Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 2 Feb, 2012 11:28 PM
Thanks to a question about divorce and remarriage posted on another thread, I felt the need to address those on this site who may be suffering from the weight of guilt and condemnation heaped on them because of their reasons for divorce.
I wrote the following article, "The Stone Thrower", based on actual instances that happened on this site. If you are one of those who have been ostracized by others for having an "Unbiblical Divorce," please take the time to read. May it minister to your heart.
The Stone Thrower
I want to touch on a subject today that has long been regarded in Christendom as taboo . . . and that is . . . DIVORCE. Mention that word around some Christians and their hackles suddenly go up on the back of their neck. They pull out their proverbial stones ready to put to death anyone who they think has been un-biblically divorced. And to my shame, I was one of them�a stone thrower.
We all know the story of the woman caught in adultery in John 8:3-11. The scribes and Pharisees (the religious self-righteous) had arrested this woman and dragged her before Jesus. One has to wonder how these Pharisees caught such a woman "in the very act" of adultery. How convenient for them. It's amazing the depths of depravity the self-righteous will sink to in order to defend their religious arguments. Did they have the paparazzi spy on her to get some juicy pictures for the whole world to see?
At any rate, they dragged this poor woman in front of Jesus and proudly proclaimed, "Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?" (John 8:5)
Zowie!! These men can quote the Word of God . . . at least the parts that suit their fancy.
I like our Lord's reaction. "But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear" (John 8:6b).
Don't you just love it when someone ignores you . . . especially when you're trying to win an argument? But the self-righteous rarely lie down without a fight, and those religious Pharisees were determined to prove that they had the "truth." So they continued pestering Jesus, knowing that the Law of Moses was on their side. It's not a good idea to pester Jesus, especially when it comes to "pointing a finger" at someone.
"So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, 'He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.' And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. Then those who heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning from the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst" (John 8:7-9).
This introductory story of the woman caught in adultery has a purpose: I wanted you to have a glimpse of the mentality of a "stone thrower." They are usually self-righteous, ready to condemn, and can quote the Word of God. Ouch . . . I just described me.
I had a clear cut answer for the reasons one might give to justify divorce which I thought was quite Biblical. And in my mind, there was only one reason . . . "But I say to you, that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except for sexual immorality, causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery" (Matthew 5:32). There you have it�plain and simple. Who could argue with such a statement? It is the Word of God! I thought I had the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth . . . yet the truth is . . . I was ignorant of the ways of God. "For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment" (James 2:13).
And it was in my ignorance to God's ways that I threw stones at the divorced ladies on a Christian dating site some time ago. As a widower, I was on this site looking for a prospective wife. I was so appalled at the amount of women who were divorced on this site whose reasons for separating from their husbands did not match my view of scripture. In order to protect myself from these "contaminated souls," I purposely wrote something in my profile for those that I would consider as wife material: "You may be single, widowed, or divorced (must be for Biblical reasons only)."
When I would communicate with these divorced ladies, I would immediately ask them to provide details on the reason for their divorce. If they could not give me an answer of infidelity as the reason for their divorce, then I considered them unmarriageable. Yet God has a way of grabbing His child's attention when that child is in error.
One of the ladies on this dating site told me her story of divorce after I demanded it. Her husband was deep in bondage to pornography and had no interest whatsoever in repentance. The man had not physically hopped into bed with another woman, and so in my self-righteousness, I condemned the poor wife for wanting to opt out on the marriage. And the "stones" that I threw created fresh wounds in her heart while she recounted those painful memories of her husband's infidelity as he lusted after porn. According to Jesus' own words, her husband WAS GUILTY of adultery: "But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart" (Matthew 5:28). I ignored that scripture and concentrated only on Matthew 5:32. She lashed out at me, saying that she was glad Jesus did not condemn her even if I did. I have to admit, I was shaken by her story which moved me to tears.
Then there was another lady whom I demanded to give an account for her divorce. I threw "stones" at her as well when she could not give me a reason of infidelity for her separation. In bitter anger, she struck back at me, stating how her husband had broken her nose and physically abused her. I ignored the scripture which reads, "But God has called us to peace" (1 Corinthians 7:15b) and concentrated again on Matthew 5:32. However, her story bothered me very much just like the other woman's.
I began to seek God earnestly. These were only two of the many ladies who shared with me their heartbreaking stories of divorce. There were so many reasons given for divorce and none of them fell under sexual immorality (fornication) as I saw it. I sincerely asked the Lord to open my eyes. Was there any scriptural evidence to support these women's choices to opt out of a marriage other than infidelity? Yes, there was.
God led me to Matthew 19:3-12. The Pharisees were looking for a reason to trap Jesus in His words. Their previous scheme had not worked with the woman caught in adultery. However, if they could just get Jesus to say something contradictory to the Law of Moses, then they could brand Him as a heretic. So they asked Jesus this question, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?" (Matthew 19:3b)
Jesus' answer was, and still is, God's original intention for marriage: "Have you not read . . . the two shall become one flesh? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate" (Matthew 19:5b-6).
The Pharisees did not like His answer. For Jesus had taken them right back to Genesis before there ever was a Moses or a Law of Moses so that they could hear what GOD SAYS about marriage. Yet the stiff-necked Pharisees persisted with another question: "Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?" (Matthew 19:7)
Jesus responds, "Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so" (Matthew 19:8).
The self-righteous Pharisees were using the Law of Moses as an excuse to bail out on marriages for any flippant reason. And because of this, the Lord had some very strong words for them. "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery" (Matthew 19:9).
I can just hear the stone throwers shouting, "See, I told you . . . it's right there in the word . . . 'sexual immorality!'"
Wait a minute. Like Paul Harvey, let's hear "the rest of the story" before jumping to any conclusions. After verse 9 comes verse 10. Even Jesus' disciples, which would include us, were amazed at the words of Jesus. "His disciples said to Him, 'If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry'" (Matthew 19:10). Yeah, I can see their point. If sexual immorality (fornication) is the only reason for divorce, then perhaps we are better off not getting married.
But look at Jesus' response to his own disciples in verse 11. It stands to reason that if the disciples' statement was true, then Jesus would have said something to affirm it as such. He does not!
"But He said to them, 'All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given'" (Matthew 19:11).
What saying? The saying in verse 9 of course. NOT ALL can accept the saying that fornication is the ONLY reason for divorce.
Now notice that Jesus goes on to explain what He meant with the following verse:
"For there are eunuchs who were born thus from their mother's womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He who is able to accept it, let him accept it" (Matthew 19:12).
What did Jesus mean by this? He tells us that three different men all became eunuchs for different reasons. One was born a eunuch, another was made a eunuch by men, and still another made himself that way for the kingdom of heaven. They all became eunuchs for different reasons, but who is to say which eunuch is "God approved"? God accepted them all. That's the point!
Likewise, there are many reasons someone might seek a divorce: physical and verbal abuse from a spouse . . . being married to an unbeliever who makes life a literal hell . . . marital unfaithfulness . . . the stress of being married to an alcoholic for 23 years . . . or living with a pornographer who refuses to repent. Which one of these reasons for divorce is "God approved"? That's the point Jesus was making. Just as the eunuchs were acceptable to God regardless of how they became a eunuch, so also is a woman acceptable to God who seeks to be free from an abusive husband, even if infidelity is not involved. You and I cannot see in the heart of that abused person . . . but God can. For God has called them to peace.
And the church has done more harm counselling emotionally and physically battered women to stay in a relationship citing Matthew 5:32 "except for sexual immorality" as the only just cause for divorce. Women have actually committed suicide and murder under the stress of remaining in an abusive situation because their legalistic church counseled them to do so.
You may have heard of the case in the U.S. where a lady killed her husband (a pastor) who had been abusing her for years. God had called her to peace . . . but she never knew it, and one day she snapped. The evidence of abuse was so overwhelming that the courts found this woman not guilty of murder by reason of insanity.
I certainly do not want to imply that people should take their marriage so lightly as to divorce for every whim and fancy. I would not condone that, and neither does the Word of God. Every marriage will have its share of problems which can be worked out with God's help by two committed individuals. Yet there are some women, especially those suffering physical and mental abuse, who have reached the tipping point of no return; and the only thing they can do to preserve their sanity is to get out of that marriage. And ultimately, it is to the Lord they answer to, not you or me. He has called them to peace.
After God opened my eyes to the truth of scripture, I contacted those ladies on the dating site who I had thrown "stones" at and apologized profusely. I was truly grieved that I had been so self-righteous and blind, wounding those precious sisters for whom Christ died.
Now back to the story that I began with. The "stone throwers" had already dropped their rocks and left the scene with a guilty conscience, leaving Jesus alone with the adulterous woman.
"He said to her, 'Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?'"
"She said, 'No one, Lord.'"
"And Jesus said to her, 'Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more'" (John 8:10b-11).
HALLELUJAH�MERCY TRIUMPHS OVER JUDGMENT!!!
Blessings in Christ Jesus,
Paul Janz
(All Scripture quotations are taken from the Holy Bible, New King James Version.)
"The Stone Thrower" Copyright � 2010 by Paul Janz.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 7 Jun, 2012 11:43 AM
Hebrews 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
So Singer, you are correct that there will be no liars, thieves, adulterers, fornicators, etc in Heaven because sin cannot enter in...sinners who have received God's gift of eternal life/salvation through Jesus, Christ our Lord, have had their sins forgotten...PAID IN FULL.
Satan stands ready to accuse Chrisitians of any sin they have ever committed...but Jesus stands with me in front of the Father, the Judge, and says, Not guilty...paid bymy blood.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 7 Jun, 2012 11:48 AM
Singer, while you are correct about the reasons God told Hose to marry Gomer, i think you missed this verse:
Hosea 2:2 Plead with your mother, plead: for she is not my wife, neither am I her husband: let her therefore put away her whoredoms out of her sight, and her adulteries from between her b*****;
This shows that Hosea did stay with her throughout. He did not consider himself her husband....
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 7 Jun, 2012 12:05 PM
Teach_ib
All I can say is " wow." Talk about polluting a bored with off topic ranting. You have demonstrated that I chose my words quite well. However, I will add "double-minded" as well to that description"
Now, returning to the points that I addressed to you specifically. Can we try to just do that? Let's just start with my first post to you. I asked you several questions here.. you have not answered one of them.
If a police officer stops you and tells you that you were speeding, do you tell him that he is a "legalist" and that you are under "grace"?
Any society without laws is a society without order. This would produce a scenario of anarchy. A scenario like this one in Judges 17: 6 In those days there was no king in Israel, but every man did that which was right in his own eyes.
Why does the Bible tell us to obey the civil law? Was the Apostle Paul a "legalist"? If, as Christians, we must obey the civil law, why then should we be excused from obeying the law/word of Yahweh?
Do you believe that any king rules a kingdom without law? Why then would you assert that the King of kings would expect any less of you then to follow the laws of His kingdom?
Does grace provide an ethical standard by which to live your life as a believer? Please prove your theory that grace can provide a day to day standard by which to discern right from wrong.
If not God's law, then who's law are you under/subject to? your own? Satans? Americas? I am very curious.
Over and over, I see ridiculous conclusions such as the one that you have drawn that you are some how free from keeping the commands of Yahweh. Jesus himself said " If ye love me, keep my commandments" John 14:15
Do you believe that Jesus taught different commandments than His Father in heaven?
Let me be clear - keeping the law of Yahweh makes one a lawful citizen of His kingdom. It does not make one a "legalist"
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 7 Jun, 2012 12:15 PM
Paul,
We all know that your cut and paste feature works well. Simply repeating the same thing over and over ( in your case over and over and over...) does not make it true. I have offered now 6 valid points of refutation to your article. You have not answered a single one.
Now, you are taking cover behind a woman's skirt. Paul, I am challenging you to come out from behind that skirt, read the posts that I have written to you that directly refute your article, put down your stones, quit name calling, be a man and defend your article. Can you do that?
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 7 Jun, 2012 12:20 PM
Bob,
You and Singer accuse Paul and me about not addressing your questions. So instead of one massive response, I chose to break my responses into smaller chunks to make it clear.
You still do not understand the definition of schizophrenic...otherwise, you would not use it in the sense you are trying to infer.
As for the police officer incident...the police officer has the option of showing mercy on me...while I may have broken the law, he has the choice of giving me a ticket or not....I've experienced both. So in the case of God, He can chose how He may punish me for any sin I may commit...or as was demonstrated throughout the Bible, God may chose NOT to punish me for my sin. Since God is a just God, He must punish sin with death...Romans6:23a "For the wages of sin is death..."
However, Romans 5:8 " But God His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.". Christ paid the death penalty. So Romans 6:23b "...but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." was given to me when Romans 10:13 "For whosever shall call upon the name of the Lord SHALL be saved.". There's no maybes or strings attached there...no further conditions to be saved.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 7 Jun, 2012 12:24 PM
So then Bob, since I am saved by the grace of God, I am not under (judged) by the law...
John 1:17�For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Romans 4:14�For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
Romans5 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.�20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.�
What is justification? �God's act of declaring or making a sinner righteous through Christ's atoning sacrifice...just as if I never sinned.
Romans 6 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 18 Being then made free from sin, ye became�the servants of righteousness. 19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. 20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. 21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. 22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.�
Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Galatians 5 �1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. 2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. 3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. 6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 7 Jun, 2012 12:33 PM
These are rhe commandments I follow...as Christ instructed.
Mark 12:28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 7 Jun, 2012 12:39 PM
Bob,
You wrote: "Let me be clear - keeping the law of Yahweh makes one a lawful citizen of His kingdom. It does not make one a "legalist""
You're right, keeping the law does not make one a legalists; however, holding rigidly to laws and not showing mercy like Christ did/does, makes one a legalist.
I'm sure I could find some sin you are guilty of and proclaim the punishment listed in the Bible...as did the Pharisees in the original post of this thread. I choose not to look at or for your sins because I am not without sin soi will not cast stones.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 7 Jun, 2012 12:50 PM
Bob, you wrote:
"Now, you are taking cover behind a woman's skirt. Paul, I am challenging you to come out from behind that skirt, read the posts that I have written to you that directly refute your article, put down your stones, quit name calling, be a man and defend your article. Can you do that?"
For the record, No one is hiding behind my skirt...once again you are talking about me without knowledge of me. I haven't had a skirt on since I started posting in this thread...and last I checked, even if I did have a skirt on, no one is hiding behind me.
I would say that Paul is saying Amen to my posts because they are refuting Singer and your posts. God's Word speaks for itself which is why I rely upon it.
You both claim that you rely on God's Word but you add your own, or in many cases, other people's words and interpretations. There is nothing inherently wrong with providing your interpretation of Scripture...but when you insinuate you are more qualified to make that interpretation, you are crossing the line.
Again, you have no idea what I have studied, where I have studied, or what my qualifications are...and I'm pretty sure you don't know that about Paul either.
I deal with people in many lines of work that have a "better than thou" attitude...and they more often than not prove their own lack of knowledge or how to apply that knowledge in the situation they are in.
Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 7 Jun, 2012 12:54 PM
Teach_ib
Thank you for your most recent attempt to stay on point and actually address and answer the questions that were posed to you.
My original intent (and it still stands) was to show the error in Paul's article. I have done so on at least 6 major points in this thread. Paul has failed to address those refutations.
At the end of the day, I believe that you still fail to see the plain truth of Scripture as it relates to divorce. No further dialogue on the subject will be fruitful.
In addition, I believe that you have no clear understanding the distinction of justification (which is by Jesus Christ) and sanctification (which is by the law). Further, the notion that you have only 2 commands to obey is just plain silly. You would not even be able to obey those commands biblically without a knowledge of the FULL law of God. For example, loving one's neighbor requires that we not kill them, not steal from them, not commit adultery with their wife, etc. The question he was answering in the text was "which was the first/greatest commandment" No further dialogue here will be fruitful either as you bring an unteachable spirit to the discussion.
In summary, one should always err on the side of full obedience to God in all matters and not be seeking loopholes to justify their sins.
