Author	Thread: obama is goin against christian morals..
Admin	obama is goin against christian morals.. Posted : 10 Oct, 2009 07:42 PM dear folks, i just read where obama was quoted as saying to the gay rights folks.. that he will change the law and allow them to comeout in the military and also to change state laws to allow gay partners to be able to obtain marriages and the rights as a married couple.. this man is going against all that GOD moraly asks of HIS people. proposing and promising to make the law changes to allow all of this.. its against biblical.. and should be stopped.. cast your vote and let your christian views be held up. speak out on said subjects.. ole cattle Post Reply
explor_r View Profile History	obama is goin against christian morals.. Posted : 12 Oct, 2009 07:08 PM Back before the 60's when the programs were put into place to help the poor, sick & elderly with the programs who took care of the sick, elderly & poor? The family, the church & community. Unfortunatelly that is for the most part no longer true. So, since the programs are here then do you propose that poor, elderly & sick die? It is not a question of eigther poor, elderly & sick or an unborn child that due to the mothers circumstances or views should dissregard & throw away the baby or to throw away the poor, sick & elderly. Why do you state that it is a bad thing to take care & preserve life in any circumstance? All are precious & worth life not one or another. Life is to be valued by all not just the rich or the innocent unborn but by all. Post Reply
View Profile History	obama is goin against christian morals.. Posted : 13 Oct, 2009 05:53 AM > Yes, that IS true! IN the Early days of America, we had thousands of Jewish > and Christian charities, and they did a lot more than just pay bills and buy > things for those in need. > > Good charity back then also meant Biblical counseling to drunkards, to > gamblers, to child abusers, etc. > > It also meant blacklisting those who attempted to USE charitable > organizations and did not attempt to better their own conditions. > > This is a CRUCIAL part of true biblical charity, and EVERY charitable > organization was clear and strict about this! > > Of course the socialists in those days, were already saying in the > Newspapers that "Government can do charity better than all those private > Christian and Jewish groups", and by the time the Great Depression came, the > wheels were already greased for a government takeover! > > Their idea of "charity" was bad charity because they made no distinction > between those who were truly needy, and just needed a hand UP, and those who > would just USE the system as a hammock! > > And look what we have now! Millions of lazy, shiftless USERS who LIVE OFF > the hard work of others. > > And this is an important concept to remember when ever somebody says that > there is not enough Christian charities to take care of the poor: > > "Bad charity drives out good charity" > > Meaning is a guy's hands are shaking from lack of booze, and he has two > choices, the Christian charity who wants him to chop firewood, and they will > pay his rent, OR.....the government "charity" that will give him a > check...GUESS which one he goes for? > > Socialism is EVIL. > Of course Christians are obligated by the Word of God to take care of the > > "priests" and "the poor," but never does God's Word authorize the civil > > government to tax people and redistribute wealth for these goals. Each of > > these measures was part of God's law, but not part of the subset of God's > > law that established and limited civil law. To make this point clearer, > let > > us look briefly at each of the instances our Chaplain relates: > > > > 1. the priests and 2. Levites: The Old Testament law required that a > portion > > of yearly tithes go to support the priests and Levites. The priests and > > Levites were the temple workers and servers for the twelve tribes. No one > > else was allowed to perform these offices. The offices themselves came at > a > > price: priests and Levites were not allowed to own land. In exchange for > not > > having their own productive capital, God mandated they live off of the > > charity of those who did. > > > > Yet God nowhere said that the civil rulers could use the force of the > sword > > of the State in order to collect this tithe. The civil authority had no > > power to collect it by force, nor to punish those who did not pay up. It > was > > for this reason that the prophet Malachi could complain about the people > > "robbing God," for they were not paying their tithes (Mal. 3:8-12). The > > punishment was not to send tax agents knocking on doors or garnishing of > > wages. The punishment was left up to God, Who Himself could bring > punishment > > in the form of historical sanctions: captivity, plague, etc. God would > also > > pour out financial blessing upon obedience (Mal. 3:10-12). God was very > > serious about the tithe, but He did not empower the State to carry it out. > > No Socialism here. > > > > An exception to this may appear in Nehemiah's reinstitution of the law in > > Neh. 12:44; 13:10-13. But this was Nehemiah's solution to the problem, and > > not explicitly commanded by God. Even here, it does not say that the > > "rulers" and collectors mentioned were empowered with the sword to do the > > collecting or punish those who refused. Further, they did not even have > the > > knowledge of how much each household had in order to verify that what was > > given was a tithe. No IRS here. No Socialism here. > > > > 3. the poor: There were several "poor laws" in the Old Testament; none of > > them involved State Socialism. The yearly tithe went to the Levites at a > > national level, at a central national location. Every third year, however, > > the tithe remained locally, and was distributed locally to the resident > > Levites, aliens, orphans and widows (Deut. 14:28-29) (it says nothing of > > "the poor" in general). Again, nothing is said of government power to > > collect these tithes or punish those who did not give. The Israelites were > > expected to give voluntarily and themselves knew God would punish them if > > they refused, and bless them immensely as they obeyed (Deut. 12:19-21). > > > > 4. those in debt: Again this can only refer to certain poor laws, where > > God's law allowed for poor brethren to receive no-interest loans for up to > > six years. In the seventh year any unpaid balance of the loan was > cancelled. > > This was a measure designed to allow the poor brethren to borrow money to > > get back on their feet. Nevertheless, God gave the civil State no > authority > > to regulate, monitor, or enforce these loans, nor to punish those who > > refused to lend. This law did not apply to foreign nationals living among > > the Israelites. Of them a lender could charge interest and continue to > > receive it indefinitely until payoff. See Deuteronomy 15:1-11. > > > > 5. those countrymen who were slaves: Jews who through debt, theft, or need > > were sold into slavery would face a six-year term. At the end of this > term, > > they could decide whether to remain with their master, or return free into > > the marketplace. If they decided to return free, the master was obligated > by > > law to give his former slave clothing and enough money to get going (Deut. > > 15:12-15). This income was indeed forfeited by the master, although the > > slave would have more than earned it through seven years of unwaged labor. > > Had he been a productive worker, the master would have profited greatly. > The > > master would still be well ahead after giving him his freedom bonus. Had > the > > slave been an "unprofitable servant" (Matt. 25:30), however, causing his > > master loss, then the master would surely be glad to see him go, and would > > surely pay to send him along and avoid any future losses. The aim of Old > > Testament slavery, of course, was to avoid such a situation. It aimed at > > reform and restoration of the unsuccessful individual. By spending six > years > > working under a wise, successful, and productive master, a slave should > > learn the skills, mentality, and wisdom to succeed on his own once free. > In > > this case, the six years of servitude and the payment upon release > profited > > everyone involved. > > > > All of this said, God's Word adds nothing to this about the role of the > > civil State, nor of civil punishments for those who refused to obey the > > ideal. > > > > 5. the farmers were not allowed to pick their produce up from the ground > in > > order to give to the poor: By law, owners of property were to not harvest > > the corners of their field, nor pick up sheaves that fell to the ground > > during harvest. These were left for the poor of the land to come along and > > "glean." The gleaning laws gave the poor an outlet, for a very limited > time > > of the year, for a very limited amount, to get food for themselves. They > > would have to do the hard work of finding and harvesting the slim pickings > > for themselves, and they would have to do so in competition with all other > > gleaners. As part of the charity involved here, this was good practice for > > becoming productive in a competitive market place. > > > > Note again: the State did not enforce gleaning. The State had no mandate > > from God to punish those who refused to leave their corners unharvested. > The > > State did not collect the gleanings and the hand them out to the poor: the > > poor had to go pick them up themselves. > > > > So, in none of these alleged measures of socialism, do we find anything > that > > genuinely earns the name "Socialism." In no instance did the State have > the > > power to redistribute wealth. In each instance, the "socialism" depended > > entirely upon individuals obeying God's mandate for charity towards the > > Levite, the poor, and the disadvantaged. > > > > God kept the State out of the charity business. There's a good reason for > > this. If the power of the sword ever mixed with the power to distribute > > bread, there would be no end to political corruption: the State would use > > its powers of distribution to control the people; worse, people who grew > > dependent upon the State's bread would also then be dependent upon the > > State's sword. Acquiring provisions would no longer be an issue of > personal > > responsibility, but of institutionalized force. It would teach the > dependent > > of all shapes and sizes that deriving food at gunpoint is legitimate. > Thus, > > State socialism would be nothing short of legalized armed robbery. > > > > When Jesus fed the 5,000, the people were amazed. But Jesus realized they > > were not following Him because of the miracle, but because of the free > > bread: > > > > Jesus answered them and said, "Truly, truly, I say to you, you seek Me, > not > > because you saw signs, but because you ate of the loaves, and were filled. > > Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to > > eternal life, which the Son of Man shall give to you, for on Him the > Father, > > even God, has set His seal" (John 6:26-27). > > > > When Jesus knew that the people who try to make Him king because of His > > generous welfare, He fled: > > > > When therefore the people saw the sign which He had performed, they said, > > "This is of a truth the Prophet who is to come into the world." Jesus > > therefore perceiving that they were intending to come and take Him by > force, > > to make Him king, withdrew again to the mountain by Himself alone. > > > > Jesus was wiser than to mix civil power with welfare. This reflects the > > wisdom of Old Testament law. Our Chaplains need to understand this. So do > > their acquaintances, and every other Christian out there. > > In Christ Steven Post Reply
View Profile History	obama is goin against christian morals.. Posted : 13 Oct, 2009 07:22 AM About socialist,I have friends in eastern europe.:excited: I have traveled there.To the Ukraine in 2003.A friend took me to her Grandmothers home.The grandmother was a member of the communist party when it existed.What is our goal?To bring jesus to those who are not saved.katya told me her Grandmother was the directer of economy.All over the home was crossess of the Russian Orthodox chuch.I was told by Katya that her Grandmother started to attend church late in her life.The crucifix was hand carved and put on the doors.They are socialist!!! What about Putin? His father was the cook for Lennin and Yosef Stalin.My spelling is more along the line of russian here. Putin's father did not believe in god.But his mother did..... Vladimer Putin was the son of their old age.The mother took him to church during the time when christians were killed for going.Because of a mothers faith the fathers friends did nothing.Putin was not serious with god until the late 1980's. Somethings that were not good happened to him.This Socialist after communism fell as leader of Russia started to rebuild the churches with goverenent funds.:glow: God used a godly mother to enfluence her son. These Socialist countries have become more open to the faith.:yay: The Ukraine also is rebuilding their churches,this started in the 1990's.So,My socialist friends showed me all the new churches and I went inside them.I saw all the paintings of the bible stories and so much more.How can we say that socialist are evil?those that are christians there say the same about our system.Oh,by the way missionaries can go right into the schools and pray with the children.The socialist like that now.:prayingf: A missionary can not get involved openly in the politics of another nation lest they be removed.:MrT::prayingm: Those of you who think that this is crazy remember in Europe they look at the problem different.The countries who once had a czar were under an iron hand.They like a strong leader.In no way am I defending socialism.I saw and report what I saw.They now have more religous freedom than we do.The parties also help get the catholic church back in and the Luthern.remember a missiomary does have to keep their opions to themselves in another country.They tell about jesus not politics.Dennis:angel: Post Reply
explor_r View Profile History	obama is goin against christian morals.. Posted : 13 Oct, 2009 10:37 AM Steven, I have read some of your recent posts which are extreemly difficult to read due to their length & fluff. I think actually I know that any charity as you call them in this country is not a charity at all but any person recieving anything much very diffictult work (like those gleanning) to recieve the extreemly small amount of anything recieved. You act like someone just picks up a phone & says "I'm in need gimme" no it's extreemly diffficult to recieve anything & only those who qualify, even then it's almost impssible to get help for anything. No one recieves something for nothing as you make it sound. And to get back to the original statement: Why would we have to choose between our own well being to live or die & the life of an unborn child? Why can we not be healthy ourselves & live without the threat of sickness & death due to no healthcare. Why are you saying there needs to be a choice between the 2? I pray nothing ever happens to you & people have such a hard heart toward you in hard times like these. I'm sure that your words are stinging so many out there who have worked hard & recently lost their jobs & income & healthcare & now are out looking for another knowing how scarce it is. So many have had their world come crashing down around them & i'm glad their fate is not left in your hands for them to suffer & die from lack of compasion upon people. Thank God for the holy spirit to susstain all you in these difficult times of need. Please keep the faith & for all that Jesus shall supply all your needs. Post Reply
View Profile History	obama is goin against christian morals.. Posted : 13 Oct, 2009 02:00 PM dear man ,, if youll fight so hard for a innocent child to be born and not have its life harmed , as i do.. then why would you also turn around and fight so hard against the innocent child that is born and later becomes really sick and and is not taken to the doctors because the family cant afford it because they dont have insurance. or if they are taken they may be refused because of lack of insurance. or they may be taken in and not recieve the very best of care..or even if a doctor does see em then they cant go buy the medicines that could save them and are allowed to die because of any of the reasons above.. why fight so hard for them before theyre born and then just go root little pig or die after theyre born? i dont go for the government providing everyone with health insurance but i sure do go for them helping those in need. from young to old. ole cattle Post Reply
View Profile History	obama is goin against christian morals.. Posted : 13 Oct, 2009 03:12 PM My friend from the Ukraine who I visited.Her mother is a eye doctor.The state by taxes makes sure everybody gets treatment. They may have some good ideas in socialism.We can learn by that.We do we have to pay $1,000's that we may not have to get help.I do not understand your attack Steve.Cattleman has a point. Do we just let those born die if the family has no job.They may need help.Is your attack on me because I have seizures?Do you think I am a cripple? Weather you know it or not I did get some emails of sympthy.Thank you for those nasty words.Dennis Post Reply
explor_r View Profile History	obama is goin against christian morals.. Posted : 13 Oct, 2009 03:14 PM Amen Cattle. I was thinking the exact same thing after I already sent the post I sent. There is only a difference in age is all. Post Reply
explor_r View Profile History	obama is goin against christian morals.. Posted : 13 Oct, 2009 03:19 PM Dennis, I don't care if you have 1 eye, 1/2 a heart, no arms or legs & a crippling disease because Jesus loves you just the same. May we praise God for you Dennis!:applause: Post Reply
Happy2222 View Profile History	obama is goin against christian morals.. Posted : 13 Oct, 2009 03:32 PM The hardest thing for a Christian is to expand their outreach to all the evil in the world. There are over 197 different commandments in just the four Gospels. When we focus only on abortion or homosexual behavior as the greater sin, we miss drug use and alcohol which has destroyed a lot more homes. Then there is rape and child abuse and stealing and etc. Does anyone think McCain would have been better at addressing the evils of alcohol or divorce. Obama is who God has put in power and we are to pray for him, not try to bash everything he is trying to make work. It might take a Moslem takeover to rid our society of abortion and homosexuals. It took 22 years to get Medicare passed by the Democrats. I would be in serious trouble today, with the bills my wife was charged. Shalom Dan Post Reply
View Profile History	obama is goin against christian morals.. Posted : 13 Oct, 2009 03:59 PM He who lives by the law dies by the law.Jesus said that. Happy is right we have many issues.We need to pray for the prez not condem him.I gave you all his address before so write it down and mail him a letter.Upbeat letters get a positive response. Otherwise write it in love.:prayingf: Post Reply

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