Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 2 Feb, 2012 11:28 PM
Thanks to a question about divorce and remarriage posted on another thread, I felt the need to address those on this site who may be suffering from the weight of guilt and condemnation heaped on them because of their reasons for divorce.
I wrote the following article, "The Stone Thrower", based on actual instances that happened on this site. If you are one of those who have been ostracized by others for having an "Unbiblical Divorce," please take the time to read. May it minister to your heart.
The Stone Thrower
I want to touch on a subject today that has long been regarded in Christendom as taboo . . . and that is . . . DIVORCE. Mention that word around some Christians and their hackles suddenly go up on the back of their neck. They pull out their proverbial stones ready to put to death anyone who they think has been un-biblically divorced. And to my shame, I was one of them�a stone thrower.
We all know the story of the woman caught in adultery in John 8:3-11. The scribes and Pharisees (the religious self-righteous) had arrested this woman and dragged her before Jesus. One has to wonder how these Pharisees caught such a woman "in the very act" of adultery. How convenient for them. It's amazing the depths of depravity the self-righteous will sink to in order to defend their religious arguments. Did they have the paparazzi spy on her to get some juicy pictures for the whole world to see?
At any rate, they dragged this poor woman in front of Jesus and proudly proclaimed, "Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?" (John 8:5)
Zowie!! These men can quote the Word of God . . . at least the parts that suit their fancy.
I like our Lord's reaction. "But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear" (John 8:6b).
Don't you just love it when someone ignores you . . . especially when you're trying to win an argument? But the self-righteous rarely lie down without a fight, and those religious Pharisees were determined to prove that they had the "truth." So they continued pestering Jesus, knowing that the Law of Moses was on their side. It's not a good idea to pester Jesus, especially when it comes to "pointing a finger" at someone.
"So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, 'He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.' And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. Then those who heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning from the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst" (John 8:7-9).
This introductory story of the woman caught in adultery has a purpose: I wanted you to have a glimpse of the mentality of a "stone thrower." They are usually self-righteous, ready to condemn, and can quote the Word of God. Ouch . . . I just described me.
I had a clear cut answer for the reasons one might give to justify divorce which I thought was quite Biblical. And in my mind, there was only one reason . . . "But I say to you, that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except for sexual immorality, causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery" (Matthew 5:32). There you have it�plain and simple. Who could argue with such a statement? It is the Word of God! I thought I had the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth . . . yet the truth is . . . I was ignorant of the ways of God. "For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment" (James 2:13).
And it was in my ignorance to God's ways that I threw stones at the divorced ladies on a Christian dating site some time ago. As a widower, I was on this site looking for a prospective wife. I was so appalled at the amount of women who were divorced on this site whose reasons for separating from their husbands did not match my view of scripture. In order to protect myself from these "contaminated souls," I purposely wrote something in my profile for those that I would consider as wife material: "You may be single, widowed, or divorced (must be for Biblical reasons only)."
When I would communicate with these divorced ladies, I would immediately ask them to provide details on the reason for their divorce. If they could not give me an answer of infidelity as the reason for their divorce, then I considered them unmarriageable. Yet God has a way of grabbing His child's attention when that child is in error.
One of the ladies on this dating site told me her story of divorce after I demanded it. Her husband was deep in bondage to pornography and had no interest whatsoever in repentance. The man had not physically hopped into bed with another woman, and so in my self-righteousness, I condemned the poor wife for wanting to opt out on the marriage. And the "stones" that I threw created fresh wounds in her heart while she recounted those painful memories of her husband's infidelity as he lusted after porn. According to Jesus' own words, her husband WAS GUILTY of adultery: "But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart" (Matthew 5:28). I ignored that scripture and concentrated only on Matthew 5:32. She lashed out at me, saying that she was glad Jesus did not condemn her even if I did. I have to admit, I was shaken by her story which moved me to tears.
Then there was another lady whom I demanded to give an account for her divorce. I threw "stones" at her as well when she could not give me a reason of infidelity for her separation. In bitter anger, she struck back at me, stating how her husband had broken her nose and physically abused her. I ignored the scripture which reads, "But God has called us to peace" (1 Corinthians 7:15b) and concentrated again on Matthew 5:32. However, her story bothered me very much just like the other woman's.
I began to seek God earnestly. These were only two of the many ladies who shared with me their heartbreaking stories of divorce. There were so many reasons given for divorce and none of them fell under sexual immorality (fornication) as I saw it. I sincerely asked the Lord to open my eyes. Was there any scriptural evidence to support these women's choices to opt out of a marriage other than infidelity? Yes, there was.
God led me to Matthew 19:3-12. The Pharisees were looking for a reason to trap Jesus in His words. Their previous scheme had not worked with the woman caught in adultery. However, if they could just get Jesus to say something contradictory to the Law of Moses, then they could brand Him as a heretic. So they asked Jesus this question, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?" (Matthew 19:3b)
Jesus' answer was, and still is, God's original intention for marriage: "Have you not read . . . the two shall become one flesh? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate" (Matthew 19:5b-6).
The Pharisees did not like His answer. For Jesus had taken them right back to Genesis before there ever was a Moses or a Law of Moses so that they could hear what GOD SAYS about marriage. Yet the stiff-necked Pharisees persisted with another question: "Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?" (Matthew 19:7)
Jesus responds, "Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so" (Matthew 19:8).
The self-righteous Pharisees were using the Law of Moses as an excuse to bail out on marriages for any flippant reason. And because of this, the Lord had some very strong words for them. "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery" (Matthew 19:9).
I can just hear the stone throwers shouting, "See, I told you . . . it's right there in the word . . . 'sexual immorality!'"
Wait a minute. Like Paul Harvey, let's hear "the rest of the story" before jumping to any conclusions. After verse 9 comes verse 10. Even Jesus' disciples, which would include us, were amazed at the words of Jesus. "His disciples said to Him, 'If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry'" (Matthew 19:10). Yeah, I can see their point. If sexual immorality (fornication) is the only reason for divorce, then perhaps we are better off not getting married.
But look at Jesus' response to his own disciples in verse 11. It stands to reason that if the disciples' statement was true, then Jesus would have said something to affirm it as such. He does not!
"But He said to them, 'All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given'" (Matthew 19:11).
What saying? The saying in verse 9 of course. NOT ALL can accept the saying that fornication is the ONLY reason for divorce.
Now notice that Jesus goes on to explain what He meant with the following verse:
"For there are eunuchs who were born thus from their mother's womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He who is able to accept it, let him accept it" (Matthew 19:12).
What did Jesus mean by this? He tells us that three different men all became eunuchs for different reasons. One was born a eunuch, another was made a eunuch by men, and still another made himself that way for the kingdom of heaven. They all became eunuchs for different reasons, but who is to say which eunuch is "God approved"? God accepted them all. That's the point!
Likewise, there are many reasons someone might seek a divorce: physical and verbal abuse from a spouse . . . being married to an unbeliever who makes life a literal hell . . . marital unfaithfulness . . . the stress of being married to an alcoholic for 23 years . . . or living with a pornographer who refuses to repent. Which one of these reasons for divorce is "God approved"? That's the point Jesus was making. Just as the eunuchs were acceptable to God regardless of how they became a eunuch, so also is a woman acceptable to God who seeks to be free from an abusive husband, even if infidelity is not involved. You and I cannot see in the heart of that abused person . . . but God can. For God has called them to peace.
And the church has done more harm counselling emotionally and physically battered women to stay in a relationship citing Matthew 5:32 "except for sexual immorality" as the only just cause for divorce. Women have actually committed suicide and murder under the stress of remaining in an abusive situation because their legalistic church counseled them to do so.
You may have heard of the case in the U.S. where a lady killed her husband (a pastor) who had been abusing her for years. God had called her to peace . . . but she never knew it, and one day she snapped. The evidence of abuse was so overwhelming that the courts found this woman not guilty of murder by reason of insanity.
I certainly do not want to imply that people should take their marriage so lightly as to divorce for every whim and fancy. I would not condone that, and neither does the Word of God. Every marriage will have its share of problems which can be worked out with God's help by two committed individuals. Yet there are some women, especially those suffering physical and mental abuse, who have reached the tipping point of no return; and the only thing they can do to preserve their sanity is to get out of that marriage. And ultimately, it is to the Lord they answer to, not you or me. He has called them to peace.
After God opened my eyes to the truth of scripture, I contacted those ladies on the dating site who I had thrown "stones" at and apologized profusely. I was truly grieved that I had been so self-righteous and blind, wounding those precious sisters for whom Christ died.
Now back to the story that I began with. The "stone throwers" had already dropped their rocks and left the scene with a guilty conscience, leaving Jesus alone with the adulterous woman.
"He said to her, 'Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?'"
"She said, 'No one, Lord.'"
"And Jesus said to her, 'Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more'" (John 8:10b-11).
HALLELUJAH�MERCY TRIUMPHS OVER JUDGMENT!!!
Blessings in Christ Jesus,
Paul Janz
(All Scripture quotations are taken from the Holy Bible, New King James Version.)
"The Stone Thrower" Copyright � 2010 by Paul Janz.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 15 Jun, 2012 09:25 PM
BobBobbins says, "This is an attempt to build an honest understanding through extension of an olive branch." Then BobBobbins follows with this statement: "Now he (Paul) takes a most haughty and prideful position - he can not be bothered to even address such lowly and ridiculous people such as Singer and I" . . . all I can say is you have a funny way of extending an olive branch. Perhaps you meant poison ivy?
"He does not say that I have misinterpreted the word of God." (you have) "but merely his articles. However, he does not show how I have done so." . . .really?
BobBobbins and Singer4u. There's really nothing more to be said to you that has not already been said. So I will continue to repeat it until you hopefully get the message.
So BobBobbins and Singer4u, you have been weighed in the balances and found wanting. Your accusations are unfounded and your interpretations of my article incorrect. Stone throwers all have something in common: They are usually self-righteous, ready to condemn, and can quote the Word of God. They boast in the keeping of the letter of the law while ignoring the weightier matters of justice, mercy and faith. And besides all this, they have one other notable characteristic . . . they are hypocrites. Matthew 23:23-28.
I have been FALSELY accused by you both, implying that I said Jesus sinned. I never said Jesus sinned. YOU DID! You made the ASSUMPTION that Jesus would have sinned if He had broken the Sabbath--I DID NOT. All I said was Jesus broke the Sabbath. Then you drew out your proverbial stones and said the following:
BobBobbins says, "Jesus never broke the sabbath. If he had done so, he would not have been able to fulfill the law. Your salvation could not have occurred. I am not sure where you get such ridiculous ideas. That is completely absurd and totally false."
My response: Absurd and totally false? . . .Really? "Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said God was His Father" (John 5:18). According to the apostle John, who wrote that scripture under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit . . .Jesus broke the Sabbath.
Singer4u says, "Paul and Goldenfaith both said in their writings on this forum that Yahushua broke Sabbath. That is impossible! You two should know better than that and to say it is total heresy!!! YOU ARE SAYING HE SINNED!"
My response: heresy? . . .really? "Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said God was His Father" (John 5:18). According to the apostle John, who wrote that scripture under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit . . .Jesus broke the Sabbath.
It is very clear in the Word of God that Jesus BROKE the Sabbath. It also says in the Word of God that Jesus NEVER sinned. I have no problem with both scriptures. It is you, Singer4u and BobBobbins, who have exalted yourselves above the Word of God to add your own interpretation to John 5:18. You both claim that Jesus could not have broken the Sabbath. Since when does your word override God's Word? You claim to be defenders of the Word, yet you are woefully ignorant of it.
"And when the Pharisees saw it, they said to Him, 'Look, your disciples are doing what is not lawful to do on the Sabbath!'"
But He said to them, "Have you not read what David did when he was hungry, he and those who were with him:
"how he entered the house of God and ate the showbread which was not lawful for him to eat, nor for those who were with him, but only for the priests?
"Or have you not read in the law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath, and are blameless?
"Yet I say to you that in this place there is One greater than the temple.
"But if you had known what this means, 'I desire mercy and not sacrifice,' you would have not condemned the guiltless.
"For the Son of Man is LORD even of the Sabbath." (Matthew 12:2-8)
Oh yes, Jesus broke the Sabbath, but He never sinned. He was WORKING on the Sabbath healing people, but He never sinned, for He was doing exactly what the Father told Him to do. JESUS IS LORD even of the Sabbath.
And now in regards to Singer4u and BobBobbins adamant stand on the reasons for divorce. Both of you have ignored Jesus' Word spoken in Matthew 19:11:
"But He said to them, 'All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given'"
You both ignore Jesus' Word spoken in Matthew 19:11 and quote only Matthew 19:9. Hypocrites! Is Jesus' Word spoken in verse 11 any less anointed than verse 9? You blind guides, you strain out a gnat and swallow a camel. Jesus said, ALL CANNOT ACCEPT the saying that fornication is the only reason for divorce, 'but only those to whom it has been given.'"
So Singer4u and BobBobbins accept that fornication is the only reason for divorce. Good for you. That's between you and God. Jesus said "ALL CANNOT ACCEPT THIS SAYING." And whether you like it or not, Singer4u and BobBobbins, the LORD JESUS makes it clear that He accepts other believers who have views on divorce contrary to yours.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 15 Jun, 2012 09:29 PM
Teach ib you said no where in the bible is this ritual addressed =blood covenants.
I provided an example based on history of the Hebrew culture about what was meant for two to be in a covenant =(Yahweh's chosen people) about two walking between a torn piece of meat. This was similar to the covenant between Yahweh and Abraham.
You are wrong about marriage being a blood covenant. You need to study the old testament teach ib. What do you think the marriage bed cloth being kept by the brides parents was for teach ib??? It was blood soaked where virginity was taken on wedding night. a blood covenant made upon consumation of the marriage. She would be stoned if there was no blood and an accusation made by the bridgroom
Under the Old Covenant, parents kept as proof of their daughter�s virginity the blood-stained garment or sheet from the wedding night. If the husband ever accused his wife of not being a virgin when he married her, the bride�s parents would produce the stained cloth. From this the man would be proved guilty of slandering his wife. So seriously is virginity taken that the prescribed punishment for making such a scandalous false accusation was for him to be physically whipped, severely fined and by law forbidden to ever divorce his wife as long as she lived. If, however, the bride had not been a virgin upon marrying, she would receive the same penalty as any man or woman guilty of adultery (Leviticus 20:10), that is:
Deuteronomy 22:21 she shall be brought to the door of her father�s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father�s house. You must purge the evil from among you.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 15 Jun, 2012 09:35 PM
Yes Paul, I extended it but you didn't consider me worthy of a response.Did you? Singer also extended one to you privately by email days back. What did you do with that? You posted it up on the thread and mocked it.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 15 Jun, 2012 09:35 PM
Paul said "And now in regards to Singer4u and BobBobbins adamant stand on the reasons for divorce. Both of you have ignored Jesus' Word spoken in Matthew 19:11: "But He said to them, 'All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given'"
Really Paul?? I mean really?
Notice: I answered this weeks ago in my original refutations to Paul's article. This shows, just as I stated, he never read them.
This was REFUTATION # 3.
Problem 3: Your faulty exegesis of Matthew 19 leads to a totally erroneous understanding of the passage.
Jesus here teaches that there is no permission for divorce except for the cause of fornication. His disciples understanding the severity of this law and it's implication conclude then that it might be "good not to marry".
Since we can not lawfully divorce we ought to take marriage VERY seriously. This is the thrust of the text.
Now when Jesus heard the disciples response, he cautions them against adopting such a mentality ( that is - a mentality against marrying) since "alll men can not receive that idea". He goes on to explain that there are men (eunuchs for various reasons) that are able to abstain from marriage. Thus Eunuchs would be able to receive this idea but not others.
With the proper understaning of this text, the entirety of your argument is thrown completely out the window. The idea that Jesus is here asserting that there are many reasons for divorce and He accepts them all would clearly after he has already said that there is only one reason would make him intellectually schizophrenic. Such an assumption would clearly be blasphemous to the core.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 15 Jun, 2012 09:36 PM
Paul said "And now in regards to Singer4u and BobBobbins adamant stand on the reasons for divorce. Both of you have ignored Jesus' Word spoken in Matthew 19:11: "But He said to them, 'All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given'"
Really Paul?? I mean really?
Notice: I answered this weeks ago in my original refutations to Paul's article. This shows, just as I stated, he never read them.
This was REFUTATION # 3.
Problem 3: Your faulty exegesis of Matthew 19 leads to a totally erroneous understanding of the passage.
Jesus here teaches that there is no permission for divorce except for the cause of fornication. His disciples understanding the severity of this law and it's implication conclude then that it might be "good not to marry".
Since we can not lawfully divorce we ought to take marriage VERY seriously. This is the thrust of the text.
Now when Jesus heard the disciples response, he cautions them against adopting such a mentality ( that is - a mentality against marrying) since "alll men can not receive that idea". He goes on to explain that there are men (eunuchs for various reasons) that are able to abstain from marriage. Thus Eunuchs would be able to receive this idea but not others.
With the proper understaning of this text, the entirety of your argument is thrown completely out the window. The idea that Jesus is here asserting that there are many reasons for divorce and He accepts them all would clearly after he has already said that there is only one reason would make him intellectually schizophrenic. Such an assumption would clearly be blasphemous to the core.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 15 Jun, 2012 09:43 PM
Teach ib, you refer to me as being in a cult preaching a works salvation.
I assure you I am in no cult! We believe in living holy but your baptist denomination doesn't teach or require this for I know I was raised a Baptist. They said Romans 9 vs 10 and 11 and thats all they went over getting people saved with a mental acknowledgement that god exists and you confess with your mouth that he died for you and was raised the 3rd day.
This is all true except its with the heart believes and it's marriage vows to Messiah and it means more than a mental acknowledgement so there's alot more to the Torah - Word of Yahweh than this verse and John 3 vs 16 and the assurance passages you keep quoting. I said those you quote are true but there are warning passages that you won't and can't explain away. The same one who said this above warned believers in the 7 Assemblies in the book of Revelation that if they took away any of His words in the prophecy of this book that He would take their name out of the Book of Life=Removal of your name means the offender is going to the lake of fire. Your name only gets written in it upon believing in Messiah Yahushua and being born again made a new creature.
Revelation 22 vs 19
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book
Teach ib ? paul? Do you want to explain this verse away and risk qualifying for its warning????????
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 15 Jun, 2012 10:12 PM
Singer4u says, "No I never lusted for another woman while married"
Singer4u says, "However, I struggle turning the other cheek."
The Word of God says, "For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in ONE point, he is guilty of ALL. For He who said, 'Do not commit adultery,' also said, 'Do not murder.' Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law" (James 2:10-11).
According to God's Word, you are as guilty as your wife. By your own admission, you have disobeyed repeatedly Jesus' command: "But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on the right cheek, turn the other to him also" (Matthew 5:39).
Singer4u, you continually miss the point. You want mercy for your own sins, but show no mercy to others.
Singer4u says, "Paul, I never said that Yahweh wasn't merciful. However, he doesn't apply mercy unless there is genuine repentance"
God's Word says, "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were STILL sinners, Christ died for us" (Romans 5:8) This scripture says that God's mercy was shown to us while we were still unrepentant.
"And Jesus said to her, 'Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more'" (John 8:11b). Jesus forgave the woman caught in adultery before she ever repented.
"Then behold, they brought to Him a paralytic lying on a bed. When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, 'Son, be of good cheer; your sins are forgiven you'" (Matthew 9:2). Jesus offers mercy to this paralytic when there is no evidence of repentance.
Singer4u, you are beating a dead horse here. What further evidence do you need that God is merciful even to the unrepentant. Look at your own life. Where would you be today if God was not merciful? How many times have you committed the SAME sin . . .angry outbursts, lustful thoughts, etc., and asked God to forgive you and found mercy? Did you know that God does not reward us according to all that we deserve, or we would all be dead.
"The Lord is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in mercy."
"He will not always strive with us, nor will He keep His anger forever."
"He has not dealt with us according to our sins, nor punished us according to our iniquities."
"For as the heavens are high above the earth, so great is His mercy toward those who fear Him; as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us."
"As a father pities His children, so the Lord pities those who fear Him. For He knows our frame; He remembers that we are dust" (Psalm 103: 11-14).
"But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is kind to the unthankful and evil. Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful" (Luke 6: 35-36).
NO ONE on this forum, including teach ib and myself, is condoning sin or "sloppy Agape" (the idiom used for those who sin willfully and think God's grace covers it all). "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid" (Romans 6:1-2a KJV).
Jesus was constantly angry with the Pharisees for they lived by the letter of the law, but did not understand the nature of God, that He is merciful. That's why Jesus said to them, "But go and learn what this means: I desire mercy and not sacrifice" (Matthew 9:13a).
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 15 Jun, 2012 10:21 PM
BobBobbins says, "This is an attempt to build an honest understanding through extension of an olive branch." Then BobBobbins follows with this statement: "Now he (Paul) takes a most haughty and prideful position - he can not be bothered to even address such lowly and ridiculous people such as Singer and I" . . . all I can say is you have a funny way of extending an olive branch. Perhaps you meant poison ivy?
"He does not say that I have misinterpreted the word of God." (you have) "but merely his articles. However, he does not show how I have done so." . . .really?
BobBobbins and Singer4u. There's really nothing more to be said to you that has not already been said. So I will continue to repeat it until you hopefully get the message.
So BobBobbins and Singer4u, you have been weighed in the balances and found wanting. Your accusations are unfounded and your interpretations of my article incorrect. Stone throwers all have something in common: They are usually self-righteous, ready to condemn, and can quote the Word of God. They boast in the keeping of the letter of the law while ignoring the weightier matters of justice, mercy and faith. And besides all this, they have one other notable characteristic . . . they are hypocrites. Matthew 23:23-28.
I have been FALSELY accused by you both, implying that I said Jesus sinned. I never said Jesus sinned. YOU DID! You made the ASSUMPTION that Jesus would have sinned if He had broken the Sabbath--I DID NOT. All I said was Jesus broke the Sabbath. Then you drew out your proverbial stones and said the following:
BobBobbins says, "Jesus never broke the sabbath. If he had done so, he would not have been able to fulfill the law. Your salvation could not have occurred. I am not sure where you get such ridiculous ideas. That is completely absurd and totally false."
My response: Absurd and totally false? . . .Really? "Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said God was His Father" (John 5:18). According to the apostle John, who wrote that scripture under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit . . .Jesus broke the Sabbath.
Singer4u says, "Paul and Goldenfaith both said in their writings on this forum that Yahushua broke Sabbath. That is impossible! You two should know better than that and to say it is total heresy!!! YOU ARE SAYING HE SINNED!"
My response: heresy? . . .really? "Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said God was His Father" (John 5:18). According to the apostle John, who wrote that scripture under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit . . .Jesus broke the Sabbath.
It is very clear in the Word of God that Jesus BROKE the Sabbath. It also says in the Word of God that Jesus NEVER sinned. I have no problem with both scriptures. It is you, Singer4u and BobBobbins, who have exalted yourselves above the Word of God to add your own interpretation to John 5:18. You both claim that Jesus could not have broken the Sabbath. Since when does your word override God's Word? You claim to be defenders of the Word, yet you are woefully ignorant of it.
"And when the Pharisees saw it, they said to Him, 'Look, your disciples are doing what is not lawful to do on the Sabbath!'"
But He said to them, "Have you not read what David did when he was hungry, he and those who were with him:
"how he entered the house of God and ate the showbread which was not lawful for him to eat, nor for those who were with him, but only for the priests?
"Or have you not read in the law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath, and are blameless?
"Yet I say to you that in this place there is One greater than the temple.
"But if you had known what this means, 'I desire mercy and not sacrifice,' you would have not condemned the guiltless.
"For the Son of Man is LORD even of the Sabbath." (Matthew 12:2-8)
Oh yes, Jesus broke the Sabbath, but He never sinned. He was WORKING on the Sabbath healing people, but He never sinned, for He was doing exactly what the Father told Him to do. JESUS IS LORD even of the Sabbath.
And now in regards to Singer4u and BobBobbins adamant stand on the reasons for divorce. Both of you have ignored Jesus' Word spoken in Matthew 19:11:
"But He said to them, 'All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given'"
You both ignore Jesus' Word spoken in Matthew 19:11 and quote only Matthew 19:9. Hypocrites! Is Jesus' Word spoken in verse 11 any less anointed than verse 9? You blind guides, you strain out a gnat and swallow a camel. Jesus said, ALL CANNOT ACCEPT the saying that fornication is the only reason for divorce, 'but only those to whom it has been given.'"
So Singer4u and BobBobbins accept that fornication is the only reason for divorce. Good for you. That's between you and God. Jesus said "ALL CANNOT ACCEPT THIS SAYING." And whether you like it or not, Singer4u and BobBobbins, the LORD JESUS makes it clear that He accepts other believers who have views on divorce contrary to yours.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 15 Jun, 2012 10:55 PM
Sorry paul struggling with turning the other cheek has no commandment that the one guilty of it is breaking the law nor is it a damnable offence? However, lusting in adultery is can dam-n the guilty unrepentant of it as well as the one who does it physically without repentance..
I admitted it is something I struggle with not that I practice it. I have been witnessing and had people threaten me if I didn't shut up and they overheard me and wasn't part of it. I didnt stop and I told them that I wouldnt be their punching bag. I let them know some sins call for strikes! I need my health and my teeth and no one will knock them out and I have here in USA even state laws that guarantee this right. I try to live peaceably with all men
