Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 2 Feb, 2012 11:28 PM
Thanks to a question about divorce and remarriage posted on another thread, I felt the need to address those on this site who may be suffering from the weight of guilt and condemnation heaped on them because of their reasons for divorce.
I wrote the following article, "The Stone Thrower", based on actual instances that happened on this site. If you are one of those who have been ostracized by others for having an "Unbiblical Divorce," please take the time to read. May it minister to your heart.
The Stone Thrower
I want to touch on a subject today that has long been regarded in Christendom as taboo . . . and that is . . . DIVORCE. Mention that word around some Christians and their hackles suddenly go up on the back of their neck. They pull out their proverbial stones ready to put to death anyone who they think has been un-biblically divorced. And to my shame, I was one of them�a stone thrower.
We all know the story of the woman caught in adultery in John 8:3-11. The scribes and Pharisees (the religious self-righteous) had arrested this woman and dragged her before Jesus. One has to wonder how these Pharisees caught such a woman "in the very act" of adultery. How convenient for them. It's amazing the depths of depravity the self-righteous will sink to in order to defend their religious arguments. Did they have the paparazzi spy on her to get some juicy pictures for the whole world to see?
At any rate, they dragged this poor woman in front of Jesus and proudly proclaimed, "Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?" (John 8:5)
Zowie!! These men can quote the Word of God . . . at least the parts that suit their fancy.
I like our Lord's reaction. "But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear" (John 8:6b).
Don't you just love it when someone ignores you . . . especially when you're trying to win an argument? But the self-righteous rarely lie down without a fight, and those religious Pharisees were determined to prove that they had the "truth." So they continued pestering Jesus, knowing that the Law of Moses was on their side. It's not a good idea to pester Jesus, especially when it comes to "pointing a finger" at someone.
"So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, 'He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.' And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. Then those who heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning from the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst" (John 8:7-9).
This introductory story of the woman caught in adultery has a purpose: I wanted you to have a glimpse of the mentality of a "stone thrower." They are usually self-righteous, ready to condemn, and can quote the Word of God. Ouch . . . I just described me.
I had a clear cut answer for the reasons one might give to justify divorce which I thought was quite Biblical. And in my mind, there was only one reason . . . "But I say to you, that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except for sexual immorality, causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery" (Matthew 5:32). There you have it�plain and simple. Who could argue with such a statement? It is the Word of God! I thought I had the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth . . . yet the truth is . . . I was ignorant of the ways of God. "For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment" (James 2:13).
And it was in my ignorance to God's ways that I threw stones at the divorced ladies on a Christian dating site some time ago. As a widower, I was on this site looking for a prospective wife. I was so appalled at the amount of women who were divorced on this site whose reasons for separating from their husbands did not match my view of scripture. In order to protect myself from these "contaminated souls," I purposely wrote something in my profile for those that I would consider as wife material: "You may be single, widowed, or divorced (must be for Biblical reasons only)."
When I would communicate with these divorced ladies, I would immediately ask them to provide details on the reason for their divorce. If they could not give me an answer of infidelity as the reason for their divorce, then I considered them unmarriageable. Yet God has a way of grabbing His child's attention when that child is in error.
One of the ladies on this dating site told me her story of divorce after I demanded it. Her husband was deep in bondage to pornography and had no interest whatsoever in repentance. The man had not physically hopped into bed with another woman, and so in my self-righteousness, I condemned the poor wife for wanting to opt out on the marriage. And the "stones" that I threw created fresh wounds in her heart while she recounted those painful memories of her husband's infidelity as he lusted after porn. According to Jesus' own words, her husband WAS GUILTY of adultery: "But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart" (Matthew 5:28). I ignored that scripture and concentrated only on Matthew 5:32. She lashed out at me, saying that she was glad Jesus did not condemn her even if I did. I have to admit, I was shaken by her story which moved me to tears.
Then there was another lady whom I demanded to give an account for her divorce. I threw "stones" at her as well when she could not give me a reason of infidelity for her separation. In bitter anger, she struck back at me, stating how her husband had broken her nose and physically abused her. I ignored the scripture which reads, "But God has called us to peace" (1 Corinthians 7:15b) and concentrated again on Matthew 5:32. However, her story bothered me very much just like the other woman's.
I began to seek God earnestly. These were only two of the many ladies who shared with me their heartbreaking stories of divorce. There were so many reasons given for divorce and none of them fell under sexual immorality (fornication) as I saw it. I sincerely asked the Lord to open my eyes. Was there any scriptural evidence to support these women's choices to opt out of a marriage other than infidelity? Yes, there was.
God led me to Matthew 19:3-12. The Pharisees were looking for a reason to trap Jesus in His words. Their previous scheme had not worked with the woman caught in adultery. However, if they could just get Jesus to say something contradictory to the Law of Moses, then they could brand Him as a heretic. So they asked Jesus this question, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?" (Matthew 19:3b)
Jesus' answer was, and still is, God's original intention for marriage: "Have you not read . . . the two shall become one flesh? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate" (Matthew 19:5b-6).
The Pharisees did not like His answer. For Jesus had taken them right back to Genesis before there ever was a Moses or a Law of Moses so that they could hear what GOD SAYS about marriage. Yet the stiff-necked Pharisees persisted with another question: "Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?" (Matthew 19:7)
Jesus responds, "Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so" (Matthew 19:8).
The self-righteous Pharisees were using the Law of Moses as an excuse to bail out on marriages for any flippant reason. And because of this, the Lord had some very strong words for them. "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery" (Matthew 19:9).
I can just hear the stone throwers shouting, "See, I told you . . . it's right there in the word . . . 'sexual immorality!'"
Wait a minute. Like Paul Harvey, let's hear "the rest of the story" before jumping to any conclusions. After verse 9 comes verse 10. Even Jesus' disciples, which would include us, were amazed at the words of Jesus. "His disciples said to Him, 'If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry'" (Matthew 19:10). Yeah, I can see their point. If sexual immorality (fornication) is the only reason for divorce, then perhaps we are better off not getting married.
But look at Jesus' response to his own disciples in verse 11. It stands to reason that if the disciples' statement was true, then Jesus would have said something to affirm it as such. He does not!
"But He said to them, 'All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given'" (Matthew 19:11).
What saying? The saying in verse 9 of course. NOT ALL can accept the saying that fornication is the ONLY reason for divorce.
Now notice that Jesus goes on to explain what He meant with the following verse:
"For there are eunuchs who were born thus from their mother's womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He who is able to accept it, let him accept it" (Matthew 19:12).
What did Jesus mean by this? He tells us that three different men all became eunuchs for different reasons. One was born a eunuch, another was made a eunuch by men, and still another made himself that way for the kingdom of heaven. They all became eunuchs for different reasons, but who is to say which eunuch is "God approved"? God accepted them all. That's the point!
Likewise, there are many reasons someone might seek a divorce: physical and verbal abuse from a spouse . . . being married to an unbeliever who makes life a literal hell . . . marital unfaithfulness . . . the stress of being married to an alcoholic for 23 years . . . or living with a pornographer who refuses to repent. Which one of these reasons for divorce is "God approved"? That's the point Jesus was making. Just as the eunuchs were acceptable to God regardless of how they became a eunuch, so also is a woman acceptable to God who seeks to be free from an abusive husband, even if infidelity is not involved. You and I cannot see in the heart of that abused person . . . but God can. For God has called them to peace.
And the church has done more harm counselling emotionally and physically battered women to stay in a relationship citing Matthew 5:32 "except for sexual immorality" as the only just cause for divorce. Women have actually committed suicide and murder under the stress of remaining in an abusive situation because their legalistic church counseled them to do so.
You may have heard of the case in the U.S. where a lady killed her husband (a pastor) who had been abusing her for years. God had called her to peace . . . but she never knew it, and one day she snapped. The evidence of abuse was so overwhelming that the courts found this woman not guilty of murder by reason of insanity.
I certainly do not want to imply that people should take their marriage so lightly as to divorce for every whim and fancy. I would not condone that, and neither does the Word of God. Every marriage will have its share of problems which can be worked out with God's help by two committed individuals. Yet there are some women, especially those suffering physical and mental abuse, who have reached the tipping point of no return; and the only thing they can do to preserve their sanity is to get out of that marriage. And ultimately, it is to the Lord they answer to, not you or me. He has called them to peace.
After God opened my eyes to the truth of scripture, I contacted those ladies on the dating site who I had thrown "stones" at and apologized profusely. I was truly grieved that I had been so self-righteous and blind, wounding those precious sisters for whom Christ died.
Now back to the story that I began with. The "stone throwers" had already dropped their rocks and left the scene with a guilty conscience, leaving Jesus alone with the adulterous woman.
"He said to her, 'Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?'"
"She said, 'No one, Lord.'"
"And Jesus said to her, 'Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more'" (John 8:10b-11).
HALLELUJAH�MERCY TRIUMPHS OVER JUDGMENT!!!
Blessings in Christ Jesus,
Paul Janz
(All Scripture quotations are taken from the Holy Bible, New King James Version.)
"The Stone Thrower" Copyright � 2010 by Paul Janz.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 14 Jun, 2012 08:02 PM
Singer wrote: "I am very black and white on issues its part of my call. Thats why I'm in leadership and counsel. I even have a flock of new believers and unbelievers that come to my house that I minister to that my daughter and I have won to Yahushua or have them interested. I am very loving, merciful, and tender hearted. Thats why my ex-wife wanted to marry me in the 1st place. Also many others. I had many women intereseted in me for this very reason but finding one equally yoked . Many interested are unbelievers for I had sang in a successful rock band(singing christian based lyrics) and that platform offers that availability. Yet I will only marry one close to my level of understanding or its a waste of time and a step backwards in my opinion."
You have not evidenced a 'very loving, merciful, and tender hearted' attitude in this thread.
Many people who are looking want something more complex to think they are earning their salvation. �Many cults continue to grow in size because they are works based...one has to do this or that and the iron hand of God will come down on you if you don't live a perfect life. �That is wrong doctrine as there is nothing one can do to earn or deserve the free gift except accept it. �
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 15 Jun, 2012 12:15 AM
As always, thank you teach ib for your insightful comments:
"Many people who are looking want something more complex to think they are earning their salvation. Many cults continue to grow in size because they are works based...one has to do this or that and the iron hand of God will come down on you if you don't live a perfect life. That is wrong doctrine as there is nothing one can do to earn or deserve the free gift except accept it."
How true. I was talking to a lady today on another site who said that she was led from a Baptist church to join an Eastern Orthodox denomination. When my son looked up the denomination's official website I was surprised at their doctrinal beliefs based on works. Here is a small sampling:
"for the Fathers of the Church there is an intimate link between repentance and tears. There are other criteria, but grief is paramount, and its intensity is proportionate to the depth of repentance. 'Truly you are blessed, Abba Arsenios, for you wept for yourself in this world! He who does not weep for himself here below will weep eternally hereafter; so it is impossible not to weep, either voluntarily or when compelled through suffering.' Gregory the Theologian believed that everyone must weep. He even identified repentance with tears, whatever other ways of expressing it there may be: 'All must shed tears, all must be purified, all must ascend.' Symeon the Theologian is even more definite: 'Remove tears and with them you remove purification; and without purification no one is saved.'"
Here their teaching is that you MUST shed tears to have true repentance . . .you must shed tears to be purified . . . and you must shed tears to be saved. That's works. The Word of God says: "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, NOT OF WORKS, lest anyone should boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9).
"Altogether, the function of the priest should not be ignored or minimized. 'All who have experienced the blessing of having as their confessor one imbued with the grace of true spiritual fatherhood,' writes Bishop Kallistos Ware, 'will testify to the importance of the priest's role. Nor is his function simply to give advice. There is nothing automatic about the absolution which he pronounces. He can bind as well as loose. He can withhold absolution - although this is very rare - or he can impose a penance (epitimion), forbidding the penitent to receive Communion for a time or requiring the fulfillment of some task.'"
This earthly priest can withhold forgiveness of your sins, impose a penance or require the fulfillment of some task? That's works. Thank God we have Jesus, our high priest, who ever lives to make intercession for us, and says in His Word: "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9).
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 15 Jun, 2012 04:53 PM
Blessings everyone! I have been in prayer about this forum and seeking his will and wisdom..And I compelled to encourage everyone..the victim, the sinner, the stone thrower and the teacher of truth.....
Everyone do everything in understanding and love...and the ones that aren't true...they will be judged...
The law is perfect..but only one can fulfill...and we can fulfill him because he takes our place to meet such a high standard...so grace abounds and his mercy mixed with much love..which covers a multitude of sins...
You have to seek him out to truly understand the state of humanity and the flawed nature that we are in compared to his holiness..but yet not feel the condemnation that is rooted and comes from satan and his forces when we fail..and we all do..we come short to the glory of God..every one of us..but hopefully we are transforming daily and he enlightens and sustains us! It is such a mystery..his love and forgive..his grace...
So instead of judging..his word does it to convict and purify and cause change to come forth...but then we have to understand his deep love for us..and if we can have his view and his compassion..the condemnation that many are displaying and sending signals of...can change into a message of hope, forgiveness, redeeming love....
I pray we all seek his perfect will..accept his love, mercy and grace for others..such as he offered to us...when we were miserable wretches....and still often fail as humans...
only his fragrance and spirit in us..can make something beautiful of our ashes....Let us embrace the word-his truth..enlighten others in true compassion understanding and love...as our father displayed...being patient to teach..not repelling ppl...many ppl want to learn and they desire to start over and live right..so we have to use wisdom in reaching them..and helping them recover and live an abundant fruitful life....not live under condemnation ..but freely love and serve our heavenly father and seek out to please him out of pure gratitude and love. When ppl recognize how much he loves us all and he only desires to prosper us in all areas of our life...and when they realize why we teach ...out of love not condemnation..then they will be revealed the truth...epiphany will come forth!
Here is a wonderful passage he led me to - today!
Psalms 51
Be encouragaged brothers sisters...and let our light shine so before all the world and his love exude through our very being....that they are drawn to his wonderful light and be saved and transformed daily! So the master will be please with us..and the reward of his sufferings will surrender to him..and be eternally his!
That is the goal...not to be tear down, but build up the kingdom...he will deal with the sinner who refused to repent and judge accordingly as only he can read the heart and mind..intentions truly deep within....But many are getting more revelation daily and yearly...building on his understanding..slowly but surely....and let all that will come....come as they are....and he will wash their garments and make them pure and holy..acceptable in his sight...as they grow in truth and become his followers!!!!
PSALMS 51 I will add to this post...to show his grace, mercy, forgiveness above all.....
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 15 Jun, 2012 04:58 PM
Psalms 51 He is blameless to judge with purity, holiness, righteousness, all knowing.......Who is like him?
This is for the sinner, the stone thrower, the victim, the teacher of his word......all of us whichever category you fall into....
Be gracious to me, O God, according to Your lovingkindness; According to the greatness of Your compassion blot out my transgressions. (Psalm 51:1)
Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity And cleanse me from my sin. (Psalm 51:2)
For I know my transgressions, And my sin is ever before me. (Psalm 51:3)
Against You, You only, I have sinned And done what is evil in Your sight, So that You are justified when You speak And blameless when You judge. (Psalm 51:4)
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me. (Psalm 51:5)
Behold, You desire truth in the innermost being, And in the hidden part You will make me know wisdom. (Psalm 51:6)
Purify me with hyssop, and I shall be clean; Wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow. (Psalm 51:7)
Make me to hear joy and gladness, Let the bones which You have broken rejoice. (Psalm 51:8)
Hide Your face from my sins And blot out all my iniquities. (Psalm 51:9)
Create in me a clean heart, O God, And renew a steadfast spirit within me. (Psalm 51:10)
Do not cast me away from Your presence And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me. (Psalm 51:11)
Restore to me the joy of Your salvation And sustain me with a willing spirit. (Psalm 51:12)
Then I will teach transgressors Your ways, And sinners will be converted to You. (Psalm 51:13)
Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, the God of my salvation; Then my tongue will joyfully sing of Your righteousness. (Psalm 51:14)
O Lord, open my lips, That my mouth may declare Your praise. (Psalm 51:15)
For You do not delight in sacrifice, otherwise I would give it; You are not pleased with burnt offering. (Psalm 51:16)
The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; A broken and a contrite heart, O God, You will not despise. (Psalm 51:17)
By Your favor do good to Zion; Build the walls of Jerusalem. (Psalm 51:18)
Then You will delight in righteous sacrifices, In burnt offering and whole burnt offering; Then young bulls will be offered on Your altar. (Psalm 51:19)
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 15 Jun, 2012 05:46 PM
GoldenFaith,
Thank you for the intention behind your recent posts. It is clear that you are trying to be a peacemaker. I am sure that I don't agree with everything that you have stated detail for detail. However, I can agree with the spirit of your words.
Sometimes, a parent will walk into a room and find to kids squabbling and immediately scold them both. Whereas, if they took the time to weed out the facts, they would find that both kids are not guilty of the same offenses and in the same proportions. This is where injustices occur. Such is the case in this thread.
Let me highlight this fact with the factual chronological sequence of events in this thread.
I had crossed paths with the OP's article more than one time, taking the time to read follow up comments each time. I was finally compelled to offer a 4 point refutation of the core points from the article because I strongly felt people were being misled by it's content.
With my first post, I announced my intention in direct fashion with the following words:
BobBobbins -"I am going to take the time to refute what you have written here because this is a very important issue. Your solution will mislead many people and as such needs to be addressed. I will do this in bite sized pieces in order for the readers to be able to digest both sides of this debate."
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 15 Jun, 2012 06:02 PM
Part 2 in the sequence of events.
I then posted my refutation of Paul's article in 4 parts - each part serving as a direct response to a major point in his article. Doing so would enable the readers to digest my argument in smaller and more specific pieces.
This was the first response from the OP (Paul) and I quote
"Thank you BobBobbins for giving us your garrulous opinions. Your accusations are unfounded and your interpretations of my article incorrect. Like the person before you, you are creating arguments and rabbit trails that have nothing to do with the article. Stone throwers all have something in common: They are usually self-righteous, ready to condemn, and can quote the Word of God. They boast in the keeping of the letter of the law while ignoring the weightier matters of justice, mercy and faith. And besides all this, they have one other notable characteristic . . . they are hypocrites."
In his response, he quickly adopts a tone of sarcasm and condescension. He then goes on to state that I have made "accusations" and "that I misinterpreted his article" NOTICE: He does not say that I have misinterpreted the word of God.. but merely his articles. However, he does not show how I have done so. He merely assumes this into evidence against me. ** One would think that if I misunderstood something in his article, he would be patient and charitable enough to restate the parts that he believes I misunderstood, so that I might gain clarity. However, he doesn't do so.
Next, he claims that I have created "arguments and rabbit trails that have nothing to do with his article" NOTICE: he does NOT show or prove this in anyway. Also, anyone can go back to my refutations and see that they are clearly right on point and directly address four major points in his article.
Next he begins his personal attack where he precedes to call me a "stone thrower, self righteous, ready to condemn and most notably a hypocrite" NOTICE: What has he done here? He is immediately throwing stones.
NOTICE: He never takes the time to refute my argument but merely to offer his negative words followed in closing with his "blessings"
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 15 Jun, 2012 06:12 PM
Moving forward in the sequence of events.....
In my next response to Paul, I do not call him names nor return his unkind words with unkind words. I simply reiterate my intentions and I quote:
"I took the time to detail out the errors in your article for the benefit of those who might be seeking understanding in the matter and would be falsely persuaded to accept Paul's word over God's word. "
After trying to clarify things with him, later in the thread he goes on to say and I quote:
"BobBobbins and Singer4U . . . I will not even bother addressing your railing and false accusations against me�they are simply too ridiculous to even warrant my time." What has clearly manifested here is that my article has drawn out into the open two stone throwers. At least now we know who you are. Thank you."
Now he takes a most haughty and prideful position - he can not be bothered to even address such lowly and ridiculous people such as Singer and I. NOTICE: He still has never addressed any of the points from my refutations to his article. Nor has he shown where I have accused him of anything. He has not clearly demonstrated that I had any intentions other than those that I had clearly stated from the beginning.
Once again, he concludes his remarks with more name calling.
These are the facts and they are not disputable. The posts are there for anyone who wants to review them.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 15 Jun, 2012 06:23 PM
Now lets see where Teach_ib enter the dialogue. Does she come in with "love and understanding"? Let's see for ourselves.
Teach_ib: "Thank you Really_54 for this thread. Ironically, I went through a self study on the issue of divorce and remarriage during this the timing of this thread although I am just now reading through it. Going through divorce for any reason is not something taken lightly and being judged/condemned on every hand by people who are legalists such as BobBobbins and Singer4u only compounds the pain."
She announces herself by thanking Paul for starting the thread and them immediately begins her verbal assault. She assumes that Singer and myself are "judgmental and condemning". NOTICE: she does not show or prove her assertion in anyway. She merely states that it is so because she says so.(as if she is somehow capable of knowing our hearts on the matter.) Also, she ignores my plain pronouncement of my own intentions and substitutes her own faulty conclusions.
What does she do next? You guessed it, she follows Paul's lead and starts name calling. We are according to her "legalists and pain compounders"
Is this a demonstration of christian charity and understanding? Let the readers decide for themselves.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 15 Jun, 2012 09:10 PM
paul, sigh.
No I never lusted for another woman while married. I made a covenant with my eyes as Job did. I kept my word and didn't let anything enter my mind. Sorry to disapoint you but absolutely no. Thats not my weakness. However, I struggle turning the other cheek. I don't let the wicked threaten me when out witnessing and or anywhere.
I let them know when they threaten me that they just may ene up on the receiving end of what they say to me.
That's the truth accept it or not.
So no paul I'm not guilty as the ex-wife is! I didn't do what she did not even in my heart.
