Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 2 Feb, 2012 11:28 PM
Thanks to a question about divorce and remarriage posted on another thread, I felt the need to address those on this site who may be suffering from the weight of guilt and condemnation heaped on them because of their reasons for divorce.
I wrote the following article, "The Stone Thrower", based on actual instances that happened on this site. If you are one of those who have been ostracized by others for having an "Unbiblical Divorce," please take the time to read. May it minister to your heart.
The Stone Thrower
I want to touch on a subject today that has long been regarded in Christendom as taboo . . . and that is . . . DIVORCE. Mention that word around some Christians and their hackles suddenly go up on the back of their neck. They pull out their proverbial stones ready to put to death anyone who they think has been un-biblically divorced. And to my shame, I was one of them�a stone thrower.
We all know the story of the woman caught in adultery in John 8:3-11. The scribes and Pharisees (the religious self-righteous) had arrested this woman and dragged her before Jesus. One has to wonder how these Pharisees caught such a woman "in the very act" of adultery. How convenient for them. It's amazing the depths of depravity the self-righteous will sink to in order to defend their religious arguments. Did they have the paparazzi spy on her to get some juicy pictures for the whole world to see?
At any rate, they dragged this poor woman in front of Jesus and proudly proclaimed, "Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?" (John 8:5)
Zowie!! These men can quote the Word of God . . . at least the parts that suit their fancy.
I like our Lord's reaction. "But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear" (John 8:6b).
Don't you just love it when someone ignores you . . . especially when you're trying to win an argument? But the self-righteous rarely lie down without a fight, and those religious Pharisees were determined to prove that they had the "truth." So they continued pestering Jesus, knowing that the Law of Moses was on their side. It's not a good idea to pester Jesus, especially when it comes to "pointing a finger" at someone.
"So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, 'He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.' And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. Then those who heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning from the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst" (John 8:7-9).
This introductory story of the woman caught in adultery has a purpose: I wanted you to have a glimpse of the mentality of a "stone thrower." They are usually self-righteous, ready to condemn, and can quote the Word of God. Ouch . . . I just described me.
I had a clear cut answer for the reasons one might give to justify divorce which I thought was quite Biblical. And in my mind, there was only one reason . . . "But I say to you, that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except for sexual immorality, causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery" (Matthew 5:32). There you have it�plain and simple. Who could argue with such a statement? It is the Word of God! I thought I had the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth . . . yet the truth is . . . I was ignorant of the ways of God. "For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment" (James 2:13).
And it was in my ignorance to God's ways that I threw stones at the divorced ladies on a Christian dating site some time ago. As a widower, I was on this site looking for a prospective wife. I was so appalled at the amount of women who were divorced on this site whose reasons for separating from their husbands did not match my view of scripture. In order to protect myself from these "contaminated souls," I purposely wrote something in my profile for those that I would consider as wife material: "You may be single, widowed, or divorced (must be for Biblical reasons only)."
When I would communicate with these divorced ladies, I would immediately ask them to provide details on the reason for their divorce. If they could not give me an answer of infidelity as the reason for their divorce, then I considered them unmarriageable. Yet God has a way of grabbing His child's attention when that child is in error.
One of the ladies on this dating site told me her story of divorce after I demanded it. Her husband was deep in bondage to pornography and had no interest whatsoever in repentance. The man had not physically hopped into bed with another woman, and so in my self-righteousness, I condemned the poor wife for wanting to opt out on the marriage. And the "stones" that I threw created fresh wounds in her heart while she recounted those painful memories of her husband's infidelity as he lusted after porn. According to Jesus' own words, her husband WAS GUILTY of adultery: "But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart" (Matthew 5:28). I ignored that scripture and concentrated only on Matthew 5:32. She lashed out at me, saying that she was glad Jesus did not condemn her even if I did. I have to admit, I was shaken by her story which moved me to tears.
Then there was another lady whom I demanded to give an account for her divorce. I threw "stones" at her as well when she could not give me a reason of infidelity for her separation. In bitter anger, she struck back at me, stating how her husband had broken her nose and physically abused her. I ignored the scripture which reads, "But God has called us to peace" (1 Corinthians 7:15b) and concentrated again on Matthew 5:32. However, her story bothered me very much just like the other woman's.
I began to seek God earnestly. These were only two of the many ladies who shared with me their heartbreaking stories of divorce. There were so many reasons given for divorce and none of them fell under sexual immorality (fornication) as I saw it. I sincerely asked the Lord to open my eyes. Was there any scriptural evidence to support these women's choices to opt out of a marriage other than infidelity? Yes, there was.
God led me to Matthew 19:3-12. The Pharisees were looking for a reason to trap Jesus in His words. Their previous scheme had not worked with the woman caught in adultery. However, if they could just get Jesus to say something contradictory to the Law of Moses, then they could brand Him as a heretic. So they asked Jesus this question, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?" (Matthew 19:3b)
Jesus' answer was, and still is, God's original intention for marriage: "Have you not read . . . the two shall become one flesh? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate" (Matthew 19:5b-6).
The Pharisees did not like His answer. For Jesus had taken them right back to Genesis before there ever was a Moses or a Law of Moses so that they could hear what GOD SAYS about marriage. Yet the stiff-necked Pharisees persisted with another question: "Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?" (Matthew 19:7)
Jesus responds, "Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so" (Matthew 19:8).
The self-righteous Pharisees were using the Law of Moses as an excuse to bail out on marriages for any flippant reason. And because of this, the Lord had some very strong words for them. "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery" (Matthew 19:9).
I can just hear the stone throwers shouting, "See, I told you . . . it's right there in the word . . . 'sexual immorality!'"
Wait a minute. Like Paul Harvey, let's hear "the rest of the story" before jumping to any conclusions. After verse 9 comes verse 10. Even Jesus' disciples, which would include us, were amazed at the words of Jesus. "His disciples said to Him, 'If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry'" (Matthew 19:10). Yeah, I can see their point. If sexual immorality (fornication) is the only reason for divorce, then perhaps we are better off not getting married.
But look at Jesus' response to his own disciples in verse 11. It stands to reason that if the disciples' statement was true, then Jesus would have said something to affirm it as such. He does not!
"But He said to them, 'All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given'" (Matthew 19:11).
What saying? The saying in verse 9 of course. NOT ALL can accept the saying that fornication is the ONLY reason for divorce.
Now notice that Jesus goes on to explain what He meant with the following verse:
"For there are eunuchs who were born thus from their mother's womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He who is able to accept it, let him accept it" (Matthew 19:12).
What did Jesus mean by this? He tells us that three different men all became eunuchs for different reasons. One was born a eunuch, another was made a eunuch by men, and still another made himself that way for the kingdom of heaven. They all became eunuchs for different reasons, but who is to say which eunuch is "God approved"? God accepted them all. That's the point!
Likewise, there are many reasons someone might seek a divorce: physical and verbal abuse from a spouse . . . being married to an unbeliever who makes life a literal hell . . . marital unfaithfulness . . . the stress of being married to an alcoholic for 23 years . . . or living with a pornographer who refuses to repent. Which one of these reasons for divorce is "God approved"? That's the point Jesus was making. Just as the eunuchs were acceptable to God regardless of how they became a eunuch, so also is a woman acceptable to God who seeks to be free from an abusive husband, even if infidelity is not involved. You and I cannot see in the heart of that abused person . . . but God can. For God has called them to peace.
And the church has done more harm counselling emotionally and physically battered women to stay in a relationship citing Matthew 5:32 "except for sexual immorality" as the only just cause for divorce. Women have actually committed suicide and murder under the stress of remaining in an abusive situation because their legalistic church counseled them to do so.
You may have heard of the case in the U.S. where a lady killed her husband (a pastor) who had been abusing her for years. God had called her to peace . . . but she never knew it, and one day she snapped. The evidence of abuse was so overwhelming that the courts found this woman not guilty of murder by reason of insanity.
I certainly do not want to imply that people should take their marriage so lightly as to divorce for every whim and fancy. I would not condone that, and neither does the Word of God. Every marriage will have its share of problems which can be worked out with God's help by two committed individuals. Yet there are some women, especially those suffering physical and mental abuse, who have reached the tipping point of no return; and the only thing they can do to preserve their sanity is to get out of that marriage. And ultimately, it is to the Lord they answer to, not you or me. He has called them to peace.
After God opened my eyes to the truth of scripture, I contacted those ladies on the dating site who I had thrown "stones" at and apologized profusely. I was truly grieved that I had been so self-righteous and blind, wounding those precious sisters for whom Christ died.
Now back to the story that I began with. The "stone throwers" had already dropped their rocks and left the scene with a guilty conscience, leaving Jesus alone with the adulterous woman.
"He said to her, 'Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?'"
"She said, 'No one, Lord.'"
"And Jesus said to her, 'Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more'" (John 8:10b-11).
HALLELUJAH�MERCY TRIUMPHS OVER JUDGMENT!!!
Blessings in Christ Jesus,
Paul Janz
(All Scripture quotations are taken from the Holy Bible, New King James Version.)
"The Stone Thrower" Copyright � 2010 by Paul Janz.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 17 Jun, 2012 12:15 PM
Thank you again teach ib for taking the time out of your busy schedule to share the Word of God and your thoughts. And thank you for your encouraging words to me. Your posts have inspired me to search deeper into the Word of God. I am reposting your thoughts and some additional scriptures on works:
"Obedience to the law/commandments cannot merit/earn salvation...nor does it keep us saved, however, it is evidence that we have received the gift of God, eternal life through Jesus Christ. Adherence to the commandments (although not a requirement for salvation) keeps in a good relationship with our Heavenly Father. Just like obeying the rule our parents establish keeps us on good terms with them."
How true. When we start adding works to either earn or keep our salvation, we are contradicting God's Word:
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works least anyone should boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9).
"For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
"For what does the scripture say" 'Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.'
"Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as a debt.
"But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
"just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
"Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin" (Romans 4: 2-8).
"Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
"But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
"even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;
"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
"being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Romans 3:20-24).
"knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
"But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not!
"For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
"For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God.
"I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life I live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
"I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain" ( Galatians 2:16-21).
"O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified?" (Galatians 3:1).
Paul had some strong words for those believers who once trusted in God's grace for salvation, but were now adding the works of the law to keep their salvation. If any of you readers are sitting under the teachings of such false doctrine, free yourself from (as Paul put it) those who have "bewitched you." Those who teach such false doctrines are not servants of God, no matter how many rabbis they boast to have sat under.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 17 Jun, 2012 12:17 PM
"Likewise, there are many reasons someone might seek a divorce: physical and verbal abuse from a spouse . . . being married to an unbeliever who makes life a literal hell . . . marital unfaithfulness . . . the stress of being married to an alcoholic for 23 years . . . or living with a pornographer who refuses to repent" "so also is a woman acceptable to God who seeks to be free from an abusive husband, even if infidelity is not involved."
Where is this verse in the Bible that states these as exceptions??
Anyone? Anyone?
Again, who is the legalist? One who states the law "saving for the cause of fornication" or one who writes their own laws??
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 17 Jun, 2012 12:17 PM
Singer, i didn't say you were in a cult. �You were bragging about the number of people who you bring in and who enjoy what you present.
I wrote: "Many people who are looking want something more complex to think they are earning their salvation. �Many cults continue to grow in size because they are works based...one has to do this or that and the iron hand of God will come down on you if you don't live a perfect life. �That is wrong doctrine as there is nothing one can do to earn or deserve the free gift except accept it. "
If you feel convicted by what I wrote, that is between you and God.
I happen to know some members of Messianic assemblies/congregations that have a very different view and spirit than you portray on this thread. �They are leaders and teachers...with more years of experience and study than you.
Singer wrote: �"I assure you I am in no cult! We believe in living holy but your baptist denomination doesn't teach or require this for I know I was raised a Baptist. They said Romans 9 vs 10 and 11 and thats all they went over getting people saved with a mental acknowledgement that god exists and you confess with your mouth that he died for you and was raised the 3rd day."
I never said the Baptists were perfect...there are many factions of baptists and not all believe the same way. �Even within factions (southern, general, free will, American, independent, etc) do all the churches believe or practice the same.
I grew up in a baptist church that taught what you believe now. �Going to a different baptist church and much prayer and studying revealed that eternal life means ETERNAL LIFE. �God is not a liar if He promised eternal life, that's what He will give to all who believe on Him and accept His free gift.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 17 Jun, 2012 12:20 PM
"A straw man is a type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[1] To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position" wikipedia
The continual assertion that somebody said a person is saved by works is a STRAW MAN..
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 17 Jun, 2012 12:23 PM
Thank you again teach ib for taking the time out of your busy schedule to share the Word of God and your thoughts. And thank you for your encouraging words to me. Your posts have inspired me to search deeper into the Word of God. I am reposting your thoughts and some additional scriptures on works:
"Obedience to the law/commandments cannot merit/earn salvation...nor does it keep us saved, however, it is evidence that we have received the gift of God, eternal life through Jesus Christ. Adherence to the commandments (although not a requirement for salvation) keeps in a good relationship with our Heavenly Father. Just like obeying the rule our parents establish keeps us on good terms with them."
How true. When we start adding works to either earn or keep our salvation, we are contradicting God's Word:
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works least anyone should boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9).
"For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
"For what does the scripture say" 'Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.'
"Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as a debt.
"But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
"just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
"Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin" (Romans 4: 2-8).
"Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
"But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
"even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;
"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
"being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Romans 3:20-24).
"knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
"But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not!
"For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
"For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God.
"I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life I live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
"I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain" ( Galatians 2:16-21).
"O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified?" (Galatians 3:1).
Paul had some strong words for those believers who once trusted in God's grace for salvation, but were now adding the works of the law to keep their salvation. If any of you readers are sitting under the teachings of such false doctrine, free yourself from (as Paul put it) those who have "bewitched you." Those who teach such false doctrines are not servants of God, no matter how many rabbis they boast to have sat under.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 17 Jun, 2012 12:24 PM
"Likewise, there are many reasons someone might seek a divorce: physical and verbal abuse from a spouse . . . being married to an unbeliever who makes life a literal hell . . . marital unfaithfulness . . . the stress of being married to an alcoholic for 23 years . . . or living with a pornographer who refuses to repent" "so also is a woman acceptable to God who seeks to be free from an abusive husband, even if infidelity is not involved."
Where is this verse in the Bible that states these as exceptions??
Anyone? Anyone?
Again, who is the legalist? One who states the law "saving for the cause of fornication" or one who writes their own laws??
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 17 Jun, 2012 12:36 PM
Singer wrote: "If not then man and woman up!"
"You two don't know more than Yahweh!"
"paul thinks his interpretation of scripture is better than the messianic rabbis who speak Hebrew and read Hebrew and they know more about scripture meanings than any of those in water downed christian churches. The Rabbis as well as my own studying and research of the Torah is the teaching I follow."
*************
Singer, you keep referring to the Torah as the whole Word of God; however, the Torah is the first five books of the Bible: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy. �Singer you are using terms/references incorrectly which leads me to believe and which I have confirmed with a multitude of Scripture that you are misrepresenting God's Word on many topics.
You have been the one who has repeatedly stated how many years of study you've completed and how you are a leader in your denomination. �Now you are implying that only the Rabbis in your denomination can read/speak Hebrew. �
The original scrolls of the Bible were written in Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic. �Bible scholars must be fluent in all three languages as well as the history of the times. �I have been blessed to have been taught by someone like this, not that he is the only source that I have been exposed to. �I evaluate all teachings I am exposed to and study for myself, as I have encouraged everyone who reads this forum.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 17 Jun, 2012 12:52 PM
Paul wrote: ""Likewise, there are many reasons someone might seek a divorce: physical and verbal abuse from a spouse . . . being married to an unbeliever who makes life a literal hell . . . marital unfaithfulness . . . the stress of being married to an alcoholic for 23 years . . . or living with a pornographer who refuses to repent" "so also is a woman acceptable to God who seeks to be free from an abusive husband, even if infidelity is not involved.""
Where is this verse in the Bible that states these as exceptions??"
1 Corinthians 7:15�But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.�
16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?
Often what occurs is the believing spouse leaves the abuser/sinner because of the lifestyle...or insists the abuser/sinner leaves the home. �Then the abuser/sinner files for divorce.
1 Corinthians 7:15 says the believer is not under bondage (required to say in the marriage) if the unbeliever departs (I believe this would also hold true for the believer getting out of the unbearable situation). �The intent could be to make the other person to get their act together and allow reconciliation. �However, as Singer pointed out with his ex-wife, the spouse doesn't always want reconciliation and therefore causes the marriage to be terminated.
The believing spouse who is the victim of the sin or covenant breaking (there is more to the covenant/oath of marriage than just faithfulness) is free to marry.
1 Corinthians 7:27�Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife.�
28 But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 17 Jun, 2012 01:45 PM
BobBobbins says, "Where is this verse in the Bible that states these as exceptions?"
"But He said to them, 'All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given'" (Matthew 19:11)
"neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks" (Ephesians 5:4). And where in the Bible, BobBobbins does it say when humorous talk becomes foolish talk and joking becomes coarse jesting? Your interpretation of foolish talk will no doubt be different from mine. That is why we have the Holy Spirit to convict our conscience when we step out of line.
"in like manner also, that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing, but, which is proper for women professing godliness, with good works" (1Timothy 2:9-10).
Now, BobBobbins, do tell all the women on this site what constitutes modest apparel . . .a dress down to the floor, a dress down to their ankles, or a dress going 1 foot 6 inches past the knees. Now tell them to throw out their jewelry and their gold wedding band and their diamond engagement ring as women who profess godliness. And also supply your address and phone number, so that they can contact you and give you a piece of their mind. :rolleyes:
There are no exact details given in scripture for what constitutes modest apparel. That is why we have the Holy Spirit to convict our conscience as individuals when we step out of line.
A man who looks lustfully after a woman is an adulterer according to Jesus' words: "But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart" (Matthew 5:28). You do not have to hop into bed and have actual sex with another woman to be an adulterer in God's eyes. Therefore any woman who has such a husband has every right to divorce him, unless he repents.
BobBobbins says, "NOTICE: Does he accept a truce? Does he offer forgiveness? Does he show any humility whatsoever? Does he offer his own apology?? What does he do? He demands that Singer must bow to his terms in order to receive the kingdom ( Paul's respect)"
Peter denied Jesus publicly 3 times. Jesus demanded Peter confess Him publicly 3 times.(John 21:15-17) Singer4u maligned me publicly. He needs to make a public apology. I was testing Singer4u to see if his apology was sincere. And just like your phony olive-branch offering, BobBobbins, the readers soon discovered the truth.
BobBobbins says, "This is an attempt to build an honest understanding through extension of an olive branch." Then BobBobbins follows with this statement: "Now he (Paul) takes a most haughty and prideful position - he can not be bothered to even address such lowly and ridiculous people such as Singer and I" . . . all I can say is you have a funny way of extending an olive branch. Perhaps you meant poison ivy?
"He does not say that I have misinterpreted the word of God." (you have) "but merely his articles. However, he does not show how I have done so." . . .really?
BobBobbins and Singer4u. There's really nothing more to be said to you that has not already been said. So I will continue to repeat it until you hopefully get the message.
So BobBobbins and Singer4u, you have been weighed in the balances and found wanting. Your accusations are unfounded and your interpretations of my article incorrect. Stone throwers all have something in common: They are usually self-righteous, ready to condemn, and can quote the Word of God. They boast in the keeping of the letter of the law while ignoring the weightier matters of justice, mercy and faith. And besides all this, they have one other notable characteristic . . . they are hypocrites. Matthew 23:23-28.
I have been FALSELY accused by you both, implying that I said Jesus sinned. I never said Jesus sinned. YOU DID! You made the ASSUMPTION that Jesus would have sinned if He had broken the Sabbath--I DID NOT. All I said was Jesus broke the Sabbath. Then you drew out your proverbial stones and said the following:
BobBobbins says, "Jesus never broke the sabbath. If he had done so, he would not have been able to fulfill the law. Your salvation could not have occurred. I am not sure where you get such ridiculous ideas. That is completely absurd and totally false."
My response: Absurd and totally false? . . .Really? "Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said God was His Father" (John 5:18). According to the apostle John, who wrote that scripture under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit . . .Jesus broke the Sabbath.
Singer4u says, "Paul and Goldenfaith both said in their writings on this forum that Yahushua broke Sabbath. That is impossible! You two should know better than that and to say it is total heresy!!! YOU ARE SAYING HE SINNED!"
My response: heresy? . . .really? "Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said God was His Father" (John 5:18). According to the apostle John, who wrote that scripture under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit . . .Jesus broke the Sabbath.
It is very clear in the Word of God that Jesus BROKE the Sabbath. It also says in the Word of God that Jesus NEVER sinned. I have no problem with both scriptures. It is you, Singer4u and BobBobbins, who have exalted yourselves above the Word of God to add your own interpretation to John 5:18. You both claim that Jesus could not have broken the Sabbath. Since when does your word override God's Word? You claim to be defenders of the Word, yet you are woefully ignorant of it.
"And when the Pharisees saw it, they said to Him, 'Look, your disciples are doing what is not lawful to do on the Sabbath!'"
But He said to them, "Have you not read what David did when he was hungry, he and those who were with him:
"how he entered the house of God and ate the showbread which was not lawful for him to eat, nor for those who were with him, but only for the priests?
"Or have you not read in the law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath, and are blameless?
"Yet I say to you that in this place there is One greater than the temple.
"But if you had known what this means, 'I desire mercy and not sacrifice,' you would have not condemned the guiltless.
"For the Son of Man is LORD even of the Sabbath." (Matthew 12:2-8)
Oh yes, Jesus broke the Sabbath, but He never sinned. He was WORKING on the Sabbath healing people, but He never sinned, for He was doing exactly what the Father told Him to do. JESUS IS LORD even of the Sabbath.
And now in regards to Singer4u and BobBobbins adamant stand on the reasons for divorce. Both of you have ignored Jesus' Word spoken in Matthew 19:11:
"But He said to them, 'All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given'"
You both ignore Jesus' Word spoken in Matthew 19:11 and quote only Matthew 19:9. Hypocrites! Is Jesus' Word spoken in verse 11 any less anointed than verse 9? You blind guides, you strain out a gnat and swallow a camel. Jesus said, ALL CANNOT ACCEPT the saying that fornication is the only reason for divorce, 'but only those to whom it has been given.'"
So Singer4u and BobBobbins accept that fornication is the only reason for divorce. Good for you. That's between you and God. Jesus said "ALL CANNOT ACCEPT THIS SAYING." And whether you like it or not, Singer4u and BobBobbins, the LORD JESUS makes it clear that He accepts other believers who have views on divorce contrary to yours.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 17 Jun, 2012 01:48 PM
I could take the time to exegete 1 Cor 7 to show all of the gross misunderstandings that arise from this passage due to sloppy interpretations such as the one that has just been offered.
However, what would that accomplish in this thread? Here you have two people who argue against reason and logic, contradict themselves over and over, misuse the Word of God as they choose and so on.
What value can come from another 2 dozen posts exposing these facts? At the same time, Paul willfully dilutes the thread page after page with his personal judgment that "i have been weighed in the balances and founded wanting, etc, etc.." making it difficult for the readers to even follow the dialogue.
Has there been any show of a willingness to hear on the part of Paul or Teach_ib? Remember, from the beginning, the vicious character assassination that I endured from both when I tried to shed light on the problems with the original article. Why then, after several weeks of patient teaching and exposing their bully tactics, should I continue to cast pearls before swine?
Perhaps, I will start a new thread to deal with the proper understanding of 1 Cor 7. I will prayerfully consider that as an option. To the many who have already reached out, please feel free to email me privately if you have interest in a new thread.
