Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 2 Feb, 2012 11:28 PM
Thanks to a question about divorce and remarriage posted on another thread, I felt the need to address those on this site who may be suffering from the weight of guilt and condemnation heaped on them because of their reasons for divorce.
I wrote the following article, "The Stone Thrower", based on actual instances that happened on this site. If you are one of those who have been ostracized by others for having an "Unbiblical Divorce," please take the time to read. May it minister to your heart.
The Stone Thrower
I want to touch on a subject today that has long been regarded in Christendom as taboo . . . and that is . . . DIVORCE. Mention that word around some Christians and their hackles suddenly go up on the back of their neck. They pull out their proverbial stones ready to put to death anyone who they think has been un-biblically divorced. And to my shame, I was one of them�a stone thrower.
We all know the story of the woman caught in adultery in John 8:3-11. The scribes and Pharisees (the religious self-righteous) had arrested this woman and dragged her before Jesus. One has to wonder how these Pharisees caught such a woman "in the very act" of adultery. How convenient for them. It's amazing the depths of depravity the self-righteous will sink to in order to defend their religious arguments. Did they have the paparazzi spy on her to get some juicy pictures for the whole world to see?
At any rate, they dragged this poor woman in front of Jesus and proudly proclaimed, "Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?" (John 8:5)
Zowie!! These men can quote the Word of God . . . at least the parts that suit their fancy.
I like our Lord's reaction. "But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear" (John 8:6b).
Don't you just love it when someone ignores you . . . especially when you're trying to win an argument? But the self-righteous rarely lie down without a fight, and those religious Pharisees were determined to prove that they had the "truth." So they continued pestering Jesus, knowing that the Law of Moses was on their side. It's not a good idea to pester Jesus, especially when it comes to "pointing a finger" at someone.
"So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, 'He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.' And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. Then those who heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning from the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst" (John 8:7-9).
This introductory story of the woman caught in adultery has a purpose: I wanted you to have a glimpse of the mentality of a "stone thrower." They are usually self-righteous, ready to condemn, and can quote the Word of God. Ouch . . . I just described me.
I had a clear cut answer for the reasons one might give to justify divorce which I thought was quite Biblical. And in my mind, there was only one reason . . . "But I say to you, that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except for sexual immorality, causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery" (Matthew 5:32). There you have it�plain and simple. Who could argue with such a statement? It is the Word of God! I thought I had the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth . . . yet the truth is . . . I was ignorant of the ways of God. "For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment" (James 2:13).
And it was in my ignorance to God's ways that I threw stones at the divorced ladies on a Christian dating site some time ago. As a widower, I was on this site looking for a prospective wife. I was so appalled at the amount of women who were divorced on this site whose reasons for separating from their husbands did not match my view of scripture. In order to protect myself from these "contaminated souls," I purposely wrote something in my profile for those that I would consider as wife material: "You may be single, widowed, or divorced (must be for Biblical reasons only)."
When I would communicate with these divorced ladies, I would immediately ask them to provide details on the reason for their divorce. If they could not give me an answer of infidelity as the reason for their divorce, then I considered them unmarriageable. Yet God has a way of grabbing His child's attention when that child is in error.
One of the ladies on this dating site told me her story of divorce after I demanded it. Her husband was deep in bondage to pornography and had no interest whatsoever in repentance. The man had not physically hopped into bed with another woman, and so in my self-righteousness, I condemned the poor wife for wanting to opt out on the marriage. And the "stones" that I threw created fresh wounds in her heart while she recounted those painful memories of her husband's infidelity as he lusted after porn. According to Jesus' own words, her husband WAS GUILTY of adultery: "But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart" (Matthew 5:28). I ignored that scripture and concentrated only on Matthew 5:32. She lashed out at me, saying that she was glad Jesus did not condemn her even if I did. I have to admit, I was shaken by her story which moved me to tears.
Then there was another lady whom I demanded to give an account for her divorce. I threw "stones" at her as well when she could not give me a reason of infidelity for her separation. In bitter anger, she struck back at me, stating how her husband had broken her nose and physically abused her. I ignored the scripture which reads, "But God has called us to peace" (1 Corinthians 7:15b) and concentrated again on Matthew 5:32. However, her story bothered me very much just like the other woman's.
I began to seek God earnestly. These were only two of the many ladies who shared with me their heartbreaking stories of divorce. There were so many reasons given for divorce and none of them fell under sexual immorality (fornication) as I saw it. I sincerely asked the Lord to open my eyes. Was there any scriptural evidence to support these women's choices to opt out of a marriage other than infidelity? Yes, there was.
God led me to Matthew 19:3-12. The Pharisees were looking for a reason to trap Jesus in His words. Their previous scheme had not worked with the woman caught in adultery. However, if they could just get Jesus to say something contradictory to the Law of Moses, then they could brand Him as a heretic. So they asked Jesus this question, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?" (Matthew 19:3b)
Jesus' answer was, and still is, God's original intention for marriage: "Have you not read . . . the two shall become one flesh? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate" (Matthew 19:5b-6).
The Pharisees did not like His answer. For Jesus had taken them right back to Genesis before there ever was a Moses or a Law of Moses so that they could hear what GOD SAYS about marriage. Yet the stiff-necked Pharisees persisted with another question: "Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?" (Matthew 19:7)
Jesus responds, "Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so" (Matthew 19:8).
The self-righteous Pharisees were using the Law of Moses as an excuse to bail out on marriages for any flippant reason. And because of this, the Lord had some very strong words for them. "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery" (Matthew 19:9).
I can just hear the stone throwers shouting, "See, I told you . . . it's right there in the word . . . 'sexual immorality!'"
Wait a minute. Like Paul Harvey, let's hear "the rest of the story" before jumping to any conclusions. After verse 9 comes verse 10. Even Jesus' disciples, which would include us, were amazed at the words of Jesus. "His disciples said to Him, 'If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry'" (Matthew 19:10). Yeah, I can see their point. If sexual immorality (fornication) is the only reason for divorce, then perhaps we are better off not getting married.
But look at Jesus' response to his own disciples in verse 11. It stands to reason that if the disciples' statement was true, then Jesus would have said something to affirm it as such. He does not!
"But He said to them, 'All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given'" (Matthew 19:11).
What saying? The saying in verse 9 of course. NOT ALL can accept the saying that fornication is the ONLY reason for divorce.
Now notice that Jesus goes on to explain what He meant with the following verse:
"For there are eunuchs who were born thus from their mother's womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He who is able to accept it, let him accept it" (Matthew 19:12).
What did Jesus mean by this? He tells us that three different men all became eunuchs for different reasons. One was born a eunuch, another was made a eunuch by men, and still another made himself that way for the kingdom of heaven. They all became eunuchs for different reasons, but who is to say which eunuch is "God approved"? God accepted them all. That's the point!
Likewise, there are many reasons someone might seek a divorce: physical and verbal abuse from a spouse . . . being married to an unbeliever who makes life a literal hell . . . marital unfaithfulness . . . the stress of being married to an alcoholic for 23 years . . . or living with a pornographer who refuses to repent. Which one of these reasons for divorce is "God approved"? That's the point Jesus was making. Just as the eunuchs were acceptable to God regardless of how they became a eunuch, so also is a woman acceptable to God who seeks to be free from an abusive husband, even if infidelity is not involved. You and I cannot see in the heart of that abused person . . . but God can. For God has called them to peace.
And the church has done more harm counselling emotionally and physically battered women to stay in a relationship citing Matthew 5:32 "except for sexual immorality" as the only just cause for divorce. Women have actually committed suicide and murder under the stress of remaining in an abusive situation because their legalistic church counseled them to do so.
You may have heard of the case in the U.S. where a lady killed her husband (a pastor) who had been abusing her for years. God had called her to peace . . . but she never knew it, and one day she snapped. The evidence of abuse was so overwhelming that the courts found this woman not guilty of murder by reason of insanity.
I certainly do not want to imply that people should take their marriage so lightly as to divorce for every whim and fancy. I would not condone that, and neither does the Word of God. Every marriage will have its share of problems which can be worked out with God's help by two committed individuals. Yet there are some women, especially those suffering physical and mental abuse, who have reached the tipping point of no return; and the only thing they can do to preserve their sanity is to get out of that marriage. And ultimately, it is to the Lord they answer to, not you or me. He has called them to peace.
After God opened my eyes to the truth of scripture, I contacted those ladies on the dating site who I had thrown "stones" at and apologized profusely. I was truly grieved that I had been so self-righteous and blind, wounding those precious sisters for whom Christ died.
Now back to the story that I began with. The "stone throwers" had already dropped their rocks and left the scene with a guilty conscience, leaving Jesus alone with the adulterous woman.
"He said to her, 'Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?'"
"She said, 'No one, Lord.'"
"And Jesus said to her, 'Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more'" (John 8:10b-11).
HALLELUJAH�MERCY TRIUMPHS OVER JUDGMENT!!!
Blessings in Christ Jesus,
Paul Janz
(All Scripture quotations are taken from the Holy Bible, New King James Version.)
"The Stone Thrower" Copyright � 2010 by Paul Janz.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 12 Jun, 2012 09:58 PM
Thank you again teach ib for your timely sharing of the Word of God with us. The Word of God speaks for itself, and I heartily endorse teach ib's advice that the readers of this thread would search out the scriptures on their own to find answers, and the Holy Spirit will guide you.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 12 Jun, 2012 10:40 PM
Singer4u, "Paul in answer to your question would I forgive my ex-wife? If she repented I would forgive her." . . .good. :angel:
So if you, being a man, are willing to show mercy to your estranged wife (after all that she has done), how much more would GOD, whose very nature is "merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abounding in goodness and truth", who gave His Son's blood for us wicked sinners, be willing to show mercy to His children?
"Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; let him return to the Lord, and He will have mercy on him; and to our God, for He will abundantly pardon" (Isaiah 55:7).
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 13 Jun, 2012 07:55 AM
Paul, I never said that Yahweh wasn't merciful. However, he doesn't apply mercy unless there is geuine repentance, Also one cannot bring their sin with them in their repentance.
Yahweh cannot lie for he has put his word above himself and he says that a person must forsake their way. He won't honor unscriptural marriages even if people confess their sin while the innocent mate lives. Otherwise, he would be lying about it. Impossible for him to do. The only reason I know that He won't is that He made the rule and gave us three witnesses.
A divorce decree is given to protect the innocent partner and its their right given by Yahweh to act upon when their is breaking of the one flesh covenant.
Take note that in the original hebrew which I have provided and the corresponding translation that when a wife is given a divorce decree for a sexual sin or scriptural reason it says that she "Goes" and becomes another man's wife. IT doesn't say she has permission! The word may was incorrectly translated and the New Versions of scriptures have made the correction.
Notice: Deuteronomy Chapter 24 ���������
� ����-������ ����� �������, ����������; ������� ���-��� �������-��� ����������, ����-����� ���� ������� ������--������� ���� ����� ��������� ������� ���������, ������������ ���������. 1 When a man taketh a wife, and marrieth her, then it cometh to pass, if she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some unseemly thing in her, that he writeth her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house,
� ���������, ���������; ���������, ��������� �������-�����. 2 and she departeth out of his house, and goeth and becometh another man's wife,
� �����������, ������� ����������, ������� ���� ����� ��������� ������� ���������, ������������ ���������; ��� ��� ������ ������� ����������, ������-�������� ��� ���������. 3 and the latter husband hateth her, and writeth her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, who took her to be his wife;
� ���-������ ��������� ���������� ������-���������� ������� ����������� �������� ��� ���������, ������� ������ �����������--����-�������� ����, ������� ������; ����� ��������, ���-�������, ������ ������ ���������, ����� ���� �������. {�} 4 her former husband, who sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the LORD; and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance. {S}
Also take note in Matthew 19 that Yahshua said that Moses allowed you to give a certificate of divorce. Then Yahushua said but I say unto you that only for the fornication/adultery of your mate may you divorce them and remarry and it not be adultery for you. He basically was saying Moses is dead and I am no longer allowing what Moses allowed= which was for any reason. Moses had delegated authority which ended upon his death.
Remember paul and teach ib, that the only sin that has a covenant attached to it is adultery. That makes it unlike fornication or other sins. That covenat is unbreakable til death and adultery was a capital crime and the innocent were freed when the guilty was stoned.
Bible scholars even agree that adultery wasn't a big problem in Israel when Yahushua came. It was rare and people knew its ramifications so they didn't do it. Everyone kept the Sabbath except the pharisees who made rules that they could break it.
See paul there is no provision that people can get out of a marriage when the two are part of believing Israel. If they do rebel and break it by adultery they free their mate because they get a spiritual death sentance. However if the adulterer repents Yahweh can bring them back to life but they have to keep thye covenant they broke regardless if their mate takes them back or not! We don't get away with this sin. Yahweh keeps up with it. He told the woman at the well how many husbands she had had and that the one she was with wasn't her husband. WOW! She was accountable to him from the time he told her.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 13 Jun, 2012 08:12 AM
Teach ib, I answered the wife question in my earlier post before this one.
I like what you posted except it says we are to forgive when they repent even in the verses that you povided.
It doesn't say we are to forgive where there is no repentance for Yahweh himself doesn't do that or He wouldn't have us confess our sins = 1 John 1 vs 7 and 9.
However, I agree we are to have a heart of forgiveness then we won't have the bitterness and the anger. Thereby being willing to forgive. The Father meet the prodigal son only when he was halfway home. Then He ran to meet him=Thats because the Father's love for us is unimaginable for we are the most valuable thing to him and Messiah! Thats why all the angels rejoice when a sinner repents.
Repentance is a complete change of heart and mind and seeing the sin as Yahweh does himself. It is then and only then a return to the Father Yahweh.
Also she is my ex-wife. I divorced her scripturally by giving her a divorce decree for unrepented adultery. I have no obligations to her anymore other than common love and honor if she should return to believing Israel=A return to life by a return to belief and obediance in Yahushua. The covenant is dead for me. I don't want no cheater and I warned her when we married as part of my vows that I would never cheat and that I would divorce her if she did and she told me the same thing. I kept my word! I did all to try and restore her back then and she refused for her heart was hard towards Yahweh then to me. When someone wants listen to Yahweh himself how or why will they listen to you a mere man??????????
Yahweh taught me many things through this divorce.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 13 Jun, 2012 08:19 AM
Also singer you didnt read on my posts on the pastor bit.
You dismissed that we are to listen to yahweh in the first place=the written word the more sure word of prophecy!
Only take advice from a pastor if they know the scriptures and only confirm living by them. Then you have a faithful wotness where yahweh speaks through 2 or 3. denominations believe many different things teach ib and you know this but you are being one sided and contradictory!
You didn't even agree we are to keep Yahweh's counsel first before any pastor.
You are wrong teach ib even if sincerely on this point.
I know gay pastors if there is such a thing! Come on.
There are gay churches here in town here in Nc and other places in the world. I don't want their advise on a matter at all!
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 13 Jun, 2012 08:36 AM
In reponse to you teach ib, you say I look to teachers more than the word? I give you scriptures and I know many of them by heart! You have no idea of my education or background.I wouldn't be a leader at my assembly unless I had maturity, knowledge of the word, and Holy Spirit lead wisdom or recognized whereever I visit=gifts make room for you! You have no idea my accomplishments given by Yahweh and why I am self employed for almost 20 years. You try and put yourself above me I see?
You in fact post off the internet your scriptures.
You see through your denomination's teachings and veiw all verses based on an idea of eternal security no matter what verse you read.
I on the other hand have no preconceived ideas and let the scriptures speak for themselves. Thats why I don't believe in eternal security unless obediance or a return to it by a backslider.
John 3 vs 16 is absolutely true. However I know better than to build a doctrine around one verse such as this. Its not all that Yahweh says and its not the full counsel of Yahweh= All the word is!!! Even the warning passages in the New Testament which on this forum you don't address doctrinally.
In fact you said that I was picking and choosing which verses I would believe or not. Thats hypocrisy on your part thats exactly whayt you do and people are seeing it on this forum and emailing me thanking me for making a stand on thw whole word.
Teach ib, look back at former posts. You have eternal security if you are keeping covenant with Yahweh and if you fall away you return to him on his terms=the word! Not on one verse such as Romans 9 vs 10 and 11=a mental acknowledgement that Yahweh exists is not what the word believe means in these verses!!!
It is in fact marriage vows to Messiah and that means a sexual term of oneness and clinging to, trusting in. obeying. A wife obeys her husband and thats exactly what He is to us of faithful believing Israel!!!
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 13 Jun, 2012 08:56 AM
Teach ib,
Here you contadict yourself again.
Here is the verse and the context is when another believer sins against you one of Israel! They all ready know Jesus!!!!
Matthew 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
An unbeliever defined by the scriptures and confirmed by the bible scholars is someone who won't repent!!!
Singer you wrote: "Yahushua said to count them as an unbeliever!"
Yes I did say this a heathen = unbeliever
here you teach ib say:
Yes, Jesus said to count them as an unbeliever, He did NOT say they were an unbeliever. This verse means if someone will not heed the admonish of the church, then they should be removed from fellowship as we are taught not to have fellowship with unbelievers. This does NOT mean we can't associate with sinners, quite the opposite, we need to seek out sinners to help them come to the saving knowledge of Jesus
I say thats part of the disciplinary process to disfellowship them yes. For we aren't to eat with any believer who is a fornicator because eating together is the highest form of fellowship.
1 Corrinthians 5 vs 11
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat
///// Yet you missed the point teach ib, when someone who is a believer (not an unbeliever) has went through the three witnesses and brought before the assembly and still won't repent they are to be counted as a unbeliever! I don't believe they will ever repent after it goes this far! Yet all things are possible with Yahweh!
The word says in II Corrinthains 13 vs 1
New American Standard Bible (�1995)
This is the third time I am coming to you. EVERY FACT IS TO BE CONFIRMED BY THE TESTIMONY OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES
Yet you teach ib sais they need to be won to Jesus? Here clearly everything was done thats possible to win them but it was refused!
You lean to your own understanding teach ib, look up the words in hebrew and greek and then you can get a proper definition and clarity of verses and they will be rightly didvided. I do this!!!!
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 13 Jun, 2012 09:08 AM
Teach ib, I will stand on that that I don't mind putting the guilt of their sin on willful adulterers who did it to their innocent believing mate because they will in fact reap what they sowed in this life and the world to come! Unless they repent.
Yes because we aren't to even eat or associate with these people. Willful adulterers are the living dead according to scriptures. Hebrews 10 vs 26 applies here and you said it yourself on an earlier post
Luke 17:1-10
King James Version (KJV)
17 Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!
2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.
When Yahushua says woah we better pay attention based on its hebrew and greek meaning. Notice it is wthrough who the offence or sin comes its that person Yahushua said would be better to be tied to a millstone and be cast into the depth of the sea.
Why? Because Yahushua is serious about believers not sinning especially willfully! The person with a millstone was a believer in the context of these verses and it doesn't sound like they will be in the kingdom based on this !!!
teach ib, once again you are short sighted and didnt read in context
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 13 Jun, 2012 10:55 AM
Singer4u says, "Paul, I never said that Yahweh wasn't merciful. However, he doesn't apply mercy unless there is genuine repentance"
"But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were STILL sinners, Christ died for us" (Romans 5:8) This scripture says that God's mercy was shown to us while we were still unrepentant.
"And Jesus said to her, 'Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more'" (John 8:11b). Jesus forgave the woman caught in adultery before she ever repented.
"Then behold, they brought to Him a paralytic lying on a bed. When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, 'Son, be of good cheer; your sins are forgiven you'" (Matthew 9:2). Jesus offers mercy to this paralytic when there is no evidence of repentance.
Singer4u, you are beating a dead horse here. What further evidence do you need that God is merciful even to the unrepentant. Look at your own life. Where would you be today if God was not merciful? How many times have you committed the SAME sin . . .angry outbursts, lustful thoughts, etc., and asked God to forgive you and found mercy? Did you know that God does not reward us according to all that we deserve, or we would all be dead.
"The Lord is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in mercy."
"He will not always strive with us, nor will He keep His anger forever."
"He has not dealt with us according to our sins, nor punished us according to our iniquities."
"For as the heavens are high above the earth, so great is His mercy toward those who fear Him; as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us."
"As a father pities His children, so the Lord pities those who fear Him. For He knows our frame; He remembers that we are dust" (Psalm 103: 11-14).
"But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is kind to the unthankful and evil. Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful" (Luke 6: 35-36).
NO ONE on this forum, including teach ib and myself, is condoning sin or "sloppy Agape" (the idiom used for those who sin willfully and think God's grace covers it all). "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid" (Romans 6:1-2a KJV).
Jesus was constantly angry with the Pharisees for they lived by the letter of the law, but did not understand the nature of God, that He is merciful. That's why Jesus said to them, "But go and learn what this means: I desire mercy and not sacrifice" (Matthew 9:13a).
Singer4u, there's no need to be contentious over this matter� let God's Word speak for itself.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 13 Jun, 2012 05:42 PM
Paul,
Thanks for posting the verses on forgiveness and mercy. �I am amazed at the topics this thread is covering...all relevant to your original post. �The different directions this post has taken prove how difficult the topic is to address and understand. �
Paul wrote: "Singer4u, you are beating a dead horse here. What further evidence do you need that God is merciful even to the unrepentant. Look at your own life. Where would you be today if God was not merciful? How many times have you committed the SAME sin . . .angry outbursts, lustful thoughts, etc., and asked God to forgive you and found mercy? Did you know that God does not reward us according to all that we deserve, or we would all be dead."
AMEN! I am thankful I serve a merciful God that doesn't give me what I deserve!!!!!!!
Paul wrote:
"NO ONE on this forum, including teach ib and myself, is condoning sin or "sloppy Agape" (the idiom used for those who sin willfully and think God's grace covers it all). "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid" (Romans 6:1-2a KJV)."
