Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 2 Feb, 2012 11:28 PM
Thanks to a question about divorce and remarriage posted on another thread, I felt the need to address those on this site who may be suffering from the weight of guilt and condemnation heaped on them because of their reasons for divorce.
I wrote the following article, "The Stone Thrower", based on actual instances that happened on this site. If you are one of those who have been ostracized by others for having an "Unbiblical Divorce," please take the time to read. May it minister to your heart.
The Stone Thrower
I want to touch on a subject today that has long been regarded in Christendom as taboo . . . and that is . . . DIVORCE. Mention that word around some Christians and their hackles suddenly go up on the back of their neck. They pull out their proverbial stones ready to put to death anyone who they think has been un-biblically divorced. And to my shame, I was one of them�a stone thrower.
We all know the story of the woman caught in adultery in John 8:3-11. The scribes and Pharisees (the religious self-righteous) had arrested this woman and dragged her before Jesus. One has to wonder how these Pharisees caught such a woman "in the very act" of adultery. How convenient for them. It's amazing the depths of depravity the self-righteous will sink to in order to defend their religious arguments. Did they have the paparazzi spy on her to get some juicy pictures for the whole world to see?
At any rate, they dragged this poor woman in front of Jesus and proudly proclaimed, "Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?" (John 8:5)
Zowie!! These men can quote the Word of God . . . at least the parts that suit their fancy.
I like our Lord's reaction. "But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear" (John 8:6b).
Don't you just love it when someone ignores you . . . especially when you're trying to win an argument? But the self-righteous rarely lie down without a fight, and those religious Pharisees were determined to prove that they had the "truth." So they continued pestering Jesus, knowing that the Law of Moses was on their side. It's not a good idea to pester Jesus, especially when it comes to "pointing a finger" at someone.
"So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, 'He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.' And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. Then those who heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning from the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst" (John 8:7-9).
This introductory story of the woman caught in adultery has a purpose: I wanted you to have a glimpse of the mentality of a "stone thrower." They are usually self-righteous, ready to condemn, and can quote the Word of God. Ouch . . . I just described me.
I had a clear cut answer for the reasons one might give to justify divorce which I thought was quite Biblical. And in my mind, there was only one reason . . . "But I say to you, that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except for sexual immorality, causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery" (Matthew 5:32). There you have it�plain and simple. Who could argue with such a statement? It is the Word of God! I thought I had the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth . . . yet the truth is . . . I was ignorant of the ways of God. "For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment" (James 2:13).
And it was in my ignorance to God's ways that I threw stones at the divorced ladies on a Christian dating site some time ago. As a widower, I was on this site looking for a prospective wife. I was so appalled at the amount of women who were divorced on this site whose reasons for separating from their husbands did not match my view of scripture. In order to protect myself from these "contaminated souls," I purposely wrote something in my profile for those that I would consider as wife material: "You may be single, widowed, or divorced (must be for Biblical reasons only)."
When I would communicate with these divorced ladies, I would immediately ask them to provide details on the reason for their divorce. If they could not give me an answer of infidelity as the reason for their divorce, then I considered them unmarriageable. Yet God has a way of grabbing His child's attention when that child is in error.
One of the ladies on this dating site told me her story of divorce after I demanded it. Her husband was deep in bondage to pornography and had no interest whatsoever in repentance. The man had not physically hopped into bed with another woman, and so in my self-righteousness, I condemned the poor wife for wanting to opt out on the marriage. And the "stones" that I threw created fresh wounds in her heart while she recounted those painful memories of her husband's infidelity as he lusted after porn. According to Jesus' own words, her husband WAS GUILTY of adultery: "But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart" (Matthew 5:28). I ignored that scripture and concentrated only on Matthew 5:32. She lashed out at me, saying that she was glad Jesus did not condemn her even if I did. I have to admit, I was shaken by her story which moved me to tears.
Then there was another lady whom I demanded to give an account for her divorce. I threw "stones" at her as well when she could not give me a reason of infidelity for her separation. In bitter anger, she struck back at me, stating how her husband had broken her nose and physically abused her. I ignored the scripture which reads, "But God has called us to peace" (1 Corinthians 7:15b) and concentrated again on Matthew 5:32. However, her story bothered me very much just like the other woman's.
I began to seek God earnestly. These were only two of the many ladies who shared with me their heartbreaking stories of divorce. There were so many reasons given for divorce and none of them fell under sexual immorality (fornication) as I saw it. I sincerely asked the Lord to open my eyes. Was there any scriptural evidence to support these women's choices to opt out of a marriage other than infidelity? Yes, there was.
God led me to Matthew 19:3-12. The Pharisees were looking for a reason to trap Jesus in His words. Their previous scheme had not worked with the woman caught in adultery. However, if they could just get Jesus to say something contradictory to the Law of Moses, then they could brand Him as a heretic. So they asked Jesus this question, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?" (Matthew 19:3b)
Jesus' answer was, and still is, God's original intention for marriage: "Have you not read . . . the two shall become one flesh? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate" (Matthew 19:5b-6).
The Pharisees did not like His answer. For Jesus had taken them right back to Genesis before there ever was a Moses or a Law of Moses so that they could hear what GOD SAYS about marriage. Yet the stiff-necked Pharisees persisted with another question: "Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?" (Matthew 19:7)
Jesus responds, "Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so" (Matthew 19:8).
The self-righteous Pharisees were using the Law of Moses as an excuse to bail out on marriages for any flippant reason. And because of this, the Lord had some very strong words for them. "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery" (Matthew 19:9).
I can just hear the stone throwers shouting, "See, I told you . . . it's right there in the word . . . 'sexual immorality!'"
Wait a minute. Like Paul Harvey, let's hear "the rest of the story" before jumping to any conclusions. After verse 9 comes verse 10. Even Jesus' disciples, which would include us, were amazed at the words of Jesus. "His disciples said to Him, 'If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry'" (Matthew 19:10). Yeah, I can see their point. If sexual immorality (fornication) is the only reason for divorce, then perhaps we are better off not getting married.
But look at Jesus' response to his own disciples in verse 11. It stands to reason that if the disciples' statement was true, then Jesus would have said something to affirm it as such. He does not!
"But He said to them, 'All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given'" (Matthew 19:11).
What saying? The saying in verse 9 of course. NOT ALL can accept the saying that fornication is the ONLY reason for divorce.
Now notice that Jesus goes on to explain what He meant with the following verse:
"For there are eunuchs who were born thus from their mother's womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He who is able to accept it, let him accept it" (Matthew 19:12).
What did Jesus mean by this? He tells us that three different men all became eunuchs for different reasons. One was born a eunuch, another was made a eunuch by men, and still another made himself that way for the kingdom of heaven. They all became eunuchs for different reasons, but who is to say which eunuch is "God approved"? God accepted them all. That's the point!
Likewise, there are many reasons someone might seek a divorce: physical and verbal abuse from a spouse . . . being married to an unbeliever who makes life a literal hell . . . marital unfaithfulness . . . the stress of being married to an alcoholic for 23 years . . . or living with a pornographer who refuses to repent. Which one of these reasons for divorce is "God approved"? That's the point Jesus was making. Just as the eunuchs were acceptable to God regardless of how they became a eunuch, so also is a woman acceptable to God who seeks to be free from an abusive husband, even if infidelity is not involved. You and I cannot see in the heart of that abused person . . . but God can. For God has called them to peace.
And the church has done more harm counselling emotionally and physically battered women to stay in a relationship citing Matthew 5:32 "except for sexual immorality" as the only just cause for divorce. Women have actually committed suicide and murder under the stress of remaining in an abusive situation because their legalistic church counseled them to do so.
You may have heard of the case in the U.S. where a lady killed her husband (a pastor) who had been abusing her for years. God had called her to peace . . . but she never knew it, and one day she snapped. The evidence of abuse was so overwhelming that the courts found this woman not guilty of murder by reason of insanity.
I certainly do not want to imply that people should take their marriage so lightly as to divorce for every whim and fancy. I would not condone that, and neither does the Word of God. Every marriage will have its share of problems which can be worked out with God's help by two committed individuals. Yet there are some women, especially those suffering physical and mental abuse, who have reached the tipping point of no return; and the only thing they can do to preserve their sanity is to get out of that marriage. And ultimately, it is to the Lord they answer to, not you or me. He has called them to peace.
After God opened my eyes to the truth of scripture, I contacted those ladies on the dating site who I had thrown "stones" at and apologized profusely. I was truly grieved that I had been so self-righteous and blind, wounding those precious sisters for whom Christ died.
Now back to the story that I began with. The "stone throwers" had already dropped their rocks and left the scene with a guilty conscience, leaving Jesus alone with the adulterous woman.
"He said to her, 'Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?'"
"She said, 'No one, Lord.'"
"And Jesus said to her, 'Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more'" (John 8:10b-11).
HALLELUJAH�MERCY TRIUMPHS OVER JUDGMENT!!!
Blessings in Christ Jesus,
Paul Janz
(All Scripture quotations are taken from the Holy Bible, New King James Version.)
"The Stone Thrower" Copyright � 2010 by Paul Janz.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 13 Jun, 2012 08:58 PM
Thanks teach ib for your patience in the sharing of the many scriptures and comments. One particular verse and comment caught my attention that I have chosen to post:
WOW! Jesus offering mercy to his killers when they did not ask for it. And at the same time, Jesus offering salvation to the thief on the cross when the thief could not do any act of repentance to prove to Jesus that he was sincere. That's mercy.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 14 Jun, 2012 07:16 AM
Teach ib, When I say that adultery is a sin with a covenant attached I mean a blood covenant. WHen the virginity is taken upon consumation a blood covenant was completed. Also a vow was made and this was included in the betrothal which meant to the Hebrews married all ready but not consumated.A covenant was made and its example was where two tore a leg bone from a torso of meat and the two walked between it. Honor thy father and mother has no blood covenant attached nor covenant. It is part of your covenant made with Yahushua but with no other. Marriage is a covenant made with yahushua and with another.
Research this teach ib, it goes so deep in context that I don't have the space to put it all here.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 14 Jun, 2012 07:21 AM
Exactly what I said on the prodigal son teach ib.
The Father meet him halfway because He saw him returning on the way home and knew He was repenting based on seeing him returning. Thats when he went out to meet him.
Notice: The son then confessed and just as I said saw it the way his Father did- Then the Father had the fatted calf prepared to rejoice. See the prodigal had to confess after his heart changed.
Repent is required 1st=A complete change of heart and mind seeing it the way the Father does.
Confession-It is made after repentance and based on repentance,
Your example said what I said not what you said teach ib.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 14 Jun, 2012 07:37 AM
Teach ib, I apreciate you understanding my divorce. Repentance is required by Yahweh the whole bible is about that and is required to be married to Yahushua.
I am very black and white on issues its part of my call. Thats why I'm in leadership and counsel. I even have a flock of new believers and unbelievers that come to my house that I minister to that my daughter and I have won to Yahushua or have them interested. I am very loving, merciful, and tender hearted. Thats why my ex-wife wanted to marry me in the 1st place. Also many others. I had many women intereseted in me for this very reason but finding one equally yoked . Many interested are unbelievers for I had sang in a successful rock band(singing christian based lyrics) and that platform offers that availability. Yet I will only marry one close to my level of understanding or its a waste of time and a step backwards in my opinion.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 14 Jun, 2012 08:04 AM
Teach ib, here are the verses where he put his word above himself meaning his name or equal to it or more?
Psalm 138 vs 2
I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name
All of Psalm 119(one of the longest in the bible be prepared to read)
Psalm 110 vs 4
The LORD has sworn and will not change His mind, "You are a priest forever According to the order of Melchizedek
Yes Yahushua is the Word= the living Word or The Living Torah
Hebrews 7 vs 21
but this one was made a priest with an oath by the one who said to him: �The Lord has sworn and will not change his mind, �You are a priest forever
Hebrews 6 vs 13
For when God made the promise to Abraham, since He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself,
Isaih 42 vs 21
It pleased Yahweh, for his righteousness'sake, to magnify the law, and make it honorable
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 14 Jun, 2012 10:40 AM
(SIGH) . . .Singer4u, you continually miss the point.
Singer 4u says, "A covenant was made and its example was where two tore a leg bone from a torso of meat and the two walked between it"
God's Word says, "But AVOID foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are UNPROFITABLE AND USELESS" (Titus 3:9).
Singer4u says, "Marriage is a covenant made with yahushua and with another." Indeed it is.
Singer4u, did you make a vow before God on your wedding day that you would love your wife "for better or for worse, in sickness and in health, forsaking all others, until death do you part"? Did you at any time while you were married to your wife look on another woman to lust after her? Then you also have committed adultery according to Jesus' Word. "But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart" (Matthew 5:28). You vowed before God that you would be faithful to her. You have broken that vow. So, if you really want to live by the letter, you are as guilty as your wife.
Singer4u says, "Paul, I never said that Yahweh wasn't merciful. However, he doesn't apply mercy unless there is genuine repentance"
God's Word says, "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were STILL sinners, Christ died for us" (Romans 5:8) This scripture says that God's mercy was shown to us while we were still unrepentant.
"And Jesus said to her, 'Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more'" (John 8:11b). Jesus forgave the woman caught in adultery before she ever repented.
"Then behold, they brought to Him a paralytic lying on a bed. When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, 'Son, be of good cheer; your sins are forgiven you'" (Matthew 9:2). Jesus offers mercy to this paralytic when there is no evidence of repentance.
Singer4u, you are beating a dead horse here. What further evidence do you need that God is merciful even to the unrepentant. Look at your own life. Where would you be today if God was not merciful? How many times have you committed the SAME sin . . .angry outbursts, lustful thoughts, etc., and asked God to forgive you and found mercy? Did you know that God does not reward us according to all that we deserve, or we would all be dead.
"The Lord is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in mercy."
"He will not always strive with us, nor will He keep His anger forever."
"He has not dealt with us according to our sins, nor punished us according to our iniquities."
"For as the heavens are high above the earth, so great is His mercy toward those who fear Him; as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us."
"As a father pities His children, so the Lord pities those who fear Him. For He knows our frame; He remembers that we are dust" (Psalm 103: 11-14).
"But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is kind to the unthankful and evil. Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful" (Luke 6: 35-36).
NO ONE on this forum, including teach ib and myself, is condoning sin or "sloppy Agape" (the idiom used for those who sin willfully and think God's grace covers it all). "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid" (Romans 6:1-2a KJV).
Jesus was constantly angry with the Pharisees for they lived by the letter of the law, but did not understand the nature of God, that He is merciful. That's why Jesus said to them, "But go and learn what this means: I desire mercy and not sacrifice" (Matthew 9:13a).
Singer4u, there's no need to be contentious over this matter� let God's Word speak for itself.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 14 Jun, 2012 11:56 AM
Paul,
I truly wonder over and over what your motives are here. I've prayed many nights about this whole thread and those who are engaged in the dialogue here. As you may have noticed, I keep my posts to a minimum. This happens for several reasons.
Over time, by reviewing your actions, I have formed my own opinion about you and your intentions here. However, maybe I am wrong.
So, I am now setting it down ( my opinion of you) to give you a chance to speak for yourself on this matter.
What are your intentions when you address Singer, myself and others who disagree with your theology?
---This is an attempt to build an honest understanding through extension of an olive branch. ----
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 14 Jun, 2012 04:38 PM
Bob-Paul doesn't have to have any intention to disagree with you. I disagree with some of what you have to say on other posts and there is NO intention in it whatsoever. I simply just disagree.
Paul Im enjoying your boards so keep them coming. :applause:
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 14 Jun, 2012 07:41 PM
Singer wrote: "Teach ib, When I say that adultery is a sin with a covenant attached I mean a blood covenant. WHen the virginity is taken upon consumation a blood covenant was completed. Also a vow was made and this was included in the betrothal which meant to the Hebrews married all ready but not consumated.A covenant was made and its example was where two tore a leg bone from a torso of meat and the two walked between it. Honor thy father and mother has no blood covenant attached nor covenant. It is part of your covenant made with Yahushua but with no other. Marriage is a covenant made with yahushua and with another."
Nowhere in the Bible is this ritual addressed. While your denomination may add 'blood covenants' it is not a Biblical requirement.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 14 Jun, 2012 07:52 PM
Singer, you said "The Father meet him halfway because He saw him returning on the way home and knew He was repenting based on seeing him returning. Thats when he went out to meet him. "
Luke15:20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.�
� �[*** note, the father was looking for his son, he saw him in the distance, there's nothing about halfway,
The father ran to him, ready to accept him BEFORE the son had time to say I'm sorry***]
Luke 15:21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.�
22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:�
� [***The son was ready to be just a servant, BUT the father restored him to full status***]
You are adding your interpretation to the story
Also, I know many people who confess and have no repentance...so your sequence is of repentance and then confession is not correct.
