This is in response to those of you who state that you categorically will not date/marry someone who has been divorced.
In about 100 years time (and forward!) we can discuss this face to face with love for one another, both of us with a much wiser understanding and I know that not everything is clear cut this side of the pearly gates (including a person's heart, fear and motivation)! None of us will be married then (even the ones happily married now!), but we shall ALL be His Bride! My question is concerning this stance while we are still here on earth (when we marry mere mortals)...
While I do not dismiss your right to ANY preference you wish, I note that often your stance is followed by a statement about 'a faith not tested cannot be trusted' and believing in 'the school of hard knocks'. May I put forth to you that SOME people who are divorced have lived this exactly! For some, divorce is for impatient and selfish reasons, true, but that is not a blanket truth about everyone who is divorced.
For instance, I married a man who was in training for the ministry. He quit within a month after we got married (I was 20) and over the next 8 years had 12 affairs and slept with two hookers. He was verbally and physically abusive and snubbed our daughter to the point of affecting her own spiritual view of our Heavenly Father. I have since then raised her on my own, teaching her to trust in God for everything including peace and happiness. I was a virgin when I got married and I have not slept with another man in all these years.
I don't believe that God has dismissed me because I divorced. I don't believe that He has said, "You can lie, steal, murder, gossip, be a drunk, sleep with someone outside of marriage, choose the world instead of Me and I will forgive you and give you a second chance,... but divorce and - though I will let you into heaven at the end of your natural life - you will be a living example all your days to everyone and I will despise you!"
He has blessed me in SO many ways since that painful and degrading period of my life... how could that even possibly be true? He LOVES me!! He has called me His Bride!! :yay:
I know not all stories of divorce are the same, but it is not the unforgivable sin. I'm just saying that God can redeem anyone. Please don't dismiss someone because of something they graduated from in the school of hard knocks! Glorify God together with them, as your Brother or Sister! He has taken that which was discarded and redeemed it for His kingdom!
I agree with "jeff1971" on this issue. The only grounds for a divorce that Jesus allowed for is in the case of "marital unfaithfulness". WHY??? Because marriage is a "commitment" by both the man and the woman to keep themselves for each other in that way. By the way, "marital unfaithfulness" doesn't just include not cheating...it also includes being there for your spouse's sexual needs/desires as well. I decided to mention that for 2 reasons...
(1) It's scriptural!
(2) Unfaithfulness in this area is largely responsible for my parents having divorced!
Yep...marital unfaithfulness includes "cheating" AND "not being there for your spouse sexually". By the way, I hope everyone who reads this understands that I'm NOT trying to suggest having to have sexual relations 7 days a week or 365 days of the year. Please don't twist my words folks! LOL :)
Joy us marriage losers have scared souls-( if they tell you they do not they lie) which produces a combination of deep seated feelings: anger, hate (self-hate) sorrow and in time bitterness-I try very hard to keep my ex-wife in a box in my mind, but she breaks out occasionally and runs amok in my mind. AND LIKE THE SONG LYRIC SAYS IT IS ALL COMING BACK TO ME NOW---and at those moments when the beast has been awakened and depending upon where you are in your recovery -you begin to react and oft times react POWERFULLY . There are some women I meet and I see my ex-wife the adulterer behaving like my ex-wife-- and I see red. And I want to hit and hit hard. To give the pain back--- Do you want to be around a man with that kind of baggage? Are you willing to clean up the emotional mess they make after they are finished acting out? This is why God hates divorce, it wounds so deeply and bears an ugly fetid infection for so many years after the event.
Not meeting the sexual needs of your partner is a way of controlling and punishing -- if you want to learn from a catholic woman who is a master at this cruel selfish game I will introduce you to my ex-wife.
I completely agree with what you said about "not meeting a spouse's sexual needs". You're exactly right! Personally, I see that kinda stuff as a "control issue"...in other words, such a person is a "control freak". Withholding sexual relations from a spouse (without their permission) is grounds for a divorce as far as I'm concerned. Honestly, I would never try to withhold sexual relations from my future wife. I could never justify doing something like that simply because it's a direct violation of the "commitment" that comes with marriage.
You know what's really neat...the pastor was talking about what it means to be "committed" this past sunday. He was referring more to being committed to the Lord, but still...a marriage commitment is very similar.
focus have you ever been married? If not it can get very tough and dirty and the bed room is a way to get even--it is very hard be the kind of husband the Lord expects us to be --very hard.
No, I haven't been married yet...and I'm being very cautious and careful in choosing a wife. My plan is to find one of the few young ladies of my generation who hasn't been warped and twisted in her mind (beyond repair) by the feminist movement. Yeah, I know that might be a difficult task, but I'm a whitetail deer hunter...so I know what patience is all about. When you've been known sit in a treestand elevated 20 feet off the ground from dawn until dusk without anything to eat all day other than a couple of poptarts, a granola bar, and a bottle of water, then you know you've got patience! But anyway, I've found one such young lady on this dating site who said she was against feminism...but unfortunately she told me she wasn't ready for a relationship yet. So the search continues...and I know I'm gonna find the kinda young lady I'm searching for because God didn't put me on this earth without anyone to be a wife to me. She's out there...and although I might not know who she is yet, God knows exactly who she is and how to get her to me...and He could have her here in less than a week if He wanted. I've got nothing to fear other than fear itself! :)
Just being honest, I'm actually considering finding someone from outside the United States to be a wife to me...because I can tell that many of the so called "Christian women" here in this country, sadly, are nowhere near as Christian as they think! Honestly, I'm not looking for a woman who's a "Christian"...I'm looking for a woman who's a "Believer"...because a "Believer" follows the teaching of the scriptures. The term "Christian" has become so watered down that it barely means anything at all here in the United States these days. Truth is, a person who claims to be "of the Lord" is only fooling themselves if the majority of their actions aren't obvious proof that they've been changed for the better in their heart/lifestyle. God desires that we be doers of the Word rather than simply hearers of the Word.
FOCUS listen to me. This is not a hunt for tail. You are a son of the living God waiting for your bride (if you are called to marriage) The Gift will come in Gods timing, NOT YOURS. UNDERSTAND? Surrender your desire to be married to Jesus, let the Holy Spirit be the Holy Spirit, He will bring your wife to your when it is the season for courtship.Not a minute sooner or a minute later. But, if you continue to pursue your mate in your own will and understanding you are going to bring pain and suffering to both of you.
Proverbs 31:
The Virtuous Wife
10 Who can find a virtuous wife? For her worth is far above rubies.
11 The heart of her husband safely trusts her; So he will have no lack of gain.
12 She does him good and not evil All the days of her life.
13 She seeks wool and flax, And willingly works with her hands.
14 She is like the merchant ships, She brings her food from afar.
15 She also rises while it is yet night, And provides food for her household, And a portion for her maidservants.
16 She considers a field and buys it; From her profits she plants a vineyard.
17 She girds herself with strength, And strengthens her arms.
18 She perceives that her merchandise is good, And her lamp does not go out by night.
19 She stretches out her hands to the distaff, And her hand holds the spindle.
20 She extends her hand to the poor, Yes, she reaches out her hands to the needy.
21 She is not afraid of snow for her household, For all her household is clothed with scarlet.
22 She makes tapestry for herself; Her clothing is fine linen and purple.
23 Her husband is known in the gates, When he sits among the elders of the land.
24 She makes linen garments and sells them, And supplies sashes for the merchants.
25 Strength and honor are her clothing; She shall rejoice in time to come.
26 She opens her mouth with wisdom, And on her tongue is the law of kindness.
27 She watches over the ways of her household, And does not eat the bread of idleness.
28 Her children rise up and call her blessed; Her husband also, and he praises her:
29 " Many daughters have done well, But you excel them all."
30 Charm is deceitful and beauty is passing, But a woman who fears the LORD, she shall be praised.
31 Give her of the fruit of her hands, And let her own works praise her in the gates.
To all the sisters and brothers, blessings to all in Christ Jesus. This something I compiled about different sins including adultery, which seems to be the topic associated with divorce by some...Also go into how we (the body in Christ) should handle sin and others that sin around us) and what would Jesus do in your particular situation & with people dealing with all sorts of shortcomings and sins. So if you have time, read on if not ,Just wanted to start off by mentioning the scripture "There is no condemnation for those those that are in Christ Jesus! Are you being obedient now and learning scripture and trying your best and have repented of any wrongdoing that you took part of in past? Then you are free, even of what others say or don't say.
Hopefully we are not throwing stones solely at the ones divorced, but really trying to help with any word or trying to build up those that have gone through it (no point in condemning when it is already done & probably person has already been in prayer & asking God to help them in this area) Recall how Jesus handled sinners,he would tell them " Go and Sin no more!" Not point fingers like those attempting to stone others, when they had their own faults apparently in that scenario in the bible. Hopefully people are offering sincere help for possible avoidance of divorce for some contemplating it. When Apostle Paul taught these things to the church, he was sincere not with fleshly wisdom but with the Grace of God to build up body and he did it with a heavy heart hoping people would get it for their own good & prosperity, not for condemnation purposes.Read Corinithians 2 Chapter 1 vs 12-15. Also Jesus was the solution as the saviour for all those that would follow and obey him. He would not focus on the sin & condemn, but rather offer forgiveness if there was true change of heart.Reference John 3:17
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
As none of us will ever be perfect, ever.....But that is not a license to sin either willingly. So it will matter how mature you are in your walk with God & accountability of what you know .
See when the church people were being taught by Godly men....I Cor. 3:1-3 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able; 3 for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you,are you not carnal and behaving like mere men? ***Now when they mention divisions would that be like Divorce? Separation? I believe so, since division equals to that.
And some areas in our lives, no matter how mature, we will still stumble & fall, but get right back up and start over. We are hoping not to go backwards and sin willfully with rebellion against God's will or commands, but there will be sin in our lives as a reminder we are just mortal. I do believe we can reach a higher level of obedience and holiness with consecration to God and desiring to be righteous to please our God. Seek him with all your hearts and you will find him and his truth through scripture & his spirit will guide you. See Psalm 119:11
Your word I have hidden in my heart,That I might not sin against You.
So knowing him and his words will save us all a lot of problems & consequences of sinful acts.
Did anybody notice if there a mention of mercy or compassion.love or offer to start a prayer thread for newly divorced or those thinking about divorce by some mentioning Matthew 19? Just an idea to be a help if you are called to pull out scripture and you may come across as condemning, you could actually offer support & prayer and be there for some struggling and that would be well received by mostly all that are hurting.
What about Matthew 5:27-30? I will paraphrase, If you just look at a woman/man and lust in your heart that is adultery according to this scripture. BTW (all have done at some point of their lifetime unless you are a liar and deceive yourself) and it also says to cut off your eye and hand if it causes you to sin.Imagine all the mamed that would be walking around today or blind. Now we can't take that part literal and be unmerciful and go around hacking peoples body parts off. Many teach the eye for eye religious judgements, many godless people in other godless countries & societies are often permitted to do this in the name of their false religion & doctrine due to their lack of understanding.They practice unfair judgements that cause more harm than good and express lack of compassion for those merely being human and haven't known right from wrong yet in many cases. How they execute judgement is faulty and not the way our God would have us to do things. He offers us to follow a better way by his example, love & forgiveness and teaching others by our e teaching them with love & compassion as he did whether we or others sin against each other. We are going to fail one another unfortunately, 70 x 7 scripture says if necessary we have to forgive that many times. We know better than that, we serve a God who is patient. merciful & loving towards us, but yes he has stipulations so we can be blessed and saved eventually by us walking in the spirit and not the flesh. Proverbs 8:36
But he who sins against me wrongs his own soul; All those who hate me love death.�
After all, if we love him we will obey his commandments as we know those who practive lawlessness & are not living righteous will not enter the kingdom of God Contrary to what Jesus would say inherit the Kingdeom of God The example that someone mentioned here about the woman who Jesus discerned had 5 husbands, did he condemn her or gave her the option to come to him and leave her sinful ways behind? He offered her hope and forgiveness first as well as the women about to be stoned. All the so called righteous apparently had their own little skeletons,yet proudly they stood there ready to kill her for her sin. They felt pure and perfect, yet he saw right through them and Hebrew 4:12 comes to mind with this scene. Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. He knew their thoughts that day or how they really were inside their hearts.
Now I am not justifying adultery or any other sin, but Jesus always forgives and doesn't condemn. People utltimately choose to harden their hearts and sin against his better judgements given by the 10 commandments given for our good to follow.The more we can follow these commandments the more life and blessings will come our way for being obedient. Yet at one time or another we have all failed in one or other areas, hopefully less and less as we mature in the teachings and spiritual walk. Yes hardening of heart or unforgiveness caused divorce decree to be allowed, but what about the person involved with the one that has the hard heart, the other spouse can just decide to use the free choice of leaving cheating spouse. I will later explain what cheating may conclude to be, not just adultery in my view. Lacking of fulfilling spousal duties in many areas, unequally yoked & how about not being a true christian when said the vows and not really knowing him at that particular moment in a persons life and not following Gods will? There is a number of other reasons and things that can cause divorce, so I would not put myself as a judge in the middle of that. Time of judgement will come for those that haven't changed from their wicked ways, none will escape, only those in Christ Jesus are covered by him, the perfect lamb and sacrifice for our sins!
You know I really believe most of the ladies brought up some good points, and some men also.(less men commented though) But I have to tell you trustandbelieve, none us need mans or womans approval for anything we do, hopefully we are good examples and don't make others stumble that watch us portray our christianity. In regards to legalistic comments or views expressed without true understanding, I wouldn't be worried or concerned. We are going to stand in front our just judge and maker one day for all the good and bad we have all done, and he is perfect and will judge justly without a question. These judgements thrown here or by others elsewhere are flawed. I am not discrediting the scripture, I believe in it wholeheartedly and do my best to follow the commandments. But like all others breathing in this planet, at one time or another we make mistakes and have ALL gone astray. Whether bad judgement,like marrying person not chosen by God and resulted in being unequally yoked or other mistakes in lifetime. Important thing in scripture is to repent and reconcile with your heavenly father and make a change, in other words stop sinning if we are to blame, if we are not to blame, then pray and forgive the other person as Jesus showed us. If it was other persons fault you have the option of staying in marriage if you love and can live peacefully and truly forgive them for their trespasses of the past, including infedilty or abuse or other circumstances, then it would be noble to still stay in marriage. Obviously scripture gives an option of escape from such marriage if infedility took place, some love so much and man/woman try to change repent and it works regardless of permission to leave marriage.They chose forgiveness, when they could easily leave. That is deep, but not for every circumstance I realize.
It goes much deeper, motives & Hebrews 4:12...He knows why people pull out scripture (whether to condemn or actually help someone) and if person divorcing has a valid reason, and even if they don't, he can still forgive like he forgave King David called the apple of his eye. Key was he was truly contrite and sorry for what he had done to sin against God and causing others pain and even taking a life as a result of his disobedience and lust. He also humbled himself before God as Gods presence departed from him during that state in his life, so many consequences. Question, are we really sorry for our sins (any sin) not just one over another category. Pride is a huge sin and disobedience, but yet people live with that daily and thnk they are better than those that commit the most socially & religiously unacceptable sins. It is a matter of the heart, and only God can read into that flawlessly, our perfect just judge. I thank God he is our judge, he will not make a mistake in judgement day and will judge everyone accordingly with all mercy granted prior in our lifetimes. His mercy, love forgiveness there right now for all, no matter the sin or situation. His mercy permits us to repent now while we breath & have an opportunity to choose, because it will be too late to take advantage of it once your life is over.Scripture reference: about Choose life now! I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;
Instructions from God to all & also teachers of word.....
Deuteronomy 30:18-20 Folllow him in all sincerity with a pure conscience as scripture indicated. 5 Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith, 6 from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk, 7 desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say nor the things which they affirm.
Read 1 Timothy Ch. 1 vs. 8 But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, 9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine.Another scripture 1 Corinthians 6:7 & on 7 Now therefore, it is already an utter failure for you that you go to law against one another. Why do you not rather accept wrong? Why do you not rather let yourselves be cheated? 8 No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren! 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
So there is hope & forgiveness, obviously if you have commited these sins you were not walking in truth at time, but hopefully you are now in all areas being new creatures and changed. Not perfect though. And for those that say, yes love & forgiveness will save me if I fall over & over, we should question the sincerity of trying to serve & follow christ, because then you are not truly in him & he is not in you.So I wouldn't just some brothers and sisters either trying to help you by teaching you Gods word. SeeMatthew 7:22-24
New King James Version (NKJV)
22 Many will say to Me in that day, �Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?� 23 And then I will declare to them, �I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!�
What is lawlessness in scripture, see
Galations 5:16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,[c] fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders,[d] drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ�s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.
**So we are to preach teach truth & if someone falls into sin, those that are spiritual help those people out, if they are open""" Written by Apostle Paul & I encourage all of us to teach and not hold back from it, as it brings enlightenment and life to others if they choose to obey it, so I am not against speaking truth and pointing out scripture on any subject including divorce, but we have to divide word properly and with understanding for it to be the most effective. It is much much deeper on how we handle our owns sins and also the ones around us. I believe we need to be cautious and not throw a stone, when we may have faults, but when you trying to live right and righteous you are encouraged in scripture to divide word to help others so it is our job and we are not to feel guilty as if we are juding, we are only reading scripture to others that is inspired by God and the messengers. See scriptures Luke 6: 37 �Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38 Give, and it will be given to you: good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over will be put into your bosom. For with the same measure that you use, it will be measured back to you.�
39 And He spoke a parable to them: �Can the blind lead the blind? Will they not both fall into the ditch? 40 A disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone who is perfectly trained will be like his teacher. 41 And why do you look at the speck in your brother�s eye, but do not perceive the plank in your own eye? 42 Or how can you say to your brother, �Brother, let me remove the speck that is in your eye,� when you yourself do not see the plank that is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck that is in your brother�s eye.
So at some point, you can teach and call people out in their sins, as you read the then part......
Another area that people get defensive about and misquote scripture about Judging saying nobody has right to judge...
You have to understand how the spiritual judging works, it is for good and not for condemnation. See below....
I Cor 6 vs1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unrighteous, and not before the saints? 2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life?
***So judgment can be done when executed properly to help someone spiritually....
Hoping everyone is drawing closer to God as nobody is promised tomorrow! He is so ready to help us live a victorious christian life, but we have to do our part.
If anyone would like a compiliation of this study about love,forgiveness, divorce, sins, how would Jesus & disciples handle sin and in church body, teaching and authority to judge christians around us, just request.I am working on structuring this for study purposes....I did not proofread due to time constraints, but study will be in order soon. I have more scriptures too, that I was unable to add at this time. Hope God keeps guiding and helping you as your strive to live for him & contine to seek his truths....
Would anyone consider spousal abuse a breaking of the "marriage Comittment" and thus safe grounds for divorce? Did not God call husbands to "Love your wives as I have loved the church."? I have known a woman who loved her husband and endured his abuses for decades. Finally, in her old age, he was arrested (not sure who called the police) for hitting her, and they were separated. She struggled to forgive him until her very last days, but she never divorced him. For the woman who seeks to live a godly life and chooses to forgive her husband, even separated, all the more power to her. But for the woman who divorces but never does forgive, does that leave her as having sinned? Unforgiveness, and Unbelief. To my knowledge, these are the only unforgiveable sins. How does that play out in this equation?
