Thread: drinking alcohol and buying alcohol for people
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drinking alcohol and buying alcohol for people
Posted : 23 Oct, 2010 02:51 PM
Someone mentioned in an earlier thread about some down-on-his-luck guy who was bumming for money; the guy admitted he was going to buy beer with any money given to him, so he (twosparrows, whom I asked if I could use his story) bought him two beers and went and talked with the guy and the girlfriend about Jesus.
I liked this - it shows that the bumdude wasn't being condemned over a beer, plus he was told the Good News.
I must say - I've always been under the impression that to drink alcohol, or buy others alcohol, was like saying it's ok to drink alcohol, and that was wasn't what a "good Christian" should do. Is this just a blown-out-of-proportion tradition/ideal? Up to personal conviction? I think there's some scripture on not drinking to get drunk - but what other reason is there for drinking alcohol? And what about Jesus making water to wine for the Cana wedding?
I would love to hear how you present the gospel to a person that dosn't know the Bible in an enviroment like that. Actually I think that would be a good new thread.
First of all, let me make it absolutely clear that I do not drink at all.
Now, I think that within American culture the phrase a drinking Christian is somewhat of an oxymoron due to the fact that many of your churches' opinions on alcohol were shaped by the prohibition which was enforced in the 20ies of the last century. We in Europe have never had issues with alcohol.
While I do understand practical reasons for forbidding alcohol to people who have just been cured from a chronic problem with it, I also believe that alcohol is something that God has created. Now, everything that God has created is GOOD. How it is used and in what quantities is a completely different matter.
Perhaps this is how it was with the Pharisees around - taking the things a bit too far if too many people started saying you shouldn't do things. I must admit, when I've been to a bar, both before and after I was a Christian, I have heard comments about how God, the Bible, Christians shouldn't be there. I've heard this from both Christians and unbelievers.
Before I accepted Christ, I frequented bars alot. My first Bible was actually from a bar in Orlando - I was there after work waiting for a friend, and the bartender had a Bible behind the bar, kinda carrying it around. I asked him what he was doing with it. He said he needed to get it out of the bar, and didn't want to throw it away, but no one would take it, so was going to trash it. I said I'd take it. I still have it now.
Another bar (before I was saved) a friend was saying he didn't go to church because there were no preachers around that actually preached from the Bible. (About a month later, a stranger came up to me and invited me to church saying his church actually preached from the Bible. I thought that was a little coincidental, so agreed. I accepted Christ shortly after I started church there).
After I accepted Christ, I was out-of-town on a business trip and a co-worker and I were at a bar. I thought she was a churchgoer, so started asking her questions about her church and Christianity. She said to not talk so loud, that we weren't supposed to talk about Jesus when we were drinking, it would look bad.
Then I've got most people at much church with the idea that if you drink, then unbelievers will kindof look at you like you're being a bad Christian.
I like all these Scripts yall gave of Jesus with the sinners and tax collectors and stuff. And he made wine at the wedding. I guess the key is he didn't DO any of it. He may have went to the proverbial bar, but he didn't drink. He ate with sinners but didn't sin. That's good stuff - just have to be careful to not to do the sin. I guess that's what my church leaders are trying to ring home - to not look like you're sinning at these places - cause people will assume you're drinking at that bar, and not bother grabbing your drink to taste it.
Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted.
"recorded" Miracles of Jesus was when He transformed water into wine. Did Jesus sin in doing so? I don't think so. There is nothing inherent in alcohol. Rather it is like anything else...Moderation.
You do not and I have to repeat that...you do not "feed" someone's Addiction -- for whatever reason. Would you give someone a rock of cocaine just to be able to preach to them?
We try as good Christians to follow The Will of God, but many have there own interpretation of Scripture and so then find others that agree with their interpretations. They then flock together and call themselves a "church" and...
Everything that is in it's natural form and used for it's natural purpose is good. That's how God designed stuff. Unfortunately, many things have been perverted and abused until it does not resemble what God had planned for it at all. I'm sure it wasn't so easy to get drunk on the kind of wine they had back then, which is probably why the bible says that "strong drink" and "mixing drinks" is not good. The wine they drank back then probably only had very low levels of alcohol in it, so it might be hard to take biblical standards and apply them to what we have now. Alcohol can be a very dangerous thing, and it is responsible for a lot of pain in a lot of people's lives. So are airplanes. Just don't be reckless with them. Altitude in all things.
#1 I was raised catholic, infant baptised as a catholic, went to cathecism classes since as far back as I can remember, went to a private catholic school (grammer school thru H.S.) ,received my first communion, and years later confirmation. As a altar boy for many years I had a first hand insider look at many things. So to be blunt; I have not only the right , buy the knowledge to comment on, as you say; " other christians"
(note: I am no longer a catholic; but that is another story for another time)
#2 You have dealt deceitfully in your post comparing cocaine with alcohol. For the Christian who is bound to obey the laws of the the land where they do not conflict with Gods will; to supply another with cocaine is legally and morally wrong. But to by another a beer is neither, unless of course the person is a alcoholic.
...sorry about your dandruff, but are you seriously saying that at the Catholic Mass you attended the only one allowed to receive the Sacraments was the Priest?
My point about Cocaine and Alcohol is that either one can become an Addiction. Would you give either to an addict? Someone panhandling in the streets for change to buy alcohol is most likely someone that has a drinking problem. Giving them alcohol is not the way to save them.
All the Masses I have attended (more than I can count) it was only the priest who drank the wine. The lay people only recieved the host (bread or eucharist depending on your postipn on transubstancation) As a altar boy, I was the one who handed the priest the wine to pour into the chalice. In the early 70's a charismatic movement swept through the catholic church and some of the charismatic masses allowed the lay people to drink grape juice or have the host, wafer or bread dipped in wine or grape juice.
I like that DontHitTheMark - the wine back then probably had lower levels. And it has brought alot of pain to alot of people; which is probably why I (and many others) look at alcohol like any drinking of it is a sin because so many people can't be responsible with it.
Rom 14:14 I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
Rom 14:20-21 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are pure, but it is evil for the man who eats with offense. It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak.
I think all of Romans 14 would be good here. We have a great responsibility as representatives of Christ, that we represent Him well, and truthfully. No, drinking of itself isn't a sin, but drunk is, and there's a VERY fine line there - our good ole LEAs say one drink is over the limit - because most all drinks today are pretty strong, as Mark pointed out. I'm still working this all out in my head, but hey - twosparrows - if God tells you to go to that local juke joint and preach the Word - you best get on it! :)
