Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 2 Feb, 2012 11:28 PM
Thanks to a question about divorce and remarriage posted on another thread, I felt the need to address those on this site who may be suffering from the weight of guilt and condemnation heaped on them because of their reasons for divorce.
I wrote the following article, "The Stone Thrower", based on actual instances that happened on this site. If you are one of those who have been ostracized by others for having an "Unbiblical Divorce," please take the time to read. May it minister to your heart.
The Stone Thrower
I want to touch on a subject today that has long been regarded in Christendom as taboo . . . and that is . . . DIVORCE. Mention that word around some Christians and their hackles suddenly go up on the back of their neck. They pull out their proverbial stones ready to put to death anyone who they think has been un-biblically divorced. And to my shame, I was one of them�a stone thrower.
We all know the story of the woman caught in adultery in John 8:3-11. The scribes and Pharisees (the religious self-righteous) had arrested this woman and dragged her before Jesus. One has to wonder how these Pharisees caught such a woman "in the very act" of adultery. How convenient for them. It's amazing the depths of depravity the self-righteous will sink to in order to defend their religious arguments. Did they have the paparazzi spy on her to get some juicy pictures for the whole world to see?
At any rate, they dragged this poor woman in front of Jesus and proudly proclaimed, "Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?" (John 8:5)
Zowie!! These men can quote the Word of God . . . at least the parts that suit their fancy.
I like our Lord's reaction. "But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear" (John 8:6b).
Don't you just love it when someone ignores you . . . especially when you're trying to win an argument? But the self-righteous rarely lie down without a fight, and those religious Pharisees were determined to prove that they had the "truth." So they continued pestering Jesus, knowing that the Law of Moses was on their side. It's not a good idea to pester Jesus, especially when it comes to "pointing a finger" at someone.
"So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, 'He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.' And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. Then those who heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning from the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst" (John 8:7-9).
This introductory story of the woman caught in adultery has a purpose: I wanted you to have a glimpse of the mentality of a "stone thrower." They are usually self-righteous, ready to condemn, and can quote the Word of God. Ouch . . . I just described me.
I had a clear cut answer for the reasons one might give to justify divorce which I thought was quite Biblical. And in my mind, there was only one reason . . . "But I say to you, that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except for sexual immorality, causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery" (Matthew 5:32). There you have it�plain and simple. Who could argue with such a statement? It is the Word of God! I thought I had the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth . . . yet the truth is . . . I was ignorant of the ways of God. "For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment" (James 2:13).
And it was in my ignorance to God's ways that I threw stones at the divorced ladies on a Christian dating site some time ago. As a widower, I was on this site looking for a prospective wife. I was so appalled at the amount of women who were divorced on this site whose reasons for separating from their husbands did not match my view of scripture. In order to protect myself from these "contaminated souls," I purposely wrote something in my profile for those that I would consider as wife material: "You may be single, widowed, or divorced (must be for Biblical reasons only)."
When I would communicate with these divorced ladies, I would immediately ask them to provide details on the reason for their divorce. If they could not give me an answer of infidelity as the reason for their divorce, then I considered them unmarriageable. Yet God has a way of grabbing His child's attention when that child is in error.
One of the ladies on this dating site told me her story of divorce after I demanded it. Her husband was deep in bondage to pornography and had no interest whatsoever in repentance. The man had not physically hopped into bed with another woman, and so in my self-righteousness, I condemned the poor wife for wanting to opt out on the marriage. And the "stones" that I threw created fresh wounds in her heart while she recounted those painful memories of her husband's infidelity as he lusted after porn. According to Jesus' own words, her husband WAS GUILTY of adultery: "But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart" (Matthew 5:28). I ignored that scripture and concentrated only on Matthew 5:32. She lashed out at me, saying that she was glad Jesus did not condemn her even if I did. I have to admit, I was shaken by her story which moved me to tears.
Then there was another lady whom I demanded to give an account for her divorce. I threw "stones" at her as well when she could not give me a reason of infidelity for her separation. In bitter anger, she struck back at me, stating how her husband had broken her nose and physically abused her. I ignored the scripture which reads, "But God has called us to peace" (1 Corinthians 7:15b) and concentrated again on Matthew 5:32. However, her story bothered me very much just like the other woman's.
I began to seek God earnestly. These were only two of the many ladies who shared with me their heartbreaking stories of divorce. There were so many reasons given for divorce and none of them fell under sexual immorality (fornication) as I saw it. I sincerely asked the Lord to open my eyes. Was there any scriptural evidence to support these women's choices to opt out of a marriage other than infidelity? Yes, there was.
God led me to Matthew 19:3-12. The Pharisees were looking for a reason to trap Jesus in His words. Their previous scheme had not worked with the woman caught in adultery. However, if they could just get Jesus to say something contradictory to the Law of Moses, then they could brand Him as a heretic. So they asked Jesus this question, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?" (Matthew 19:3b)
Jesus' answer was, and still is, God's original intention for marriage: "Have you not read . . . the two shall become one flesh? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate" (Matthew 19:5b-6).
The Pharisees did not like His answer. For Jesus had taken them right back to Genesis before there ever was a Moses or a Law of Moses so that they could hear what GOD SAYS about marriage. Yet the stiff-necked Pharisees persisted with another question: "Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?" (Matthew 19:7)
Jesus responds, "Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so" (Matthew 19:8).
The self-righteous Pharisees were using the Law of Moses as an excuse to bail out on marriages for any flippant reason. And because of this, the Lord had some very strong words for them. "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery" (Matthew 19:9).
I can just hear the stone throwers shouting, "See, I told you . . . it's right there in the word . . . 'sexual immorality!'"
Wait a minute. Like Paul Harvey, let's hear "the rest of the story" before jumping to any conclusions. After verse 9 comes verse 10. Even Jesus' disciples, which would include us, were amazed at the words of Jesus. "His disciples said to Him, 'If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry'" (Matthew 19:10). Yeah, I can see their point. If sexual immorality (fornication) is the only reason for divorce, then perhaps we are better off not getting married.
But look at Jesus' response to his own disciples in verse 11. It stands to reason that if the disciples' statement was true, then Jesus would have said something to affirm it as such. He does not!
"But He said to them, 'All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given'" (Matthew 19:11).
What saying? The saying in verse 9 of course. NOT ALL can accept the saying that fornication is the ONLY reason for divorce.
Now notice that Jesus goes on to explain what He meant with the following verse:
"For there are eunuchs who were born thus from their mother's womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He who is able to accept it, let him accept it" (Matthew 19:12).
What did Jesus mean by this? He tells us that three different men all became eunuchs for different reasons. One was born a eunuch, another was made a eunuch by men, and still another made himself that way for the kingdom of heaven. They all became eunuchs for different reasons, but who is to say which eunuch is "God approved"? God accepted them all. That's the point!
Likewise, there are many reasons someone might seek a divorce: physical and verbal abuse from a spouse . . . being married to an unbeliever who makes life a literal hell . . . marital unfaithfulness . . . the stress of being married to an alcoholic for 23 years . . . or living with a pornographer who refuses to repent. Which one of these reasons for divorce is "God approved"? That's the point Jesus was making. Just as the eunuchs were acceptable to God regardless of how they became a eunuch, so also is a woman acceptable to God who seeks to be free from an abusive husband, even if infidelity is not involved. You and I cannot see in the heart of that abused person . . . but God can. For God has called them to peace.
And the church has done more harm counselling emotionally and physically battered women to stay in a relationship citing Matthew 5:32 "except for sexual immorality" as the only just cause for divorce. Women have actually committed suicide and murder under the stress of remaining in an abusive situation because their legalistic church counseled them to do so.
You may have heard of the case in the U.S. where a lady killed her husband (a pastor) who had been abusing her for years. God had called her to peace . . . but she never knew it, and one day she snapped. The evidence of abuse was so overwhelming that the courts found this woman not guilty of murder by reason of insanity.
I certainly do not want to imply that people should take their marriage so lightly as to divorce for every whim and fancy. I would not condone that, and neither does the Word of God. Every marriage will have its share of problems which can be worked out with God's help by two committed individuals. Yet there are some women, especially those suffering physical and mental abuse, who have reached the tipping point of no return; and the only thing they can do to preserve their sanity is to get out of that marriage. And ultimately, it is to the Lord they answer to, not you or me. He has called them to peace.
After God opened my eyes to the truth of scripture, I contacted those ladies on the dating site who I had thrown "stones" at and apologized profusely. I was truly grieved that I had been so self-righteous and blind, wounding those precious sisters for whom Christ died.
Now back to the story that I began with. The "stone throwers" had already dropped their rocks and left the scene with a guilty conscience, leaving Jesus alone with the adulterous woman.
"He said to her, 'Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?'"
"She said, 'No one, Lord.'"
"And Jesus said to her, 'Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more'" (John 8:10b-11).
HALLELUJAH�MERCY TRIUMPHS OVER JUDGMENT!!!
Blessings in Christ Jesus,
Paul Janz
(All Scripture quotations are taken from the Holy Bible, New King James Version.)
"The Stone Thrower" Copyright � 2010 by Paul Janz.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 8 Jun, 2012 12:51 PM
Singer,�
You wrote: "How come you won't bring up 1 corrinthians 7 vs 10 and 11, and 7 vs 38 and 39, and Romans 7 vs 2 and 3 and Revelation 21 vs 8 and Hebrews 13 vs 4 in your counterargument?"
Revelation 21:8�But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Hebrews 13:4�Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.
1 Corinthians 6:9-12 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
1 John 1:9�If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 8 Jun, 2012 12:52 PM
Singer, you wrote: "Explain hebrews 10 vs 26 in with your once saved always saved doctrine teach ib if you will please? "
I already did this...on multiple occasions. �I can never live up to perfection as hard as I try and God knew we would fail even after we received the free gift of Salvation. �He provided a plan prior to creating man.�
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 8 Jun, 2012 12:53 PM
Singer, you wrote: "From Hebrews 10 vs 26 on to 31 here it states clearly that the ones sinning willfully did it unto the Spirit of Grace (Holy Spirit?) Also Yahweh says he will recompence and it says Yahweh will judge his people. Note his people= thats believers! Clear and concise. He then says its a fearful thing to fall into his hands in this state as it refers. Matthew 10 vs 28 answers this : And be not afraid of them that kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. This is very literal and says this as a warning just after given the assurances passages that you quoted which i understand all thats before and after this Hebrews 10 vs 26."
I provided the context prior to those verses. �Either you accept what the WHOLE Bible teaches, or you can pick and choose which parts to believe.
The Gospel of Christ is liberating not grievous. �
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 8 Jun, 2012 12:54 PM
Singer, you wrote: "Teach ib, there are many things you don't know concerning before Moses law as in your question to Bob concerning Noah. "
How do you know what I know or do not know about Moses? �I asked that question to show the fallacy of putting trust in the law and the 10 Commandments for salvation. �Noah did not have the 10 Commandments as they were given to Moses.
The verses I have provided on grace versus law suffice as written...and Noah was saved based on the grace God provided him, his wife, his three sons, and their wives.
Singer wrote: "Also in your commentary with Bob you said you do this and thats fine if you do.However his point was there is no way you can keep the two if you don't know the 10 by heart. We have to know them. I know them by heart. By keeping the 10 we keep the two and by keeping the two we keep the 10.
The 10 commandments are forever! They are the Torah too!"
My response: I never said I don't know the 10 Commandments...I have a real problem with you and Bob telling me what I know and do not know. �As I have stated before, you do not know what I know or where I learned it because I have not revealed any of that."
�Singer wrote: "Also teach ib I study the word for myself but i do receive from other teachers who i agree with their doctrine and present it to others. But they usually confirm what I leanred in 26 years of study but they have also taught me many things I didn't know. We should all be teachable so we can arrive at the truth unadulterated"
I would imagine if you only look at teachings from others that agree with you, they would confirm your beliefs. �I look at all sides...whether I agree or not to be able prove and counter prove what I believe and do not believe.
2 Timothy 2:15-16�Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 8 Jun, 2012 12:56 PM
Singer you wrote, "Teach ib, you can't learn everything through the teachings of your denomination for they all have errors. You have to receive truth from the Holy Spirit for total accuracy!!!!"
Again, you are making assumptions about how I gained my Scriptural knowledge. �You cannot learn everything through your denomination either. �I am not questioning how or from who you learned. �You do not know my background. �Just because I list Baptist as my denomination doesn't mean I learned everything I know from Baptist teachings. �Baptists teach a wide variety of things...as does every other denomination because humans are the teachers/preachers.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 8 Jun, 2012 12:58 PM
Singer,
You wrote to Paul: "�You want people to only see from your narrow minded self delusional teachings proved by the point that that's all you post. Yet I want truth from all the Word of Yahweh for the good of all here. "
I do not perceive these as words from someone seeking to have a discussion. �You have regularly posted the same verses and parts of posts on multiple occasions. �Based on that, others could deduce that you may be narrow minded and delusional. �You also only post verses of significance to your view. �We cannot put the entire Bible on the thread, although we have put a lot of verses here.
It is the responsibility of the readers to go to their Bible and read the context and prove the thoughts and views of others. �That's why I come to this site and this forum.
This thread, as I mentioned in my first post only a few days ago, hit home for me. �I �researched the topic of divorce and remarriage (again and more in depth) �from Sep through April for a variety of reasons. �I could post more but other readers should take the time to seek the answer to their specific situation as this thread can't cover every circumstance.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 8 Jun, 2012 01:00 PM
Singer wrote referring to Paul: "NOTICE READERS OF THIS FORUM. This man never answers with scripture on a point by point refutation of scripture. He hides behind his lack of widom and knowledge by studying the whole counsel of Yahweh. Beware his continually posted inconclusive teachings lacking all verses pertaining to a matter at hand which weakens and waters it down!!! Example: In his stone thrower's thesis why is 1 Corrinthians 7 vs 10 and 11 and vs 38 and 39 and Romans 7 vs 2 and 3 not included in it as well as many more that need to be there or applied to it for total truth to guard our souls. The apostle Paul said that 1 Corrinthians 7 vs 10 and 11 was the Lord's direct command! This guy paul janz is following his own short sided view of the scriptures and it can be a potential stumbling block to those unlearned and untrained and new in the faith of messiah!"
My response: not in defense of Paul specifically ( as he needs no defense), but in response to the overall statements made in this post. �These statements could apply to me or others on multiple threads because there comes a time when it is not worthwhile to continue to post on a topic or a thread.
Just because you do not like how or if someone responds to something you post, does not make that person a coward, short sighted, or wrong!
As i posted recently:
Singer, I do not perceive these as words from someone seeking to have a discussion. �You have regularly posted the same verses and parts of posts on multiple occasions. �Based on that, others could deduce that you may be narrow minded and delusional. �You also only post verses of significance to your view. �We cannot put the entire Bible on the thread, although we have put a lot of verses here.
It is the responsibility of the readers to go to their Bible and read the context and prove the thoughts and views of others. �That's why I come to this site and this forum.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 8 Jun, 2012 01:01 PM
Bob, I thought you weren't going to dialogue with me anymore?
You wrote: "A true GOLD NUGGET for the readers:
"Teach ib, you can't learn everything through the teachings of your denomination for they all have errors. You have to receive truth from the Holy Spirit for total accuracy!!!! "
Singer wrote, "Teach ib, you can't learn everything through the teachings of your denomination for they all have errors. You have to receive truth from the Holy Spirit for total accuracy!!!!"
My response: Again, you are making assumptions about how I gained my Scriptural knowledge. �You cannot learn everything through your denomination either. �I am not questioning how or from who you learned. �You do not know my background. �Just because I list Baptist as my denomination doesn't mean I learned everything I know from Baptist teachings. �Baptists teach a wide variety of things...as does every other denomination because humans are the teachers/preachers.
Bob wrote: "Here is one of the worst BAPTIST lies:
All we have to do is "Say A Sinner's Prayer" and we are "SAVED, Guaranteed Heaven and A Rapture in the air"."
The verses I have previously posted on salvation, ETERNAL ( that means forever) Life stand for themselves. �I know of many groups (denominations) who rely on the Bible for this fundamental truth. �I also know many groups that do not. �
As i responded to Singer, who wrote: "Explain hebrews 10 vs 26 in with your once saved always saved doctrine teach ib if you will please? "
I already did this...on multiple occasions. �I can never live up to perfection as hard as I try and God knew we would fail even after we received the free gift of Salvation. �He provided a plan prior to creating man.�
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 8 Jun, 2012 01:02 PM
Bob,�
in your profile you list for your denomination: "�I believe in the Five Solas"
I looked up the five solas to better understand your views. �I am posting only a summary of the five (from Wikipedia...not necessarily the authoritative source, but fairly reliable)
1. Sola scriptura is the teaching that the Bible is the only inspired and authoritative word of God, is the only source for Christian doctrine, and is accessible to all�that is, it is perspicuous and self-interpreting. That the Bible requires no interpretation outside of itself is in direct opposition.
� � My comments: I fully agree with this and have stated that in my posts.
2.�Sola fide is the teaching that justification (interpreted in Protestant theology as "being declared just by God") is received by faith only, without any mixture of or need for good works, though in classical Protestant theology, saving faith is always evidenced, but not determined, by good works.�
� �My comments: I fully agree with this...however, I have seen posts from Bob that disagree with this statement.
3.�Sola gratia is the teaching that salvation comes by divine grace or "unmerited favor" only, not as something merited by the sinner. This means that salvation is an unearned gift from God for Jesus' sake.�
� � My comments: Amen, hallelujah...salvation absolutely is a free gift from God available to all, accepted by some.
4. �Solus Christus is the teaching that�Christ is the only mediator between God and man, and that there is salvation through no other.
� � My comments: Amen, hallelujah...I do not have to go through a priest or anyone else to talk with my Heavenly Father. �Salvation is through the shed blood and death of Jesus, Christ my Lord.
5. Soli Deo gloria is the teaching that all glory is to be due to God alone, since salvation is accomplished solely through His will and action � not only the gift of the all-sufficient atonement of Jesus on the cross but also the gift of faith in that atonement, created in the heart of the believer by the Holy Spirit. That is that one should not exalt humans for their good works, but rather praise and give glory to God who is the author and sanctifier of these people and their good works.
� My comments: agree,�Revelation 4:11�Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 8 Jun, 2012 01:03 PM
Bob you wrote to Paul,�
"You have made a mockery of this thread with your continued childish cutting and pasting. You have also devalued this website and the free tools that are given here for all to enjoy such as these forums. There are others who have been following this thread for the purpose of learning from the posts. I know because I have been in contact with several. Yet, you continue to litter the conversation with your antics.
If you can't show any respect for yourself, at least show it to the website and those on it who are trying to learn. You have been warned."
My response: not in defense of Paul specifically ( as he needs no defense), but in response to the overall statements made in this post. �These statements could apply to me or others on multiple threads.
Just because you do not like how or if someone responds to something you post, does not make that person a coward, childish, short sighted, or wrong!
As i posted to Singer:
I do not perceive these as words from someone seeking to have a discussion. �You have regularly posted the same verses and parts of posts on multiple occasions. �Based on that, others could deduce that you may be narrow minded and delusional. �You also only post verses of significance to your view. �We cannot put the entire Bible on the thread, although we have put a lot of verses here.
It is the responsibility of the readers to go to their Bible and read the context and prove the thoughts and views of others. �That's why I come to this site and this forum.
