Author	Thread: Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
really_54 View Profile History	Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ? Posted : 2 Feb, 2012 11:28 PM Thanks to a question about divorce and remarriage posted on another thread, I felt the need to address those on this site who may be suffering from the weight of guilt and condemnation heaped on them because of their reasons for divorce. I wrote the following article, "The Stone Thrower", based on actual instances that happened on this site. If you are one of those who have been ostracized by others for having an "Unbiblical Divorce," please take the time to read. May it minister to your heart. The Stone Thrower I want to touch on a subject today that has long been regarded in Christendom as taboo . . . and that is . . . DIVORCE. Mention that word around some Christians and their hackles suddenly go up on the back of their neck. They pull out their proverbial stones ready to put to death anyone who they think has been un-biblically divorced. And to my shame, I was one of them�a stone thrower. We all know the story of the woman caught in adultery in John 8:3-11. The scribes and Pharisees (the religious self-righteous) had arrested this woman and dragged her before Jesus. One has to wonder how these Pharisees caught such a woman "in the very act" of adultery. How convenient for them. It's amazing the depths of depravity the self-righteous will sink to in order to defend their religious arguments. Did they have the paparazzi spy on her to get some juicy pictures for the whole world to see? At any rate, they dragged this poor woman in front of Jesus and proudly proclaimed, "Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?" (John 8:5) Zowie!! These men can quote the Word of God . . . at least the parts that suit their fancy. I like our Lord's reaction. "But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear" (John 8:6b). Don't you just love it when someone ignores you . . . especially when you're trying to win an argument? But the self-righteous rarely lie down without a fight, and those religious Pharisees were determined to prove that they had the "truth." So they continued pestering Jesus, knowing that the Law of Moses was on their side. It's not a good idea to pester Jesus, especially when it comes to "pointing a finger" at someone. "So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, 'He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.' And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. Then those who heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning from the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst" (John 8:7-9). This introductory story of the woman caught in adultery has a purpose: I wanted you to have a glimpse of the mentality of a "stone thrower." They are usually self-righteous, ready to condemn, and can quote the Word of God. Ouch . . . I just described me. I had a clear cut answer for the reasons one might give to justify divorce which I thought was quite Biblical. And in my mind, there was only one reason . . . "But I say to you, that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except for sexual immorality, causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery" (Matthew 5:32). There you have it�plain and simple. Who could argue with such a statement? It is the Word of God! I thought I had the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth . . . yet the truth is . . . I was ignorant of the ways of God. "For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment" (James 2:13). And it was in my ignorance to God's ways that I threw stones at the divorced ladies on a Christian dating site some time ago. As a widower, I was on this site looking for a prospective wife. I was so appalled at the amount of women who were divorced on this site whose reasons for separating from their husbands did not match my view of scripture. In order to protect myself from these "contaminated souls," I purposely wrote something in my profile for those that I would consider as wife material: "You may be single, widowed, or divorced (must be for Biblical reasons only)." When I would communicate with these divorced ladies, I would immediately ask them to provide details on the reason for their divorce. If they could not give me an answer of infidelity as the reason for their divorce, then I considered them unmarriageable. Yet God has a way of grabbing His child's attention when that child is in error. One of the ladies on this dating site told me her story of divorce after I demanded it. Her husband was deep in bondage to pornography and had no interest whatsoever in repentance. The man had not physically hopped into bed with another woman, and so in my self-righteousness, I condemned the poor wife for wanting to opt out on the marriage. And the "stones" that I threw created fresh wounds in her heart while she recounted those painful memories of her husband's infidelity as he lusted after porn. According to Jesus' own words, her husband WAS GUILTY of adultery: "But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart" (Matthew 5:28). I ignored that scripture and concentrated only on Matthew 5:32. She lashed out at me, saying that she was glad Jesus did not condemn her even if I did. I have to admit, I was shaken by her story which moved me to tears. Then there was another lady whom I demanded to give an account for her divorce. I threw "stones" at her as well when she could not give me a reason of infidelity for her separation. In bitter anger, she struck back at me, stating how her husband had broken her nose and physically abused her. I ignored the scripture which reads, "But God has called us to peace" (1 Corinthians 7:15b) and concentrated again on Matthew 5:32. However, her story bothered me very much just like the other woman's. I began to seek God earnestly. These were only two of the many ladies who shared with me their heartbreaking stories of divorce. There were so many reasons given for divorce and none of them fell under sexual immorality (fornication) as I saw it. I sincerely asked the Lord to open my eyes. Was there any scriptural evidence to support these women's choices to opt out of a marriage other than infidelity? Yes, there was. God led me to Matthew 19:3-12. The Pharisees were looking for a reason to trap Jesus in His words. Their previous scheme had not worked with the woman caught in adultery. However, if they could just get Jesus to say something contradictory to the Law of Moses, then they could brand Him as a heretic. So they asked Jesus this question, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?" (Matthew 19:3b) Jesus' answer was, and still is, God's original intention for marriage: "Have you not read . . . the two shall become one flesh? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate" (Matthew 19:5b-6). The Pharisees did not like His answer. For Jesus had taken them right back to Genesis before there ever was a Moses or a Law of Moses so that they could hear what GOD SAYS about marriage. Yet the stiff-necked Pharisees persisted with another question: "Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?" (Matthew 19:7) Jesus responds, "Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so" (Matthew 19:8). The self-righteous Pharisees were using the Law of Moses as an excuse to bail out on marriages for any flippant reason. And because of this, the Lord had some very strong words for them. "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery" (Matthew 19:9). I can just hear the stone throwers shouting, "See, I told you . . . it's right there in the word . . . 'sexual immorality!'" Wait a minute. Like Paul Harvey, let's hear "the rest of the story" before jumping to any conclusions. After verse 9 comes verse 10. Even Jesus' disciples, which would include us, were amazed at the words of Jesus. "His disciples said to Him, 'If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry'" (Matthew 19:10). Yeah, I can see their point. If sexual immorality (fornication) is the only reason for divorce, then perhaps we are better off not getting married. But look at Jesus' response to his own disciples in verse 11. It stands to reason that if the disciples' statement was true, then Jesus would have said something to affirm it as such. He does not! "But He said to them, 'All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given'" (Matthew 19:11). What saying? The saying in verse 9 of course. NOT ALL can accept the saying that fornication is the ONLY reason for divorce. Now notice that Jesus goes on to explain what He meant with the following verse: "For there are eunuchs who were born thus from their mother's womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He who is able to accept it, let him accept it" (Matthew 19:12). What did Jesus mean by this? He tells us that three different men all became eunuchs for different reasons. One was born a eunuch, another was made a eunuch by men, and still another made himself that way for the kingdom of heaven. They all became eunuchs for different reasons, but who is to say which eunuch is "God approved"? God accepted them all. That's the point! Likewise, there are many reasons someone might seek a divorce: physical and verbal abuse from a spouse . . . being married to an unbeliever who makes life a literal hell . . . marital unfaithfulness . . . the stress of being married to an alcoholic for 23 years . . . or living with a pornographer who refuses to repent. Which one of these reasons for divorce is "God approved"? That's the point Jesus was making. Just as the eunuchs were acceptable to God regardless of how they became a eunuch, so also is a woman acceptable to God who seeks to be free from an abusive husband, even if infidelity is not involved. You and I cannot see in the heart of that abused person . . . but God can. For God has called them to peace. And the church has done more harm counselling emotionally and physically battered women to stay in a relationship citing Matthew 5:32 "except for sexual immorality" as the only just cause for divorce. Women have actually committed suicide and murder under the stress of remaining in an abusive situation because their legalistic church counseled them to do so. You may have heard of the case in the U.S. where a lady killed her husband (a pastor) who had been abusing her for years. God had called her to peace . . . but she never knew it, and one day she snapped. The evidence of abuse was so overwhelming that the courts found this woman not guilty of murder by reason of insanity. I certainly do not want to imply that people should take their marriage so lightly as to divorce for every whim and fancy. I would not condone that, and neither does the Word of God. Every marriage will have its share of problems which can be worked out with God's help by two committed individuals. Yet there are some women, especially those suffering physical and mental abuse, who have reached the tipping point of no return; and the only thing they can do to preserve their sanity is to get out of that marriage. And ultimately, it is to the Lord they answer to, not you or me. He has called them to peace. After God opened my eyes to the truth of scripture, I contacted those ladies on the dating site who I had thrown "stones" at and apologized profusely. I was truly grieved that I had been so self-righteous and blind, wounding those precious sisters for whom Christ died. Now back to the story that I began with. The "stone throwers" had already dropped their rocks and left the scene with a guilty conscience, leaving Jesus alone with the adulterous woman. "He said to her, 'Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?'" "She said, 'No one, Lord.'" "And Jesus said to her, 'Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more'" (John 8:10b-11). HALLELUJAH�MERCY TRIUMPHS OVER JUDGMENT!!! Blessings in Christ Jesus, Paul Janz (All Scripture quotations are taken from the Holy Bible, New King James Version.) "The Stone Thrower" Copyright � 2010 by Paul Janz. Post Reply
Singer4u View Profile History	Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ? Posted : 19 May, 2012 10:08 PM I want to add that you are bound by your mate if you both were believers! Thats unless fornication adultery was committed by your mate. Then you are free to remarry but not the one who did adultery. Its a capital crime in the scriptures! Hell awaits willful ongoing practicing adulterers Revelation 21 vs 8, Hebrews 13 vs 4, and 1 Corrinthians 6 vs 4-7 by principle of Hebrews 10 vs 26. You can be forgiven if you're an adulterer by 1 John 1 vs 7 and 9 so Reconcile with your mate ( 1 Corrintians 10 vs 7) if at all possible or stay single and sexually chaste and prove your repentance for your adultery by that fruit to Yahweh for you can't remarry as your mate lives! ( 1 Corrinthinans 7 vs 38-39 and Romans 7 vs. 2-3). Don't remarry unscripturally or Yahweh won't count your marriage! You can get mad at me all you want but I'm just a messenger and I provided the proof here and there's even more written in the bible too! The innocent party can remarry only and messiah covered this in Matthew 19 very plainly. Thats why we vow til death do us part and that vow is required. It is not a sin to separate its a sin to commit adultery and that can be done by remarrying when Yahweh doesnt count the divorce when the other has been faithful to him and the adulterer. The woman caught in adultery he said go and sin no more! That meant go return to your husband or stay single and chaste! Not just messiah had mercy on her but the law saved her too. Because scripturally the man who did adultery with her was to be brought before him too. That wasn't done so messiah wrote a new commandment that he that is without sin can cast the first stone. It doesnt mean we don't judge it it means we judge it scripturally. This because the adulterers were to be stoned and show me where that has been taken away in the scripture? However today we dont stone adulterers we give them a bill of divorcement for adultery if not repented of! This because this sin leads to a firey judgement in Hebrews 10 vs 26 unless repented of by living holy according to the word by staying single and chaste if the innocent party won't take them back! This sin curses the children down to the 3rd and 4th generation as well. When we repent we return to guarding the commandments not confessing to continue or do as we want rather than what messiah commanded because that would be false belief anyway and lead to destruction. I mean no condemnation to anyone! Yet the word of Yahweh will stand and it will justify the innocent and redemmed and condemn the willful sinner if not truly repented of before death. First Date Post Reply
really_54 View Profile History	Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ? Posted : 19 May, 2012 11:45 PM Dear Singer4U. Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts. I know you mean well, but what you shared is no different than the men accusing the woman caught in adultery. They quoted the scripture, and were ready to condemn the woman to death for her sin, but failed to see their own sins. "This because the adulterers were to be stoned and show me where that has been taken away in the scripture?" If you say adulterers should be stoned according to the scripture, and Jesus said if a man looks on a woman to lust after her, that he has committed adultery; and if you have been guilty at anytime of looking lustfully after a woman, then should you be stoned as well? Or would you rather receive God's mercy? "Mercy triumphs over judgment." :angel: Blessings, Paul Post Reply
Singer4u View Profile History	Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ? Posted : 29 May, 2012 09:24 PM Hebrews 10 vs. 26 and hebrews 6 vs 4-6. Revelation 21 vs 8, ! Corrinthians 6 vs 7-11, Hebrews 13 vs 4. These aren't all there are many more! Its possible to get out from under the blood covering of messiah by continuing to willfully sin with no repentance. To marry unscripturally makes one a constant adulterer! That's why! Post Reply
Singer4u View Profile History	Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ? Posted : 29 May, 2012 09:30 PM Mercy does triumph over judgement if properly and scripturally applied. However, not if unscripturally applied! Hebrews 10 vs 26 and Hebrews 6 vs 4-6 are warning passages as well as Matthew 19 where messiah himself warned the offending party(adulterer) that he would retain their sin if they married another when messiah doesn't count the divorce and in chapter 19 it is made very plain that he only will count the innocent party as free not the guilty=they can never marry or its adulterey! Someone is going to qualify for the adulterers who won't enter the kingdom in Revelation 21 vs 8! this book was written to the seven assemblies that believe and their angel! The stone thrower writng is in error filled with half truths by not rightly dividing the Torah = scriptures! Post Reply
Singer4u View Profile History	Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ? Posted : 29 May, 2012 09:51 PM Listen my brother. If that makes me a stone thrower then I am one! Did Messiah tell the woman caught in adultery to confess it and go marry whoever she wanted? No ! He keeps his own commandments! It is dangerous to tell people they can remarry when the scriptures says they can't! Thats agreeing with their sin and thereby sharing in it! ALSO IF ONE LUSTS IN THE HEART FOR ANOTHER THAT DOESN'T BREAK THE MARRIAGE BOND OF ONENESS as actual physical adultery would because that would be joining messiah to a harlot or whoremonger and thereby allowing the innocent party to be free to remarry. It takes the testimony of 2 or 3 witnesses to make a judgement binding as messiah instructed. You have not provided point by point refutation of scripture on Yahweh's rules or Torah. You in fact are quoting your opinion of a interpretation of the woman caught in adultery. Messianic rabbis taught me the truth and they study this every day. What if you are wrong? Yahushua said many more things concerning divorce and remarriage which you are not covering you are just making this one parable a basis of faith and I know you mean well but you are laying a stumbling block before people because what you are saying is no one has to keep his rules or word! Sin and then because of grace adulterers can go do as they please? Thats not at all what Yahushua said and in fact it promotes lawlessness. You might as well tell homosexuals that Yahweh will have to let them into his kingdom because they confessed their sin even though they stay in it and keep doing it. Psalm 66 vs 17 says the father won't even hear us cofessing when we hold onto sin! Brother quote the scriptures not your one sided opinions! At least research the verses I provided and comment accordingly. Give me verses and I will do the same Post Reply
Singer4u View Profile History	Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ? Posted : 29 May, 2012 10:06 PM Also brother I also want to point out this. Yahushua told her go and sin no more. What if she did it again ewven though he said that? She may have later we don't know! Also women lie! So do men! You said that women on this site gave you all the reasons and it wasn't sexual. They may be lying! I counsel many marriages and adulterers and adultresses and they usually lie and are found out! Very few come forward and admit it. It takes wisdom, the gifts of the spirit, and discernment to see this. I thank Yahweh that many times he told me in my spirit when counseling and confronting believers or so called believers in adultery and gave me specifics or other leaders with pinpoint accuracy and then the adulterers became afraid and admitted then only! I counsel even on this site and get emails from women wanting to know if they are free to marry. i will only say what is written! Not my opinions! Why wasn't the man brought forwards who committed adultery with the woman caught in adultery bro? Sounds like the pharisees were trying to set up messiah but he was wiser and caught them in their own craftiness. How could messiah even make a judgement if they didn't do as he commanded from the Torah? He is the living Torah! Post Reply
really_54 View Profile History	Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ? Posted : 29 May, 2012 11:38 PM Singer4u ..."but you are laying a stumbling block before people because what you are saying is no one has to keep his rules or word!" Did I really say that? Go back and read the article again. In your zealousness to hammer people over the head with the letter of the law, you have completely missed the point . . ."Mercy triumphs over judgment." When James and John (disciples of Jesus) wanted to call fire down from heaven to destroy the Samaritans because they would not receive Jesus, the Lord turned and rebuked his disciples, and said, "You do not know what manner of spirit you are of. For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives but to save them" (Luke 9:55-56). So I ask you, Mr. Singer, in all honesty, what spirit are you of? Blessings, Paul Post Reply
View Profile History	Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ? Posted : 30 May, 2012 12:51 PM Paul, I am going to take the time to refute what you have written here because this is a very important issue. Your solution will mislead many people and as such needs to be addressed. I will do this in bite sized pieces in order for the readers to be able to digest both sides of this debate. There are several logical and exegetical problems with your approach. Problem 1: The logical implication of your concept of the "stone thrower" would lead to anarchy and lawlessness. Imagine if every defense attorney simply ended their closing arguments to the jurors with "let he who is without sin cast the first stone". Since there are no "sinless jurors" every criminal would therefore have to be acquitted, the law thrown out, and the courts closed. That might seem extreme to you ... but after all.. as you have stated anyway - "mercy triumphs over judgement". I am guessing you would be a strong advocate for such a system based on your conclusions. Now to deal with this part of your argument as it related to the Biblical text. Jesus, far from excusing the woman's behavior, in fact, confirms the Law given to Moses when he says in effect, "Go ahead and stone her" but he adds this caveat - "let he who is without sin cast the first stone". For simplicity in explanation, Jewish law requires that anyone who executes punishment for a crime not be guilty of that same offense - thus mitigating against injustice and hypocrisy. So, in effect, Jesus was saying to these men - "Any of you who has not committed adultery, execute the punishment". Since they were all guilty they could not continue under Jewish law. Nor could Jesus follow through with her condemnation because the law requires two or three witnesses which were no longer present. Far from excusing her for her actions, he then tells her "go and sin no more" PART 1 More to follow.... ...... Post Reply
View Profile History	Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ? Posted : 30 May, 2012 02:39 PM PART 2 Problem 2: The logical implication of adding exceptions to suit your own view. Let's examine another key aspect to your conclusions. This the idea that there must be additional reasons for divorce other than those expressly stated in Scripture. After hearing testimonies from others on this site, you began to question the written Law of God. For sake of illustrating your error here, I will use a suitable analogy. God forbids abortion (murder). There are no exceptions. Following your reasoning, we should examine each instance of abortion and then judge accordingly. After all, some woman may have become pregnant as a result of a rape, or perhaps incest. Perhaps, the fetus is deformed or otherwise "unhealthy", etc. While these exceptions may stir our emotions and cause us to question our views - murder is still murder. There is no exception granted for abortion in those instances. This is no different than trying to rationalize divorce due to abuse, husband was not very nice, didn't love me like I deserved and so on and on. Where do the exception start and stop? Further, who decides that? When you substitute your own righteousness for the righteousness of God - You are the one who is the Pharisee (self righteous). This was the sin of Adam and Eve in the garden. They purposed in their heart to "be as Gods" and to "determine for themselves" what was good and evil. This was against the plain command of God. Rather than judging rightly according to the word of God and condemning those who divorce unbiblically, you have chosen instead to judge God and his law and to condemn Him as unrighteous in your eyes. Matt 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Who are you, oh man, to reply against the Law of God? More to follow....... Post Reply
View Profile History	Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ? Posted : 30 May, 2012 03:14 PM Part 3 Problem 3: Your faulty exegesis of Matthew 19 leads to a totally erroneous understanding of the passage. Jesus here teaches that there is no permission for divorce except for the cause of fornication. His disciples understanding the severity of this law and it's implication conclude then that it might be "good not to marry". Since we can not lawfully divorce we ought to take marriage VERY seriously. This is the thrust of the text. Now when Jesus heard the disciples response, he cautions them against adopting such a mentality ( that is - a mentality against marrying) since "alll men can not receive that idea". He goes on to explain that there are men (eunuchs for various reasons) that are able to abstain from marriage. Thus Eunuchs would be able to receive this idea but not others. With the proper understaning of this text, the entirety of your argument is thrown completely out the window. The idea that Jesus is here asserting that there are many reasons for divorce and He accepts them all would clearly after he has already said that there is only one reason would make him intellectually schizophrenic. Such an assumption would clearly be blasphemous to the core. I am sure that you don't wish to put forth such an assumption. Post Reply

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