At first glance I'm sure everyone answered in the negative. Though, given the kinds of programs that are called "christian" in this nation and the general beliefs of "christians" in this nation, most of us would admit that Satan is the most eminent evangelist in the free world.
The most common signs are:
prosperity teaching - the belief that you can bribe God to fill your wallet
emergent teaching - the belief that we can reconcile the lost to God without the Bible or Jesus
prophets - the mistaken belief that modern prophets are able to use divination (something that God hates)
"we're all God's children" - the misapplication of Genesis to infer that God's plan was for everyone who's ever lived to go to heaven and are part of his blessing, despite the fact that Ephesians call the unsaved "children of wrath"
pulpit evangelists - the mistaken belief that if we just get the lost in to hear our pastor, he'll set 'em straight
(add more to the list, since I know I haven't hit them all by any stretch)
I'm posting this from the other forum EDIT I made, just in case you won't see it:
EXEGESIS OF ROMANS 8:29:
"For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren." - Romans 8:29 (KJV)
You must first understand the order of salvation:
THE ORDER OF SALVATION �
1. ELECTION � God�s choice of people to be saved
The act of God before creation in which He chooses some people to be saved, not on account of any unforeseen merit in them, but only because of His Sovereign good pleasure.
2. THE EFFECTUAL CALL � Proclaiming the message of the Gospel
The Effectual Call is an act of God the Father speaking through the human proclamation of the gospel, in which He summons people to Himself in such a way that they respond in saving faith.
3. REGENERATION � Being Born Again.
Regeneration is a secret act of God in which Him imparts (inplants) new spiritual life to us.
4. CONVERSION � Faith and Repentance
Conversion is our willing response to the gospel call, in which we sincerely repent of sins and place our trust in Christ for Salvation.
5. JUSTIFICATION � Right legal standing.
Justification is an instantaneous legal act of God in which He: 1. Thinks of our sins as forgiven and Christ�s righteousness as belonging to us, and 2. Declares us to be righteous in His sight.
6. ADOPTION � Membership in God�s family.
Adoption is an act of God whereby He makes us members of his family.
7. SANCTIFICATION � Right conduct of life.
Sanctification is a progressive work of God and man that makes us more and more free from sin and like Christ in our actual lives.
8. PERSEVERANCE � Remaining a Christian.
Perseverance of the saints means that all those who are truly born again will be kept by God�s power and will persevere as Christians until the end of their lives, and that only those who persevere until the end have been truly born again.
9. DEATH � Going to be with the Lord.
Death is a temporary cessation of bodily life and a separation of the soul from the body. Once the believer has died, though his or her physical body remains here on the earth and is buried, at the moment of death the soul (or spirit) of the believer goes immediately into the presence of God with rejoicing.
10. GLORIFICATION � Receiving a resurrection body.
Glorification is the final step in the application of redemption. It will happen when Christ returns and raises from the dead the bodies of all believers for all time who have died, and reunites them with their souls, and changes the bodies of all believers at the same time perfect resurrection bodies like his own.
Now, on to Romans 8:29. Many people will claim that the word "foreknow" is just referring to God's foreknowledge of an event; but since we know that all men are limited in their free will, they will never seek God on their own.
The Greek word "proginosko", which is "foreknow", has 3 definitions cited in Strong's:
1. to have knowledge before hand
2. to foreknow
a. of those whom God elected to salvation
3. to predestinate
Now, due to the nature of the grammar of this sentence, it is an ACTIVE verb, or something that God does, and the Greek syntax is not passive. It is further proven by the fact that God's "foreknowing", is an intimate knowledge, not a general knowledge.
In this case, definition 2a. is the correct application in the context:
2a. to foreknow; of those whom God elected to salvation
We can also cross reference to such places as Romans 8:28:
"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose." - Romans 8:28 (KJV)
Notice in the verses I'm presenting, how everything is focused upon God's doing, and not man.
"Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified." - Romans 8:30 (KJV)
Well that's it for now. I hope that helped. God bless! :)
"But I will sacrifice unto thee with the voice of thanksgiving; I will pay that that I have vowed. Salvation is of the LORD." - Jonah 2:9 (KJV)
LOTC,again your right on the money,dont back down,dont ever give in,the arminian veiw tries to make excuses for the wrath of god,god needs no excuses,he makes no apologies for his justice,I dont know how anyone can not see what is plain in the bible.He plainly states he created "VESSELS OF MERCY" AND VESSELS OF WRATH.....whats so hard about that people.god is under no law,he is a law unto him self....we are clay pots.....he did this to show the elect the glory of his great love!!
Your comment parallels with a message I recently heard about the "left -handed church"...referring to the tradional church as a right hand one and God is wanting His left hand church to rise up and display His Glory....the Spiritual church.
The teaching was involving the use of the left hand in Jewish customs that shows favor and blessings toward the eldest son.. the widow Ruth when the left shoe had to be offered to establish kins-man redemption, etc. It was perhaps the most exciting messsage I have heard that totally bore witness of me as to the yearning for and of the Holy Spirit.
I realize that God has limits where sin and repent cycles are concerned, but I did not know where his limits were.
So I searched out his word (ESV -English Standard Version) and found Hebrews ch.10:26-31 [26] For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, [27] but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. [28] Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. [29] How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has spurned the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? [30] For we know him who said, �Vengeance is mine; I will repay.� And again, �The Lord will judge his people.� [31] It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. (Hebrews 10:26-31 ESV)
But to really understand it I searched out the break down of these verses in the ESV Study Bible, and are as follows.
Heb. 10:26�27 sinning deliberately. Willfully sinning and refusing to repent. after receiving. The author refers especially to people within the Christian community, who have thus heard the truth. The fact that they �go on sinning deliberately even after receiving knowledge of the truth� indicates that the people in view are not (and never were) genuine believers; that is, these are people who have never genuinely embraced the gospel in a way that has resulted in a life of faith, obedience, and the bearing of fruit. no longer remains a sacrifice for sins. This could refer to the inability of willful, unrepentant sinners to be restored (see 6:4�6), or more likely to the fact that there is no place for them to turn for forgiveness outside of Christ's sacrifice�which they have rejected. judgment. All people face judgment (see 9:27�28), and apart from Christ's sacrifice his adversaries receive eternal damnation. These verses, then, function as a means used by God to call genuine Christians to faith, obedience, and perseverance; and, if there is no evidence of fruit in one's life, to challenge such people to give fearful consideration as to whether they are in fact genuine believers.
Heb. 10:26�39 Warnings against Shrinking Back. The author warns of the impending judgment upon those who willfully reject the faith. Yet his purpose is to exhort the readers in their faith, a faith that he affirms based on their past perseverance.
Heb. 10:28�29 These verses argue from the lesser to the greater (cf. 2:1�4; 9:14). In the Mosaic law, the death penalty comes upon those who blaspheme God or who worship other deities (e.g., Lev. 24:13�16; Deut. 17:2�7), so in the superior new covenant the expectation of judgment would be even stronger. How much worse punishment � will be deserved by the one who � ? The description that follows is of a person who has deliberately, consciously, and persistently deserted �the living God� (cf. Heb. 3:12; 10:31; 12:22), renouncing Christ and the community of faith (6:4�8). It is a description of outright apostasy, involving a person who has done three specific things: (1) spurned the Son of God, (2) profaned the blood of the covenant, and (3) outraged the Spirit of grace. Such rejection of the knowledge of the truth (10:26) through willful disobedience is tantamount to trampling upon God's Son, reckoning his blood to be defiled, and insulting the Spirit who has offered such grace; the one who does this deserves eternal judgment (v. 27). Some have argued that the statement by which he was sanctified (Gk. hagiazō, �set apart,� �sanctify�) indicates that the person in view here was a true believer (see note on 3:14, however, indicating a fundamental difficulty with this view). Given the immediate context, it seems most likely that �he was sanctified� should be understood in the sense of someone who had been �set apart� or identified as an active participant in the Christian community of believers, but who has subsequently committed apostasy by renouncing his identification with other believers, by denying the �knowledge of the truth� that he had heard, and by repudiating the work and the person of Christ himself. Such a person's apostasy is thus evidence that his identification with the Christian community was only superficial and that he was not a genuine believer. Another view is that the author is confident that the grave warning in these verses will be the means by which those who are truly elect will be braced to persevere in faith and obedience, and so to be saved (see note on 6:4�8).
Heb. 10:30�31 The living God (cf. 3:12; 9:14; 12:22) is here portrayed through two citations from Deut. 32:35�36 as the heavenly judge, who will judge even his own people.
What it shows is if your in a sin and repent cycle and you loose the ability to TEARFULLY repent, then your on very dangerous ground to being separated from God. Or you may not really even be saved, like you think you are. "For it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God" Hebrews 10:31.
*****
Now because of the above, I will never get married again without this...
I realize that God has limits where sin and repent cycles are concerned, but I did not know where his limits were.
So I searched out his word (ESV -English Standard Version) and found Hebrews ch.10:26-31 [26] For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, [27] but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. [28] Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. [29] How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has spurned the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? [30] For we know him who said, �Vengeance is mine; I will repay.� And again, �The Lord will judge his people.� [31] It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. (Hebrews 10:26-31 ESV)
But to really understand it I searched out the break down of these verses in the ESV Study Bible, and are as follows.
Heb. 10:26�27 sinning deliberately. Willfully sinning and refusing to repent. after receiving. The author refers especially to people within the Christian community, who have thus heard the truth. The fact that they �go on sinning deliberately even after receiving knowledge of the truth� indicates that the people in view are not (and never were) genuine believers; that is, these are people who have never genuinely embraced the gospel in a way that has resulted in a life of faith, obedience, and the bearing of fruit. no longer remains a sacrifice for sins. This could refer to the inability of willful, unrepentant sinners to be restored (see 6:4�6), or more likely to the fact that there is no place for them to turn for forgiveness outside of Christ's sacrifice�which they have rejected. judgment. All people face judgment (see 9:27�28), and apart from Christ's sacrifice his adversaries receive eternal damnation. These verses, then, function as a means used by God to call genuine Christians to faith, obedience, and perseverance; and, if there is no evidence of fruit in one's life, to challenge such people to give fearful consideration as to whether they are in fact genuine believers.
Heb. 10:26�39 Warnings against Shrinking Back. The author warns of the impending judgment upon those who willfully reject the faith. Yet his purpose is to exhort the readers in their faith, a faith that he affirms based on their past perseverance.
Heb. 10:28�29 These verses argue from the lesser to the greater (cf. 2:1�4; 9:14). In the Mosaic law, the death penalty comes upon those who blaspheme God or who worship other deities (e.g., Lev. 24:13�16; Deut. 17:2�7), so in the superior new covenant the expectation of judgment would be even stronger. How much worse punishment � will be deserved by the one who � ? The description that follows is of a person who has deliberately, consciously, and persistently deserted �the living God� (cf. Heb. 3:12; 10:31; 12:22), renouncing Christ and the community of faith (6:4�8). It is a description of outright apostasy, involving a person who has done three specific things: (1) spurned the Son of God, (2) profaned the blood of the covenant, and (3) outraged the Spirit of grace. Such rejection of the knowledge of the truth (10:26) through willful disobedience is tantamount to trampling upon God's Son, reckoning his blood to be defiled, and insulting the Spirit who has offered such grace; the one who does this deserves eternal judgment (v. 27). Some have argued that the statement by which he was sanctified (Gk. hagiazō, �set apart,� �sanctify�) indicates that the person in view here was a true believer (see note on 3:14, however, indicating a fundamental difficulty with this view). Given the immediate context, it seems most likely that �he was sanctified� should be understood in the sense of someone who had been �set apart� or identified as an active participant in the Christian community of believers, but who has subsequently committed apostasy by renouncing his identification with other believers, by denying the �knowledge of the truth� that he had heard, and by repudiating the work and the person of Christ himself. Such a person's apostasy is thus evidence that his identification with the Christian community was only superficial and that he was not a genuine believer. Another view is that the author is confident that the grave warning in these verses will be the means by which those who are truly elect will be braced to persevere in faith and obedience, and so to be saved (see note on 6:4�8).
Heb. 10:30�31 The living God (cf. 3:12; 9:14; 12:22) is here portrayed through two citations from Deut. 32:35�36 as the heavenly judge, who will judge even his own people.
What it shows is if your in a sin and repent cycle and you loose the ability to TEARFULLY repent, then your on very dangerous ground to being separated from God. Or you may not really even be saved, like you think you are. "For it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God" Hebrews 10:31.
*****
Now because of the above, I will never get married again without this...
