Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 2 Feb, 2012 11:28 PM
Thanks to a question about divorce and remarriage posted on another thread, I felt the need to address those on this site who may be suffering from the weight of guilt and condemnation heaped on them because of their reasons for divorce.
I wrote the following article, "The Stone Thrower", based on actual instances that happened on this site. If you are one of those who have been ostracized by others for having an "Unbiblical Divorce," please take the time to read. May it minister to your heart.
The Stone Thrower
I want to touch on a subject today that has long been regarded in Christendom as taboo . . . and that is . . . DIVORCE. Mention that word around some Christians and their hackles suddenly go up on the back of their neck. They pull out their proverbial stones ready to put to death anyone who they think has been un-biblically divorced. And to my shame, I was one of them�a stone thrower.
We all know the story of the woman caught in adultery in John 8:3-11. The scribes and Pharisees (the religious self-righteous) had arrested this woman and dragged her before Jesus. One has to wonder how these Pharisees caught such a woman "in the very act" of adultery. How convenient for them. It's amazing the depths of depravity the self-righteous will sink to in order to defend their religious arguments. Did they have the paparazzi spy on her to get some juicy pictures for the whole world to see?
At any rate, they dragged this poor woman in front of Jesus and proudly proclaimed, "Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?" (John 8:5)
Zowie!! These men can quote the Word of God . . . at least the parts that suit their fancy.
I like our Lord's reaction. "But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear" (John 8:6b).
Don't you just love it when someone ignores you . . . especially when you're trying to win an argument? But the self-righteous rarely lie down without a fight, and those religious Pharisees were determined to prove that they had the "truth." So they continued pestering Jesus, knowing that the Law of Moses was on their side. It's not a good idea to pester Jesus, especially when it comes to "pointing a finger" at someone.
"So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, 'He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.' And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. Then those who heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning from the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst" (John 8:7-9).
This introductory story of the woman caught in adultery has a purpose: I wanted you to have a glimpse of the mentality of a "stone thrower." They are usually self-righteous, ready to condemn, and can quote the Word of God. Ouch . . . I just described me.
I had a clear cut answer for the reasons one might give to justify divorce which I thought was quite Biblical. And in my mind, there was only one reason . . . "But I say to you, that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except for sexual immorality, causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery" (Matthew 5:32). There you have it�plain and simple. Who could argue with such a statement? It is the Word of God! I thought I had the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth . . . yet the truth is . . . I was ignorant of the ways of God. "For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment" (James 2:13).
And it was in my ignorance to God's ways that I threw stones at the divorced ladies on a Christian dating site some time ago. As a widower, I was on this site looking for a prospective wife. I was so appalled at the amount of women who were divorced on this site whose reasons for separating from their husbands did not match my view of scripture. In order to protect myself from these "contaminated souls," I purposely wrote something in my profile for those that I would consider as wife material: "You may be single, widowed, or divorced (must be for Biblical reasons only)."
When I would communicate with these divorced ladies, I would immediately ask them to provide details on the reason for their divorce. If they could not give me an answer of infidelity as the reason for their divorce, then I considered them unmarriageable. Yet God has a way of grabbing His child's attention when that child is in error.
One of the ladies on this dating site told me her story of divorce after I demanded it. Her husband was deep in bondage to pornography and had no interest whatsoever in repentance. The man had not physically hopped into bed with another woman, and so in my self-righteousness, I condemned the poor wife for wanting to opt out on the marriage. And the "stones" that I threw created fresh wounds in her heart while she recounted those painful memories of her husband's infidelity as he lusted after porn. According to Jesus' own words, her husband WAS GUILTY of adultery: "But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart" (Matthew 5:28). I ignored that scripture and concentrated only on Matthew 5:32. She lashed out at me, saying that she was glad Jesus did not condemn her even if I did. I have to admit, I was shaken by her story which moved me to tears.
Then there was another lady whom I demanded to give an account for her divorce. I threw "stones" at her as well when she could not give me a reason of infidelity for her separation. In bitter anger, she struck back at me, stating how her husband had broken her nose and physically abused her. I ignored the scripture which reads, "But God has called us to peace" (1 Corinthians 7:15b) and concentrated again on Matthew 5:32. However, her story bothered me very much just like the other woman's.
I began to seek God earnestly. These were only two of the many ladies who shared with me their heartbreaking stories of divorce. There were so many reasons given for divorce and none of them fell under sexual immorality (fornication) as I saw it. I sincerely asked the Lord to open my eyes. Was there any scriptural evidence to support these women's choices to opt out of a marriage other than infidelity? Yes, there was.
God led me to Matthew 19:3-12. The Pharisees were looking for a reason to trap Jesus in His words. Their previous scheme had not worked with the woman caught in adultery. However, if they could just get Jesus to say something contradictory to the Law of Moses, then they could brand Him as a heretic. So they asked Jesus this question, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?" (Matthew 19:3b)
Jesus' answer was, and still is, God's original intention for marriage: "Have you not read . . . the two shall become one flesh? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate" (Matthew 19:5b-6).
The Pharisees did not like His answer. For Jesus had taken them right back to Genesis before there ever was a Moses or a Law of Moses so that they could hear what GOD SAYS about marriage. Yet the stiff-necked Pharisees persisted with another question: "Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?" (Matthew 19:7)
Jesus responds, "Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so" (Matthew 19:8).
The self-righteous Pharisees were using the Law of Moses as an excuse to bail out on marriages for any flippant reason. And because of this, the Lord had some very strong words for them. "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery" (Matthew 19:9).
I can just hear the stone throwers shouting, "See, I told you . . . it's right there in the word . . . 'sexual immorality!'"
Wait a minute. Like Paul Harvey, let's hear "the rest of the story" before jumping to any conclusions. After verse 9 comes verse 10. Even Jesus' disciples, which would include us, were amazed at the words of Jesus. "His disciples said to Him, 'If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry'" (Matthew 19:10). Yeah, I can see their point. If sexual immorality (fornication) is the only reason for divorce, then perhaps we are better off not getting married.
But look at Jesus' response to his own disciples in verse 11. It stands to reason that if the disciples' statement was true, then Jesus would have said something to affirm it as such. He does not!
"But He said to them, 'All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given'" (Matthew 19:11).
What saying? The saying in verse 9 of course. NOT ALL can accept the saying that fornication is the ONLY reason for divorce.
Now notice that Jesus goes on to explain what He meant with the following verse:
"For there are eunuchs who were born thus from their mother's womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He who is able to accept it, let him accept it" (Matthew 19:12).
What did Jesus mean by this? He tells us that three different men all became eunuchs for different reasons. One was born a eunuch, another was made a eunuch by men, and still another made himself that way for the kingdom of heaven. They all became eunuchs for different reasons, but who is to say which eunuch is "God approved"? God accepted them all. That's the point!
Likewise, there are many reasons someone might seek a divorce: physical and verbal abuse from a spouse . . . being married to an unbeliever who makes life a literal hell . . . marital unfaithfulness . . . the stress of being married to an alcoholic for 23 years . . . or living with a pornographer who refuses to repent. Which one of these reasons for divorce is "God approved"? That's the point Jesus was making. Just as the eunuchs were acceptable to God regardless of how they became a eunuch, so also is a woman acceptable to God who seeks to be free from an abusive husband, even if infidelity is not involved. You and I cannot see in the heart of that abused person . . . but God can. For God has called them to peace.
And the church has done more harm counselling emotionally and physically battered women to stay in a relationship citing Matthew 5:32 "except for sexual immorality" as the only just cause for divorce. Women have actually committed suicide and murder under the stress of remaining in an abusive situation because their legalistic church counseled them to do so.
You may have heard of the case in the U.S. where a lady killed her husband (a pastor) who had been abusing her for years. God had called her to peace . . . but she never knew it, and one day she snapped. The evidence of abuse was so overwhelming that the courts found this woman not guilty of murder by reason of insanity.
I certainly do not want to imply that people should take their marriage so lightly as to divorce for every whim and fancy. I would not condone that, and neither does the Word of God. Every marriage will have its share of problems which can be worked out with God's help by two committed individuals. Yet there are some women, especially those suffering physical and mental abuse, who have reached the tipping point of no return; and the only thing they can do to preserve their sanity is to get out of that marriage. And ultimately, it is to the Lord they answer to, not you or me. He has called them to peace.
After God opened my eyes to the truth of scripture, I contacted those ladies on the dating site who I had thrown "stones" at and apologized profusely. I was truly grieved that I had been so self-righteous and blind, wounding those precious sisters for whom Christ died.
Now back to the story that I began with. The "stone throwers" had already dropped their rocks and left the scene with a guilty conscience, leaving Jesus alone with the adulterous woman.
"He said to her, 'Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?'"
"She said, 'No one, Lord.'"
"And Jesus said to her, 'Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more'" (John 8:10b-11).
HALLELUJAH�MERCY TRIUMPHS OVER JUDGMENT!!!
Blessings in Christ Jesus,
Paul Janz
(All Scripture quotations are taken from the Holy Bible, New King James Version.)
"The Stone Thrower" Copyright � 2010 by Paul Janz.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 17 Jun, 2012 08:25 AM
Singer wrote: "Take note. Yahweh will do what He says only and He doesn't consult mankind as to whether He should or not!"
That is one of the few things that you've written that makes sense. Yes, what God does or does NOT do doesn't rely on what any man or woman thinks or says. God doesn't have to make sense to us. He applies mercy when HE chooses and if, HE chooses...not if you THINK He should or should not.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 17 Jun, 2012 08:53 AM
Yes, I labeled Singer and Bob legalists based on the content of their posts. �I even provided my definition of what a legalist is when asked what I meant by the term. �I will never say whether a person is saved or not, no matter their sin(s) as only God knows the heart. �I can say if someone is demonstrating the fruits of the Spirit by their words and deeds.
For people who are so adamant about the commandment on adultery, there seems to be a lack of interest in keeping the other commandments and directions from Jesus. �Loving your brother as yourself, be ye kind one to another, do into others as you would have them do to you, etc (these are paraphrases of principals in the Bible.
The name calling on this thread, the threats of violence (even 'in jest'), etc are not pleasing to God and would not encourage anyone to become a Christian.
Stating what one believes are facts or their interpretation of passages should not bring on the tone or often the content of many of the responses posted on this thread.
We should all think twice about what we are posting and ensure it is something that is truly glorifying to God, not our own opinion or interpretation...even if 2 million or more people agree with our view. �The only one that matters is God...even if He thinks our view is correct, He is often disappointed in how we present it.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 17 Jun, 2012 11:06 AM
Thank you again teach ib for taking the time out of your busy schedule to share the Word of God and your thoughts:
"Obedience to the law/commandments cannot merit/earn salvation...nor does it keep us saved, however, it is evidence that we have received the gift of God, eternal life through Jesus Christ. Adherence to the commandments (although not a requirement for salvation) keeps in a good relationship with our Heavenly Father. Just like obeying the rule our parents establish keeps us on good terms with them."
How true. When we start adding works to either earn or keep our salvation, we are contradicting God's Word:
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works least anyone should boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9).
"For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
"For what does the scripture say" 'Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.'
"Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as a debt.
"But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
"just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
"Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin" (Romans 4: 2-8).
"Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
"But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
"even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;
"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
"being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Romans 3:20-24).
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 17 Jun, 2012 11:53 AM
Lets the readers decide --
I found it truly humorous the way that some folks on this thread play word games.
Let's all be clear -- calling someone a "legalist" is name calling when you intend for something to have a negative connotation and you do so from a place of malice.. A person can not simply hide behind saying, I "labeled" them that way and NOT own the fact that they are indeed name calling.
Again, following this logic, who decides what are merely labels and what are names being called? Is a hypocrite a label or a name? what about a "stone thrower" is that a label or a name? And who decides that?
"Stating what one believes are facts or their interpretation of passages should not bring on the tone or often the content of many of the responses posted on this thread."
I totally agree and when I did just that (state the facts and proper interpretations of the scripture) what was I met with? Love, kindness, understanding, etc? NO. I was met with sarcasm, hatred, unkindness, names (labels), etc. Who were the perpetrators? You guessed it again - Paul and Teach_ib
I have done more than just say this - I have shown this from the facts in 4 of my recent posts - showing clear chronology.
Here is an open challenge to everyone: please go back to my original REFUTATION posts and prove that I did anything ill spirited, malicious, etc. Please show where I ever stated that " a person is saved by works" Please show from the content of my posts up till the time that Teach_ib entered the discussion that I am a "legalist". Show and prove it.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 17 Jun, 2012 11:54 AM
Paul, you have been extremely patient over the months and in the last few weeks. Sometimes the better part of valor is to not respond.
Proverbs 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.
Discernment on when to speak and when not to speak is a challenge. I have observed the posts over the last couple days and the posts have clearly re-exposed the contention of some on this thread.
Proverbs 14:16 A wise man feareth, and departeth from evil: but the fool rageth, and is confident.
17 He that is soon angry dealeth foolishly: and a man of wicked devices is hated.
Paul, thanks for sharing the various verses that show what an awesome God we serve.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 17 Jun, 2012 12:01 PM
Bob said and I quote:
"I am going to take the time to refute what you have written here because this is a very important issue. Your solution will mislead many people and as such needs to be addressed. I will do this in bite sized pieces in order for the readers to be able to digest both sides of this debate."
"I took the time to detail out the errors in your article for the benefit of those who might be seeking understanding in the matter and would be falsely persuaded to accept Paul's word over God's word. "
These were my stated intentions from the very beginning. NOTICE: Out of love for the body of Christ and those who might be misled to believe falsely, I took the time to address the errors in the original article. To prevent folks from sinning unwittingly because of bad counsel.
I had read this article many times and read the responses and saw first hand how this article has cast a stumbling block for the hearers. This happened before I ever joined the discussion.
NOTICE: There is no malice, no legalism, etc. but a sincere attempt to show the fatal errors in both bad reasoning and bad exegesis.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 17 Jun, 2012 12:01 PM
Bob,
I admitted using the term legalist...I used it in my initial post. I explained the reason i chose that term and hold fast to that reasoning. I have tried extremely hard not to use any names in my post...even though there are quite a few that have come to mind reading the "refutations" from you and Singer.
If I chose to ignore you or Singer, you have posted multiple items challenging me. If I do answer you directly, I'm called schizophrenic because I hold to a different belief.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 17 Jun, 2012 12:03 PM
I have been physically threatened and threatened with having the police called on me while out witnessing/inviting people to church. �I have worked in some of the roughest neighborhoods in the DC/Baltimore area.
��I don't have to threaten anyone in return because I have displayed a Christian attitude towards them. �If they do not want to hear, that is on them. �In fact, the Bible instructs us to walk away from them. �This does not make us cowardly, in fact it takes more courage to walk away.
Mark 6:11�And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.�
12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent.
By walking away, this often leaves the door open for the next time or for someone else who may be in the neighborhood.
True story: I had a lady chew me out over being in her neighborhood talking to kids even though I had kids with me. �She threatened to call the police on me. �I apologized for upsetting her, although I had done nothing wrong...in her eyes I had. �(I was scared because any police incidence could cause me to lose my job/career). �I maintained a meek and humble spirit/attitude and God blessed it as the next morning, she and her two kids started riding the church bus on which I served as the captain. �She was one of the most faithful and helpful women I worked with. �Several years later, she apologized for how she treated me that first time we met. �I told her I had forgiven her years before. �Had I talked back to her, told her I had a right to be there, she would never have ridden the bus...and many other children would not have ridden as she brought many others with her over the years.
I wrote this not to brag but to provide a real example how being meek can be rewarded.
As my mom used to say...you can win more flies with honey than with vinegar.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 17 Jun, 2012 12:05 PM
You both need to separate out Bob and Singer.... Period!
Now here comes the real irony. Paul continues to assert that Jesus offers "mercy without any repentance". And yet, when Singer offers Paul a truce, what does Paul do?? Does he show mercy?? Nope.. you guessed it, he DEMANDS repentance and not just private repentance. No, Paul demands a public display of repentance in his own honor. Hypocrite!
Paul said: "Singer4u maligned me publicly. He needs to make a public apology."
Paul, you have repeatedly maligned Singer4u. Where is your public apology?
Why are your standards good for one person and not yourself?
Paul said, "I was testing Singer4u to see if his apology was sincere"
Paul, all of your readers are now testing you to see if your words are sincere - to see if you practice what you preach.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 17 Jun, 2012 12:09 PM
If one can not PROVE or DEMONSTRATE from my own words that I am a legalist, then one should take back the name (label)
I have not seen any proof of any kind, whatsoever.
For the record, I grew up in a legalist Baptist church where they boldly applied their own laws and rules, such as women should not wear pants, men should not have facial hair, etc. That is legalism. Binding someone to laws that are NOT laws.
