forgives us all...if we repent...and does that mean we can't go back to spouse or marry...did David leave Bathsheba?.Did Hosea leave wife and move on? It's a choice to be eunach at times....as long as u don't remain in sin....Read Jeremiah 3...it proves Israel..apple of eye..the law keepers..failed him..he was only waiting for them to return.not to deprive them of love of forgiveness..
You will be accountable if u choose judgement over mercy for ppl...and restriction they are not called to keep....like living without a loved one forever in a new covenant marriage...after being restored to a new creature..Don't u think Christ new about the ten commandments better than anyone..but he said don't cast stone...and mercy is chosen instead as an example that those quoting laws...were focusing wrong..condemnation..not forgiveness.....10 commandments..say..don't steal...have u ever stolen even a pencil or penny? love the lord your God with all your heart...have u in all your days put God first everyday all the time? So if u repent u r forgiven...will u be considered a thief still after repenting? Will u be considered a heathen even after u start loving God will all your heart? NO ..new creature ..new slate..new covenant...mercy .grace and love prevails..once u repent....But since u broke the commandment....pharisees say.no u must pay for your sins..still classifed as thieves and sinners...heathens....that is difference between Christ and some men...He knows all things and makes provisions...alters law out of love...and forgives...even allows u to work on Sabbath if need to take your creature out of a well....same applies to this topic..though it is recommended to not divorce...not to sin..not break any commandment..to have one wife...we have to deal with things from past and move on to his forgiveness and start living right to please him....though we have sinned in many areas...and all those too on this forum..we move on in grace ....Nobody the exception here..nobody faultless without him..
I will put another post with this whole chapter to remind us all of how he is towards us..and how we should be like Christ as well.....Jeremiah 3.20 specifically reads...as a lover betrays her husband/wife...so do u betray me Israel...we all betray him without knowing..until we grow more and more..and he focuses not on betrayal...but return to me, my anger will not remain forever....once forgiven...it's over!!!! Everyone needs to accept that and move on....all sins covered by him and all sin......if sin acknowledged and change comes forth...we start fresh..new slate.....There are scriptures that call eye for eye..and barbaric..and now we are under grace and have understanding...Matthew 5:38/39 says don't resist evil doer and and bless them..not do the eye for eye thing and hold those commandments over them as pharisees did....as he will deal with them with love and understanding....if they are called to be his.....A scripture reads to stone ppl and we don't do that now..because the atonement is the blood of Christ to cover a multitude of sins.....for those that repent and start over in his grace and have a new life..and that may include a new spouse...Not our business..but between God and that person...lest u will b judged like those stone throwers! God knew their intentions were not good..and he proved on the sand..their sins in their minds and hearts..and even in action in hidden places that they committed.......so they walked away quietly! That is wisdom....walk away and pray..if u r not in love ......
Moses allowed divorce because some sins a man/woman can't forgive due to mind/flesh not forgiving and forgetting about a spouse that has committed sin against them....hardening of hearts to forgive...but he stated God hates divorce....he hates all sins I state & remind again...
Some ppl want to marry ..but aren't called to being pastors or deep callings...and have been forgiven and only God knows reason of divorce and if valid.......
David broke commandment but he could not remain chaste from Bathsheba..even after repenting and being forgiven......but he broke the commandments..adulterer murderer he was considered...and he knew it in his heart and repented wholeheartedly..God dealt with him personally..still a sin...like it was a sin that Cain killed Abel...though commandments not given back then...but innately we know when we sin against our God and what is true and good....Nobody like our God...none compares to his righteous judgement that sees right through the heart...Heb. 4.12....nobody else qualified to go into the thoughts and heart of man/woman..
And If God said that if you lust after a woman in your heart..you have committed adultery ! Why isn't that acknowledged by many men/women that have studied scripture when Jesus spoke this and it is written? Why ignore this part of scripture? Could it be that many can't keep this part of scripture and choose to overlook it?? That is considered adultery because u entertained it instead of resisting it like Jesus did..he resisted sin at all times though he was tempted...Only he is perfect..but yes we are not to give up and just say "we are not Jesus"....I am not condemning men/women for this....as God is their judge Yes it is good to admonish and bless with your knowledge of scripture..but we must leave the personal details to God! Or else we will be accountable for judging the heart and true situation that only God knows in a marriage...Man looks at the outside circumstances..God looks at the heart..it says in the word....we all want mercy for our own personal situation, but sometimes some want judgement without mercy for others...Sadly this isn't the heart of God for us to display this type of heartless action towards bretheran..much less to those new in Christ that are struggling with broken hearts like woman at well....
Any many husbands and wives that have been quoting scripture about marriage and divorce..that have been personally divorced to women/men who have been unfaithful to them they claim....Why did she/he truly leave you?I know some are truly innocent..not directing this to you beloved one...may God heal your heart truly....but this is to those self righteous that partook in some way to cause things to get worse...by perhaps mistreating spouse in an abusive way or some form of control or ungodly behavior... God will know the real details before you throw all the blame on your spouse...and u could of chosen to be be merciful and forgiving to restore marriage in many cases..but many have hardened their hearts and won't truly forgive like Christ does! Many don't show love, so a woman or man leaves..I don't believe it is normal for a woman or a man to leave a relationship that is truly Christ centered and full of love...Even heathens stay together because they love one another...though they don't have true understanding of God..
It is called for us to forgive.but u just cant remain together in some cases.....because u truly weren't one..and God didn't join two 2b one......only u and spouse know if God truly joined u...and u just gave up and didn't want to forgive and keep loving....or fell into temptation...
But yes God hates divorce..he hates sin period!!! He is holy ...Liars, drunkards, adulterers, fornicators, homosexuals, pride, greed, lovers of themselves, boasters, lawless ones, pharisees...etc....How many sins have we committed in last year or even last month or week? We have to keep in mind..that we can encourage others to do right thing and share knowledge of scripture..but we all are not perfect....and just as Christ forgives us..we have to desire that forgiveness for brothers and sisters...Yes it is better to remain in marriage if at all possible..even if husband or wife committed adultery..but that is every individuals choice and ability to forgive..and for the other person in marriage to be willing to try to change and repent...many intangibles.. That is why he is only one that can judge with justice and mercy..because he truly loves and forgives his people..and men/women have hardened hearts...
I am not saying u have to forgive and stay.your choice if spouse has cheated on you..but it is human to sin and divine to forgive if u r truly walking in love and so deep in the word! Hosea did it according to scripture..but he knew he was suppose to be joined to a harlot and forgive her...! He took unfaithful wife back over and over again..He demonstrated true forgiveness and love..not the stoning and unforgiving route..ultimate love story..By the way...I started reading novel that is titled.."Redeemed Love" by Francine Rivers who is based on Hosea's love for his unfaithful wife... .to prove that God does same to Israel and church.... he was given grace to have pure love and that part of God doesn't change...though he may chastise/ correct those he loves...though we and Israelite's failed him many times in our walk..and break vows due to our human nature. little ones perhaps...and even ones that other broke against us...so we have given up on such vows at times..he still loves and forgives when once we realize we have sinned terribly and failed him..all have sinned and have come short to glory of God..but by his grace we shall make it if we obey, love and serve him and keep getting up..as the righteous fall but get up over and over again...HOpefully the bigger sins are not a part of our lives as we mature in Christ...but to those that don't experience this true love and forgiveness and understand the deepness of this..how can one teach and admonish without this...compassion will be missing if you haven't gone this deep in him...personally..understanding his grace, forgiveness and unconditional love...but if we are his..i understand...if we love..we must obey commandments..but being mindful i can't 24/7 all my life..but i try hard and resist..and repent quicky if I fail .....if i come boldly b4 his throne and repent...he is faithful and just to forgive...is what he has taught me..and I am not talking about me failing in adultery...just any sin....we all fall short..and I am not defending sins...just his grace.love towards us....l
So good to keep vows...and laws...but they kill without the spirit ..and the spirit of God demonstrating love,mercy, patience I mean..This is in scripture! But many men and women not that forgiving like Christ..and sometimes abuse and marriages that should of never been joined out of disobedience..can be hard to repair..foundation is truly cracked...Jesus did divorce his wife..Israel....he was going to build a new temple...because she didn't align with repentance..So when vow is broken..divorce is called for....but he forgave her...took her back..the ones that truly repented..and they will be new bride..washed white as snow and sins not remembered! Those that quote in sickness and health and in good and bad ..health vows...etc.....man and state wrote those words for vows...not God! How many times was love not demonstrated in a covenant by both parties? It says I promise to love and cherish....sometimes we can't love someones actions that some caused..but then not responding as Christ would is sinful..being unforgiving.... God looks at a man and woman and he puts them together! Like Isaac and Rebecca...not like a state puts two together..or people pick a spouse without guidance of holy spirit/God....God didn't join two ..some couples join themselves without his approval..and it not being his perfect will and therefore marriage is struggle and not blessed from beginning or at some point it ..because they are lost and not in him at time of decision to marry...so that is another problem to contend with...unequally yoked unions are not happy harmonious peaceful ones...what does light have to do with darkness if one draws close to God and other remains in sin??? So many factors, but the word of God is true..I know and don't deny...but God is merciful and true to his word of mercy, forgiveness and love..And his love never fails and still greatest attribute he is and offers us!!!!!
However,it is life and it is good to correct in love if called of God and accountable to do so..but must be in true love..And God knows and will judge u for that too...not just the adulterer/fornicator and sinner! If you speak in tongues (Hebrew,Greek,Latin possibly), prophecy,even do miracles..know scripture backwards in Greek Hebrew or Latin, but don't have love, what good will it be??? The pharisees clearly didn't make it to heaven..though they followed the law to the tee and appeared righteous and just and good law abiding citizens! They also added so many more laws .....but the spirit of love, mercy , forgiveness was not in their hearts nor minds....They really didn't know the Messiah, just the scripture..so they divided it without true spiritual understanding..it may seem as they are correct, but their spirit wasn't and God singled them out in a hurry.....Vipers, children of the devil really..A form of godliness but denying the power thereof..What power...the power to be like our heavenly father..loving,patient, merciful, forgiving, teaching in love...fruits of the spirit.....Greatest is love, not being a scholar...though we should be like Bereans to study to show ourselves approved and then help others humbly..lest we fall..
Proof law kills...the spirit brings life and makes us alive!!!
Amplified version....
2 Corinthians 3:6 - [It is He] Who has qualified us [making us to be fit and worthy and sufficient] as ministers and dispensers of a new covenant [of salvation through Christ], not [ministers] of the letter (of legally written code) but of the Spirit; for the code [of the Law] kills, but the [Holy] Spirit makes alive.
..I have all the scriptures that I just paraphrased if anyone interested.....
But I do believe in correcting those in error..if God calls me to a particular person ..but usually it is because I am respected by them in an assembly and they accept my advice and have tested me...sometimes it is random and called to enlighten others, but I am cautious on how I do this, as it must be truly done in love, I don't want to be be another stumbling block to the person seeking healing and repentance! I want to offer hope, not just correction and condemnation!
Who understands Gods heart and his ways? Very know just a smidgeon of it... He is so much more purer and holier than any...full of knowledge power and everything holy and just..and he understands the complications of relationships...and the hearts...That is why i read to show myself approved..pray for his holy spirit to guide..repent daily of hidden sins and even those I fail at...HOpe that is everybody's prayer..so we can all make it!!! That is goal right???? That we make it and helps others! People know when u r sincere and loving and mean well for them..even when correcting...so I pray we demonstrate that here and wherever God puts us to speak his truth in love :)
One last thought.I do believe in covenants and vows..just that none of us are able to truly keep all of them..maybe some we have,can and should..but others in past we haven't...whether we were young, new in Christ or not strong enough to keep at one point...but with God's help we will be men and women of our word as he enables us and we grow in his will and in maturity in Christ....We should make allowances for those in different stages..just like God does and he is working on and perfecting.
Let his light and love ever so shine in us..that the lost will see and come to us ..so we can point them to the cross & not to hell !!!!
I will insert Jeremiah 3 and also Matthew 5 on a separate post ...as this so encourages me and gives me hope of his love and for all of our brothers and sisters :)
I am human and soioooo tired now...and I hope u know I don't have the energy to edit this..but please overlook things written twice..or repetition...I get excited and sometimes write things important to state..more than once..and I love those hurting and suffering and even those trying to correct...and enlighten...its the vipers i don't like...that appear to care..but stomp on ppl when down.......
God Bless everyone one of u truly! No matter if u r teaching, correcting in love..or just praying..hopefully we do all as we are called...
Another recommendation is "Radical Forgiveness" from author Colin Tipping.. if anyone still struggling to forgive a failing spouse..we must remain in love and peace no matter what others do to us...and we would bless others by praying for them to be forgiven....Forgive them ..for they know not what they do is what Jesus said on cross...if we are his children...we should have this in our spirit....not focus on wrongs..but on making it right! Those who are spiritual..help those that are down....
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 1 Jun, 2012 04:47 PM
Unconditional love!!!! No matter the case....
doesn't mean u r called to return to your husband...but love and forgiveness is required....verse 20 can be man or woman..
God considered the church the bride...but that is form of identity...illustration purposes..but he made man/woman in his image..so all scripture applies to both genders...
Focus of this is to show how he loves...he just demands acknowledgement of our sins..to return to him...all unfaithful at one time or another..and that is why we don't know what stage a brother or sister is in..and if God is convicting and working on ..in this season..we are to bless.pray..and enlighten in love...showing others the way that leads to eternal life...not condemnation!!! Blessings :glow:
Jeremiah Chapter 3 1-14 verses..and 20 also...all good...maybe u will read into some hidden wisdom of how Christ loves...I love this!
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 1 Jun, 2012 04:56 PM
Its good brothers and sisters to apply scripture with compassion..what Jesus did and I noticed.he overlooked sins often and even broke the sabbath as an exmaple and many no no's to the pharisee world...out of love and compassion....example ...eating with sinners..winos...allowed prostitute to lay at his feet...etc....and only demanded repentance of sinners that will obviously come in sinful state.......whether u kept law or not..though it was good for the soul and advisable to live prosperous and blessed....he knew we would come short...so he made provisions ....if we ever sinned.and we will...i lament to admit...but we are new creatures..and sin less and less by his spirit and word holding us up to higher standards by mercy and grace...
Here's Matthew 5 & on..... this even mentions oaths..don't make them..because u may not be able to keep them...unless God empowers u...really...its true...only by his grace we can stay in the narrow path...and blameless...
Lust
27 h See Matthew 5:21 �You have heard that it was said, i Cited from Exodus 20:14; Deuteronomy 5:18 �You shall not commit adultery.�
28 But I say to you that j Job 31:1; Proverbs 6:25; [2 Samuel 11:2] everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
29 k Matthew 18:8-9; Mark 9:43-48 If your right eye l [Matthew 13:41; Luke 17:1] causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into m Matthew 10:28; Matthew 23:15, Matthew 23:33; Luke 12:5; [Matthew 5:22] hell.
30 k [See Matthew 5:29 above] And if your right hand l [See Matthew 5:29 above] causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into m [See Matthew 5:29 above] hell.
Divorce
31 h [See Matthew 5:27 above] �It was also said, n Matthew 19:7; Jeremiah 3:1; Cited from Deuteronomy 24:1 �Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.�
32 o Matthew 19:9; Mark 10:11-12; Luke 16:18; [1 Corinthians 7:10-11] But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and p Romans 7:3 whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
Oaths
33 �Again h [See Matthew 5:27 above] you have heard that it was said to those of old, q Leviticus 19:12; 1 Timothy 1:10 �You shall not swear falsely, but r Numbers 30:2; Deuteronomy 23:21; Ecclesiastes 5:4 shall perform to the Lord what you have sworn.�
34 But I say to you, s 5:12 Do not take an oath at all, either by heaven, for t Matthew 23:22; Isaiah 66:1; Acts 7:49; See Revelation 4:2 it is the throne of God,
35 or by the earth, for it is his footstool, or by Jerusalem, for it is u Psalms 48:2 the city of the great King.
36 And do not take an oath by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black.
37 Let what you say be simply �Yes� or �No�; v [Proverbs 10:19] anything more than this comes from evil. fn
Retaliation
38 h [See Matthew 5:27 above] �You have heard that it was said, y Cited from Exodus 21:24; Leviticus 24:20; Deuteronomy 19:21 �An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.�
39 But I say to you, z 1 Peter 2:23 Do not resist the one who is evil. But a For Matthew 5:39-42, see Luke 6:29-30; [Romans 12:17] if anyone b Matthew 26:67; Isaiah 50:6; Lamentations 3:30 slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40 And z [See Matthew 5:39 above] if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, fn let him have your cloak as well.
41 And if anyone c Matthew 27:32 forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles.
42 d Psalms 37:21; Proverbs 21:26 Give to the one who begs from you, and e Deuteronomy 15:8; Psalms 37:26; Psalms 112:5; Luke 6:34-35 do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.
Love Your Enemies
43 f See Matthew 5:21 �You have heard that it was said, g Cited from Leviticus 19:18; See Matthew 19:19 �You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.�
44 But I say to you, i Luke 6:27-28; Romans 12:20; [Exodus 23:4; Job 31:29-30; Psalms 7:4] Love your enemies and j Luke 23:34; Acts 7:60; 2 Timothy 4:16; 1 Peter 3:9 pray for those who persecute you,
45 k Luke 6:35; [Ephesians 5:1; Philippians 2:15] so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and l Acts 14:17 sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 m Luke 6:32 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
47 And if you greet only your brothers, fn what more are you doing than others? Do not even n Matthew 6:7, Matthew 6:32 the Gentiles do the same?
48 o [Luke 6:36] You therefore must be p Matthew 19:21; 1 Corinthians 2:6 (Gk.); Philippians 3:15 (Gk.); Colossians 1:28; Colossians 4:12 (Gk.); 1:4; 3:2; See Genesis 17:1 perfect, q [Leviticus 19:2; 1 Peter 1:15] as your heavenly Father is perfect
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 1 Jun, 2012 06:41 PM
Golden Faith I see that you study scripture and I respect that. Anyone who teaches will get twice the judgement and I am aware of this when I preach. However, it is love and mercy that I present truth here. Yahweh is serious about his laws and in fact is going to judge us by the 10 commandments through Yahusha. I am not the least bit worried about being in trouble with Yahweh on this matter of divorce and remarriage. I have studied and been prophesied over and am a leader . A little leaven ruins the whole lump of clay so the truth and knowing it is all that matters. I haven't given my opinion on anything! In fact I have only quoted scripture and what it means by rightly divided it. The way that leads to eternal life is very straight and narrow and we have to pluck out one eye or cut off one arm as messiah warned us to enter his kingdom. This means that we do whatever it takes to repent from and stop doing adultery as he defines it. Yahweh defines adultery and not being able to remarry differently than you do my dear. Restudy please and ask that the Holy Spirit be allowed to show you into all truth.
ONE THING TO POINT OUT! When we are believers we are bound to the other mate and he said that in Matthew 19. He even reminded them that Moses allowed divorce between believers and then He said:" But I say to you whoever gets rid of there mate and marries another commits adultery! He said if your mate commits adultery you can remarry another and I won't count it as adultery. Adultery gives one a spiritual death sentence just as it led to a physical one by stoning.
Let me ask you HOW DO YOU APPLY HEBREWS 10 VS 26 IN WITH WHAT YOU BELIEVE????????
iT IS WRITTEN AND HAS TO BE APPLIED.
Yahweh didnt warn us about adultery and then let us choose the way that we will obey it! He said in fact he will reject our marriages that are unscriptural!
Let me make one thing clear! Messiah always warned of hell when talking about adultery!!! He was always addressing believers on this matter. Revelation is written to believers and he warns that adulterers will not be in the kingdom! This means what it says! There is no explaining it away. It is impossible for Yahweh or Yahushua to lie! Matthew 19 warns he will count those that remarry and do it their way that he will count it as adultery!!! If someone dies in their sin they will qualify for revelation 21 vs 8, 1 corrinthians 6 vs 7-11. You quote alot of things that sound good and alot are true but not on remarriage and divorce. As for David Uriah being dead ended the covenant with Bathsheba and why the baby conceived out of covenant died. He was an example to us to not do adultery and never to be used as an excuse to justify adultery in the aftermath of it! The woman at the well??? He told her he knew the man she was with was not her husband!!! See he keeps up with it !!!! He told her how many she had. Only one of them was her true husband she was still bound to him see and He acknowledged it! She went telling the sammaritans about him and they came out to meet him! She was accountable from the time she met him at the well just as the woman caught in adultery! He said go and sin no more less a worse thing come upon you to another one he healed. The worse thing is a firey judgement.
I WILL TELL YOU BOLDLY THAT I DO NOT BELIEVE ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED!!! THAT IS A LIE FROM THE DEVIL TO GET BELIEVERS NAME REMOVED FROM THE BOOK OF LIFE! YAHWEH IS MERCIFUL! He always gives us a spoace and time for repentence . Read revelation 2 concerning Jezebel and also read Eziekiel 18 all of it! If we go on willfully sinning we will stand before him as a worker of iniquity and he will say depart into the lake of fire made for the devil and his angels! Notice he says those that did the good deeds will he put at his right hand and say well done good and faithful subject enter into my rest!
You say people have sexual desires! Yes and to be met in marriage! However if someone who is a believer gets rid of their mate for another they will qualify for hebrews 10 vs 26 and rev 21 vs 8 while their innocent obediant mate lives! Yahweh said this and cant take it back or he will lie and thats impossible! When believrs commit adultery they can be forgiven and taken back if their innocent mate will! Yet they have to stay single and chaste if not to prove repentence because they forfeited their right to marriage and sex by willful sin!!!! This is hard but true! Also hebrews 13 vs 4 says Yahweh will judge adulterers in this life ! They wont get away with it here! Revelation 21 vs 8 warns of the next life too! James 5 vs 5 says adulterers are Yahweh's bitter enemies! Because in Hebrew adultery and Idolatry mean exactly the same thing and are interchangeable! To stay in an unscriptural marriage is to have another god before Yahweh!!! He will reject it!!!!
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 1 Jun, 2012 07:07 PM
Futhurmore let me make this clear. Unbelievers who commit adultery with each and on each other are going to be judged by every deed and sin they do and their names will not be found in the book of life! Yahweh counts their marriages too or else how can he keep up with and determine when adultery is committed by them???
If a person was an unbeliever and committed adultery and then becomes a believer they are a new creature and can marry another believer even if they did adultery because they didnt have Yahweh's laws nor his Holy Spirit to guide and keep them! Not true for believers who rebel and divorce their spouse who is a believer too!!!! This would be willful and breaking who Yahweh all ready made one flesh! If Yahweh has exceptions then why did the apostle paul warn the married believers in 1 Corrinthians 7 vs 10 and 11 that if they separated they had to remain unmarried(single and sexually chaste) or be reconciled to their believing mate ??? He said the messiah not I commands this!
Let me add this! I move in prophetic gifts and I say this humbly that the only good thing about me is Yahushua and the Holy Spirit inside!!! When I marriage counsel I usually don't let them tell me what's going on! I get in my spirit and give incredibly accurate details and this ministers to the two because they know then that what's being said goes beyond me! The Holy Spirit brings correction and does it lovingly by truth! When truth is received then mercy flows and restoration comes! Yet When I deal with willful Adulterers they try to convinced themselves that they can stay in adultery and still go to heaven? They say but I'm saved. I try to arrest their attention that Yahweh requires that they come out of their sin!!! They also will reap what they sowed for Yahweh isnt mocked! If a man or woman sows to their flesh they will reap eternal death . If they sow to their spirit they will reap eternal life! So they can't remarry another when their innocent mate wont take them back they reap!!!! Loneliness, sadness, on sexual outlet, etc. Yet they had this and blessing in marriage but had to do it their way. All of them also self hate for their sin usually so when one repents it takes great patience to bring them lovingly back into the body of messiah! Also the greatest hurt is done to the innocent mate they are the ones demons attack and they feel worthless and rejected and even doubt whether Yahweh loves them because of the sin of another who vowed to Yahweh and them to never cheat!!! If we are lukewarm=in the middle Yahweh will spit us out! He says we are either for him or against him! No in between!
