I have been thinking of this for quite awhile because of how many people i know that either are gay/bisexual or support that lifestyle. i have seen/heard different arguments supporting/justifying this behaviour from both religious and non-religious people, and i find that many of these arguments are dangerous. i will mention the arguments that i can remember (p.s. i am not intending this as a hate post or anything like that, it is just stuff i have pondered).
-I cant help it i was born this way/I cant help it, God made me this way (didnt know how to fit this part in so ill put it here, i believe both that people are born that way, and that we can be "brainwashed"(for lack of a better word at the moment) into stuff, the whole nature vs. nurture thing)
i put these two together because they are the same argument, just one is generally used by athiests while the other is more of a religious argument, but then again ive heard both from athiests as well as religious people. i am pretty sure that we have all heard this argument to some degree or another. this argument is a fairly dangerous one because various people try to justify their behaviour by using this (examples include pedophiles, abusers, liars, theives, etc). one thing i have thought about is that if we start allowing the act of homosexuality because people where born that way, then why prevent stuff like beastiality or pedophilia because these people where born that way as well? i only as that because that argument can be made for all kinds of evil.
(and just as a heads up, i by no means support beastiality, necrophilia or pedophilia at all, i am just using them as examples)
-Jesus never said that homosexuality was wrong so it must be ok
there are variations of this argument, but they are all still wrong. Jesus also doesnt mention beastiality, necrophilia or pedophilia as being wrong either. so by using this argument to support the homosexual lifestyle, it can also be use to support the others. this argument is also presuming that Jesus really didnt condemn homosexuality. the writers of the gospels didnt record every little thing that Jesus ever said, if they did i am sure that each gospel by themselves would be almost as thick as the bible (i have no real idea, im just guessing on that one). so this could mean that either Jesus did say it and the gospel writers didnt bother writing it down because at the time homosexuality being wrong was a given, or Jesus really didnt say it for the same reason.
(as a side note here, as i did the quick search for the verses for the next one, i did find one in mark where Jesus does condemn homosexuality but it was only in 1 translation, it was mark 7:22 in the CPDV for anyone curious)
-the new testament doesnt say that homosexuality is wrong
this is straight up wrong because the new testament does mention it in a few places (1 timothy 1:10, 1 corinthians 6:9, jude 1:7, 2 corinthians 12:21, galatians 5:19, revelation 22:15, mark 7:22 (now granted some of these depend on translation) there are a few other references as well if i remember correctly, but didnt come up in the quick search i did)
anways, like i said i dont intend this as a hate post towards homosexuals, i am just posting this as a quick counter to some of the arguments for homosexuality behaviour that people make.
"And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery."
Here, Christ is talking about fornication. Christ expected men to have sex with their wives, so sex with your spouse does not mean fornication. When He says, "Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication", He is talking about having sex with someone you are not married to, while you are married. When you do that, is is adultery. I will break it down for you, as defined in Matthew 19:9.
Fornication-Sex with someone you are not married to.
Adultery-Fornication with someone other than your spouse.
Now, as DHTM pointed out, a man shall leave his father's house and take unto him a wife. Last time I checked, only women could be wives. Debating word definitions is meaningless. That is what lawyers do. In the words of an old minister I knew, "You cant lawyer your way out of Hell". The evil one is the master of deception and anyone who tries to decieve people into believing that homosexuality, fornication, and adultery are not sins, is doing the work of the evil one.
I see where Jesus is talking about fornication but he did not define it. The most common definition of it is sex between unmarried persons. If this is an accurate translation then Jesus is using as meaning adultery. Adultery is an act of fornication. Sexual relation between unmarried people seems to be the only definition the church wants to teach. It is inaccurate and incomplete. There is a lot more to fornication than just sex. You should do a real word study on it some time. It comes from a Latin word that is not a very accurate interpretation of the Greek word for it. Also the definition you are using is actually a very recent definition. It is not defined as any kind of sexual activity in Webster's earliest dictionaries. (Just an observation.) You might also search for it in the Old Testament to learn if there is a difference between adultery and fornication found there.
Again, trying to lawyer your way out of Hell is futile. Christ was a Jew. He defined things in the Jewish tradition. And they stoned people to death for sex outside of wedlock back then, even though Christ stopped a stoning. Yet, He told the woman to go and sin no more.
You must be a liberal.
Trying to pick apart the Word of God is a fools errand. Focusing on "definitions" or using one small passage to support your personal beliefs is how you get snake handling churches, tempting the Lord. This is how you get homosexual and homosexual supporters saying that God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because the people of the town didnt asked the Angels to come in, put their feet up, and offer them a cup of tea.
I never mentioned Sodom and Gomorrah and I never talked about Homosexuality. You are either too lazy or too proud to seriously do the research to find your own answers and you swallow the pill of the Christian religion rather than learn something for yourself. I choose to reject religion in favor of knowing the truth. No man has anything to offer me when I can find what I need by seeking it out and learning from Spirit.
As long as you only know the answers you have been taught and study what you have been told you will be as foolish as the men that are teaching you. It's kind of like George Orwell's "Animal Farm". With which I hope you are familiar.
Once I figured out that Christianity is as much a religion as any other religion and has no more or less to offer I chose to find out what the Bible really says and what it is really talking about.
As long as you think your religion is the only way to find Truth and that the Bible has all of the answers for what the universe has to teach us you will continue to live in your small world with very little real vision.
When you can answer me then I may start listening to you until then I will just consider you another person that has their religion's jargon and pat answers well memorized and you have nothing to really offer me in the sense of spiritual wealth, health or wisdom.
I am not defining my own Truth. I am taking seriously the true intent of the words used in the Bible. You can call it semantics if you like but if you never really know what is being said then you will never be able to know what the Bible is truly about. And please keep in mind that I do not believe the New Testament, other than the Gospels, is inspired "Scripture" since there is no evidence that it is and it does not claim to be as the Old Testament does. So I am not easily convinced that Paul's rules and regulations are anything more than commentary and doctrine rather than Christian Law. His agenda does not line up with that of Jesus nearly as well as some of the Gnostic writings do but the Catholics did have their agenda so they only chose writings that lined up with their politics rather than sharing all of the Christian works. Protestants are still servants of the Pope whether they know it or not or like it or not.
Finally, I think it's easy to learn the rules and follow them; to argue their legitimacy and measure other persons' spirituality or sanctification buy how well they fit the pattern you have in your mind. It is easier to know the true spiritual nature of a person when they are more focused on their own journey than the journeys of others. I believe that one of the tricks of Satan is to get people to judge others, point fingers, throw stones and crucify them without ever taking the time to think about why it is so important to them that they be critical, judgmental or why they always have to be right.
If you are so wise, as it seems you think yourself to be, why do you become defensive and strike out at someone you disagree with? It seems to me that if you were acting out of love you would want to teach someone what you know in a way that would make them want to listen to you. As for me, well, you lost me because now I don't believe you can think for yourself.
So, you just make it up as you go along. You find some little used definition in an ancient, and technically dead, language to fit your beliefs.Do you have a degree in ancient languages or did you just google it?
Spirituality? The Native American belief that rocks, trees, rivers, animals, etc had spirits can also be called spirituality. Mediums/psychics were also called Spiritualists. Keep your so-called spirituality. I will take my faith in God, His Son, and the knowledge that the Bible is the Holy Word of God over your spirituality any day.
Just for the record. I have attended church in most denominations. I read and study the Bible daily. God puts in my heart what to believe and what not to believe. We are warned to watch out for those who would turn the truth of God into a lie. The deceivers. Maybe you should reread the Bible and mark the passage that explains about perverting God's message and the punishment for so doing.
OMT-I do not judge others. However, a tree is known by its fruit. You may not understand the difference between understanding when someone's actions are sinful and judging them. Fortunately, the rest of us do.
I don't agree with homosexuality and am attracted to the opposite sex. But, it is important to be sensitive to other people and their experiences. I think it is important to love all people even if you don't agree with their lifestyles. Those who are homosexual experience so much rejection in church as well as some abuse. So it must be approached in a delicate way.
I agree, but the truth is at some point there is going to be conflict because the bible teaches that homosexual acts are not an option and most homosexuals do act on their urges and attractions. I don't have an answer for how this is to be approached, but I think that anyone who intends to continue with homosexual acts is going to find it very difficult in most churches. Of course, as sinners ourselves, we ought not to think of ourselves better but give thanks that our own weaknesses are more easily hidden, controlled or not given such infamy amongst society, for they certainly are not lesser in God's eyes than those of the homosexuals.
