Author Thread: Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
really_54

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Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 2 Feb, 2012 11:28 PM

Thanks to a question about divorce and remarriage posted on another thread, I felt the need to address those on this site who may be suffering from the weight of guilt and condemnation heaped on them because of their reasons for divorce.



I wrote the following article, "The Stone Thrower", based on actual instances that happened on this site. If you are one of those who have been ostracized by others for having an "Unbiblical Divorce," please take the time to read. May it minister to your heart.



The Stone Thrower



I want to touch on a subject today that has long been regarded in Christendom as taboo . . . and that is . . . DIVORCE. Mention that word around some Christians and their hackles suddenly go up on the back of their neck. They pull out their proverbial stones ready to put to death anyone who they think has been un-biblically divorced. And to my shame, I was one of them�a stone thrower.



We all know the story of the woman caught in adultery in John 8:3-11. The scribes and Pharisees (the religious self-righteous) had arrested this woman and dragged her before Jesus. One has to wonder how these Pharisees caught such a woman "in the very act" of adultery. How convenient for them. It's amazing the depths of depravity the self-righteous will sink to in order to defend their religious arguments. Did they have the paparazzi spy on her to get some juicy pictures for the whole world to see?



At any rate, they dragged this poor woman in front of Jesus and proudly proclaimed, "Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?" (John 8:5)



Zowie!! These men can quote the Word of God . . . at least the parts that suit their fancy.



I like our Lord's reaction. "But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear" (John 8:6b).



Don't you just love it when someone ignores you . . . especially when you're trying to win an argument? But the self-righteous rarely lie down without a fight, and those religious Pharisees were determined to prove that they had the "truth." So they continued pestering Jesus, knowing that the Law of Moses was on their side. It's not a good idea to pester Jesus, especially when it comes to "pointing a finger" at someone.



"So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, 'He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.' And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. Then those who heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning from the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst" (John 8:7-9).



This introductory story of the woman caught in adultery has a purpose: I wanted you to have a glimpse of the mentality of a "stone thrower." They are usually self-righteous, ready to condemn, and can quote the Word of God. Ouch . . . I just described me.



I had a clear cut answer for the reasons one might give to justify divorce which I thought was quite Biblical. And in my mind, there was only one reason . . . "But I say to you, that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except for sexual immorality, causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery" (Matthew 5:32). There you have it�plain and simple. Who could argue with such a statement? It is the Word of God! I thought I had the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth . . . yet the truth is . . . I was ignorant of the ways of God. "For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment" (James 2:13).



And it was in my ignorance to God's ways that I threw stones at the divorced ladies on a Christian dating site some time ago. As a widower, I was on this site looking for a prospective wife. I was so appalled at the amount of women who were divorced on this site whose reasons for separating from their husbands did not match my view of scripture. In order to protect myself from these "contaminated souls," I purposely wrote something in my profile for those that I would consider as wife material: "You may be single, widowed, or divorced (must be for Biblical reasons only)."



When I would communicate with these divorced ladies, I would immediately ask them to provide details on the reason for their divorce. If they could not give me an answer of infidelity as the reason for their divorce, then I considered them unmarriageable. Yet God has a way of grabbing His child's attention when that child is in error.



One of the ladies on this dating site told me her story of divorce after I demanded it. Her husband was deep in bondage to pornography and had no interest whatsoever in repentance. The man had not physically hopped into bed with another woman, and so in my self-righteousness, I condemned the poor wife for wanting to opt out on the marriage. And the "stones" that I threw created fresh wounds in her heart while she recounted those painful memories of her husband's infidelity as he lusted after porn. According to Jesus' own words, her husband WAS GUILTY of adultery: "But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart" (Matthew 5:28). I ignored that scripture and concentrated only on Matthew 5:32. She lashed out at me, saying that she was glad Jesus did not condemn her even if I did. I have to admit, I was shaken by her story which moved me to tears.



Then there was another lady whom I demanded to give an account for her divorce. I threw "stones" at her as well when she could not give me a reason of infidelity for her separation. In bitter anger, she struck back at me, stating how her husband had broken her nose and physically abused her. I ignored the scripture which reads, "But God has called us to peace" (1 Corinthians 7:15b) and concentrated again on Matthew 5:32. However, her story bothered me very much just like the other woman's.



I began to seek God earnestly. These were only two of the many ladies who shared with me their heartbreaking stories of divorce. There were so many reasons given for divorce and none of them fell under sexual immorality (fornication) as I saw it. I sincerely asked the Lord to open my eyes. Was there any scriptural evidence to support these women's choices to opt out of a marriage other than infidelity? Yes, there was.



God led me to Matthew 19:3-12. The Pharisees were looking for a reason to trap Jesus in His words. Their previous scheme had not worked with the woman caught in adultery. However, if they could just get Jesus to say something contradictory to the Law of Moses, then they could brand Him as a heretic. So they asked Jesus this question, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?" (Matthew 19:3b)



Jesus' answer was, and still is, God's original intention for marriage: "Have you not read . . . the two shall become one flesh? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate" (Matthew 19:5b-6).



The Pharisees did not like His answer. For Jesus had taken them right back to Genesis before there ever was a Moses or a Law of Moses so that they could hear what GOD SAYS about marriage. Yet the stiff-necked Pharisees persisted with another question: "Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?" (Matthew 19:7)



Jesus responds, "Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so" (Matthew 19:8).



The self-righteous Pharisees were using the Law of Moses as an excuse to bail out on marriages for any flippant reason. And because of this, the Lord had some very strong words for them. "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery" (Matthew 19:9).



I can just hear the stone throwers shouting, "See, I told you . . . it's right there in the word . . . 'sexual immorality!'"



Wait a minute. Like Paul Harvey, let's hear "the rest of the story" before jumping to any conclusions. After verse 9 comes verse 10. Even Jesus' disciples, which would include us, were amazed at the words of Jesus. "His disciples said to Him, 'If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry'" (Matthew 19:10). Yeah, I can see their point. If sexual immorality (fornication) is the only reason for divorce, then perhaps we are better off not getting married.



But look at Jesus' response to his own disciples in verse 11. It stands to reason that if the disciples' statement was true, then Jesus would have said something to affirm it as such. He does not!



"But He said to them, 'All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given'" (Matthew 19:11).



What saying? The saying in verse 9 of course. NOT ALL can accept the saying that fornication is the ONLY reason for divorce.



Now notice that Jesus goes on to explain what He meant with the following verse:



"For there are eunuchs who were born thus from their mother's womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He who is able to accept it, let him accept it" (Matthew 19:12).



What did Jesus mean by this? He tells us that three different men all became eunuchs for different reasons. One was born a eunuch, another was made a eunuch by men, and still another made himself that way for the kingdom of heaven. They all became eunuchs for different reasons, but who is to say which eunuch is "God approved"? God accepted them all. That's the point!



Likewise, there are many reasons someone might seek a divorce: physical and verbal abuse from a spouse . . . being married to an unbeliever who makes life a literal hell . . . marital unfaithfulness . . . the stress of being married to an alcoholic for 23 years . . . or living with a pornographer who refuses to repent. Which one of these reasons for divorce is "God approved"? That's the point Jesus was making. Just as the eunuchs were acceptable to God regardless of how they became a eunuch, so also is a woman acceptable to God who seeks to be free from an abusive husband, even if infidelity is not involved. You and I cannot see in the heart of that abused person . . . but God can. For God has called them to peace.



And the church has done more harm counselling emotionally and physically battered women to stay in a relationship citing Matthew 5:32 "except for sexual immorality" as the only just cause for divorce. Women have actually committed suicide and murder under the stress of remaining in an abusive situation because their legalistic church counseled them to do so.



You may have heard of the case in the U.S. where a lady killed her husband (a pastor) who had been abusing her for years. God had called her to peace . . . but she never knew it, and one day she snapped. The evidence of abuse was so overwhelming that the courts found this woman not guilty of murder by reason of insanity.



I certainly do not want to imply that people should take their marriage so lightly as to divorce for every whim and fancy. I would not condone that, and neither does the Word of God. Every marriage will have its share of problems which can be worked out with God's help by two committed individuals. Yet there are some women, especially those suffering physical and mental abuse, who have reached the tipping point of no return; and the only thing they can do to preserve their sanity is to get out of that marriage. And ultimately, it is to the Lord they answer to, not you or me. He has called them to peace.



After God opened my eyes to the truth of scripture, I contacted those ladies on the dating site who I had thrown "stones" at and apologized profusely. I was truly grieved that I had been so self-righteous and blind, wounding those precious sisters for whom Christ died.



Now back to the story that I began with. The "stone throwers" had already dropped their rocks and left the scene with a guilty conscience, leaving Jesus alone with the adulterous woman.



"He said to her, 'Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?'"



"She said, 'No one, Lord.'"



"And Jesus said to her, 'Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more'" (John 8:10b-11).



HALLELUJAH�MERCY TRIUMPHS OVER JUDGMENT!!!



Blessings in Christ Jesus,

Paul Janz



(All Scripture quotations are taken from the Holy Bible, New King James Version.)



"The Stone Thrower" Copyright � 2010 by Paul Janz.

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Singer4u

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Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 6 Jun, 2012 10:20 PM

Paul appreciate the verses but please quote them in their entirety as bob pointed out he's right. That changes the meaning and the point at hand.



Before anyone gets mercy they must know and love the truth! Yahushua is the truth and he is going to judge every idle word so how much more our sins especially the willful ones!

(Hebrews 10 vs 26 = new testament)

For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know Him who said, 'Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,' says the Lord. And again, 'The Lord will judge His people.' It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God."



This was written to believers so this is why I am always saying lets guard the commandments.

Because here is a list of thoses who won't be in Yahweh's kingdom:

1 CORINTHIANS 6:9



FORNICATORS

IDOLATERS

HOMOSEXUALS

SODOMITES

THIEVES

COVETOUS PERSONS

DRUNKARDS

REVILERS

GREEDY PERSONS (RAPACIOUS)





REVELATIONS 22:15

DOGS

SORCERERS

SEXUALLY IMMORAL

WHOEVER LOVES & MAKES A LIE





EPHESIANS 5:5

THOSE WHO PRACTICE:



OBSCENITY

FOOLISH TALKING (JESTING)

GREEDINESS

RAILLERY (TO RIDICULE)

ANY UNCLEAN MAN





GALATIANS 5:19-21

THOSE WHO PRACTICE:



WITCHCRAFT

UNCLEANNESS

LEWDNESS

ENMITIES

STRIFE

JEALOUSY

ANGERS

RIVALRIES

DIVISIONS

SECTS

ENVYINGS

DRUNKENNESSES

REVELLINGS





AND THINGS LIKE THESE!



By the way, there is nothing listed here that one can not be forgiven for if truly repented of !!!

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really_54

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Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 6 Jun, 2012 10:53 PM

As usual BobBobbins, you missed something in your stone throwing regarding, "But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy and not sacrifice . . .'" (Matthew 9:13). I deliberately left out the last of that verse because that was not the message Jesus was giving to the Pharisees. The legalistic Pharisees who would tithe the smallest of herbs in the keeping of the law, were guilty of having no heart of mercy. So I am telling you what Jesus told them: "But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy and not sacrifice . . .'" (Matthew 9:13).



You are quick to make accusations and to condemn others without knowing the facts. I have been accused of saying Jesus sinned. I never said Jesus sinned. You guys did. You made the ASSUMPTION that Jesus would have sinned if He had broken the Sabbath--I DID NOT. All I said was Jesus broke the Sabbath. Then you and Singer4u drew out your proverbial swords and said the following:



BobBobbins says, "Jesus never broke the sabbath. If he had done so, he would not have been able to fulfill the law. Your salvation could not have occurred. I am not sure where you get such ridiculous ideas. That is completely absurd and totally false."



My response: Absurd and totally false? . . .Really? "Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said God was His Father" (John 5:18). According to the apostle John, who wrote that scripture under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit . . .Jesus broke the Sabbath.



Singer4u says, "Paul and Goldenfaith both said in their writings on this forum that Yahushua broke Sabbath. That is impossible! You two should know better than that and to say it is total heresy!!! YOU ARE SAYING HE SINNED!"



My response: heresy? . . .really? "Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said God was His Father" (John 5:18). According to the apostle John, who wrote that scripture under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit . . .Jesus broke the Sabbath.



You, BobBobbins, also made ASSUMPTIONS that one of our posters, teach ib, does not obey God's commands. Here is her response to you:

**********************************************************************

"I never said I didn't obey God's commandments. That is something you inferred from my statement that I am not under the law. Singer clearly showed through the verses he posted that I am under grace.



It seems you are looking for reasons to condemn...you have no idea who I am, what I believe, what studying I have done, yet want to tell me where I am wrong."

************************************************************************



So BobBobbins and Singer4u, you have been weighed in the balances and found wanting. Your accusations are unfounded and your interpretations of my article incorrect. Stone throwers all have something in common: They are usually self-righteous, ready to condemn, and can quote the Word of God. They boast in the keeping of the letter of the law while ignoring the weightier matters of justice, mercy and faith. And besides all this, they have one other notable characteristic . . . they are hypocrites. Matthew 23:23-28.

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Singer4u

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Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 6 Jun, 2012 11:19 PM

Paul, you are the hypocrite. You are the one slandering calling us stone throwers, pharisees, and hypocrites. You don't have the power to weigh anyone in the balances paul only Messiah does!~

Also you misrepresented what i said about the Sabbath in my earlier posts cause you didn't put them here in your false accusation. All may look on my earlier post which paul didn't read where I said that:



John 5 vs 18 This is the pharisees opinion that Messiah broke Sabbath by healing people and telling them that it's not wrong to do good on the Sabbath and he said arise and walk-He didn't engage in commerce or labor physically. The pharisees were trying to put the Lord of the Sabbath on their definition of keeping it. The Holy Spirit is merely saying here what the pharisees were thinking in retrospect! Also I declared that Yahushua spoke that Yahweh (the sacred name not to be uttered according to the pharisees) was his father! This is why they wanted to murder him!



You say you didn't say he broke Sabbath? Oh yes you did! I will copy and paste what you said to others on my next post!



Paul don't try to bear false witness by piecing out and taking away what I said in overall context and in entirety! You are trying to make yourself look innocent. People can read my earlier posts as proof.

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Singer4u

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Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 6 Jun, 2012 11:29 PM

really 54







Posted : Posted : 1 Jun, 2012 10:32 PM



__________________________________________________

Here paul you thank Goldenfaith and state below, " I noticed he overlooked sins often and even broke the Sabbath as an example and many no no's to the pharisee world"

________________________________________________







Thank you GoldenFaith for taking the time to share your thoughts. I have gleaned a couple of nuggets from your article to share with the readers . . .







"Its good brothers and sisters to apply scripture with compassion what Jesus did, and I noticed he overlooked sins often and even broke the Sabbath as an example and many no no's to the Pharisee world."







"really...its true...only by his grace we can stay in the narrow path...and blameless"







Blessings,



Paul



Sorry paul, Yahshua didn't break the Sabbath and only a pharisee would say he did just like inJohn 5 vs 18.



You told a lie even if you forgot and didn't mean to. Here it is and you even called it a nugget to glean!

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Singer4u

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Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 6 Jun, 2012 11:37 PM

You also said that bob and men want to appear as learned men. LIe!

We stated many times that we only want Yahweh's commandments obeyed to bring Yahushua the Messiah and the master teacher and learned man glory!

We are learned man paul. We both are recognized in our assemblies as capable ministers and learned men and are appointed leaders. There is no vain glory or honor to be obtained when we are mere servants of Yahweh and only want all glory to go to yahushua the Messiah where it is deserved to go. Also Messiah chose and made us capable ministers and learned men. What Yahweh calls cleansed don't say otherwise!

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Singer4u

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Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 6 Jun, 2012 11:43 PM

Also paul you said my critique of your stone thrower teaching was false?

I said in it you didn't address marriage between 2 believers and you didn't include in it all that Yahushua taught on divorce and remarriage.

All here can go back and read it as well as my critiques! Show me where you address divorce between a man and woman who are both believers in it?????

Paul we are all waiting!!!!!!!!

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really_54

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Posted : 7 Jun, 2012 01:19 AM

Singer4u, I have been FALSELY accused by you implying that I said Jesus sinned. I never said Jesus sinned. YOU DID! You made the ASSUMPTION that Jesus would have sinned if He had broken the Sabbath--I DID NOT. All I said was Jesus broke the Sabbath. Then you drew out your proverbial sword and said the following:



Singer4u says, "Paul and Goldenfaith both said in their writings on this forum that Yahushua broke Sabbath. That is impossible! You two should know better than that and to say it is total heresy!!! YOU ARE SAYING HE SINNED!"



My response: heresy? . . .really? "Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said God was His Father" (John 5:18). According to the apostle John, who wrote that scripture under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit . . .Jesus broke the Sabbath.



It is very clear in the Word of God that Jesus broke the Sabbath. It also says in the Word of God that Jesus never sinned. I have no problem with both scriptures. It is you, Singer4u, who has exalted himself above the Word of God to add your own interpretation to John 5:18. You and BobBobbins both claim that Jesus could not have broken the Sabbath. Since when does your word override God's Word? You claim to be defenders of the Word, yet you are woefully ignorant of it.



And now in regards to Singer4u and BobBobbins adamant stand on the reasons for divorce. Both of you have ignored Jesus' Word spoken in Matthew 19:11:



"But He said to them, 'All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given'"



You both ignore Jesus Word spoken in Matthew 19:11 and quote only Matthew 19:9. Hypocrites! Is Jesus Word spoken here any less anointed than Matthew 19:9? You blind guides, you strain at a gnat and swallow a camel. Jesus said, ALL CANNOT ACCEPT the saying that fornication is the only reason for divorce, 'but only those to whom it has been given.'"



So you and BobBobbins accept that fornication is the only reason for divorce. Good for you. That's between you and God. Jesus said "ALL CANNOT ACCEPT THIS SAYING." And whether you like it or not, Singer4u and BobBobbins, Jesus makes it clear that He accepts other believers who have views contrary to yours.



So what you doing here?

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Singer4u

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Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 7 Jun, 2012 06:21 AM

Paul, first of all I'm not a blind guide I quote Yahweh's word. Secondly I understand what Yahushua said in Matthew 19 about all cannot accept this saying but to whom it has been given:

Think about this one paul!!!

You have missed this saying that he accepts whatever people believe otherwise= meaning other than for fornication. Not true at all!!!!!!



This all means those who don't want to obey him!!!! To whom it has been given are those who live by every word that proceeds out of his mouth! He never changes he is the same yesterday today and forever the scriptures declare! The kingdom is given to whosoever will and the one who will take his yoke upon them!

By you saying he accepts other views you might as well say he accepts belief in other deities. Impossible!

The word for adultery is hebrew is zemuth and it means idolatry too. To commit fornication/adultery is to worship and idol and there is no way he will accept another view on this!

The whole bible is about not committing Idolatry/adultery!It's about being faithfully married to Yahushua. All scripture testifies of him!

The first commandment is :

!Thou shall have no other gods(idols) before me!

How will you love Yahweh with all your heart, mind,spirit, soul, and body and love your neighbor as yourself committing fornication/adultery? Therefore, there's no way that you are keeping the commandments in any way !!!

Matthew 19 says that divorce is caused by a hardened heart. Toward who? Toward Yahweh first because they don't want to obey his law on one flesh marriage til death and secondly toward the innocent mate who wants to keep Yahweh's law because they won't forgive whatever offence they are hardened at their mate for!!!! When you don't forgive you arent forgiven Yahushua said!



Therefore Yahushua pointed out that all couldn't accept this saying= Yes exactly those that don't want to be his disciples!!!! Cause his disciples said it's better not to marry if this is the case between a man and his wife!



Paul this is basic faith! No willful practicing adulterer/fornicator who is an idol worshipper having other gods or those agreeing with them in their sin is going to be in Yahushua's kingdom! Only those that worship Yahushua is going to be there!!!!!!!!!!

Answer according to all the proof of scripture I provided here on point by point refutation as I do for you or everyone will see your error.

Do I sound like a blind guide straining at a gnat people reading this post? I am a disciple of Yahushua !

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Have you been CONDEMMNED by others as having an "UNBIBLICAL DIVORCE" ?
Posted : 7 Jun, 2012 06:44 AM

Part 3



Problem 3: Your faulty exegesis of Matthew 19 leads to a totally erroneous understanding of the passage.



Jesus here teaches that there is no permission for divorce except for the cause of fornication. His disciples understanding the severity of this law and it's implication conclude then that it might be "good not to marry".



Since we can not lawfully divorce we ought to take marriage VERY seriously. This is the thrust of the text.



Now when Jesus heard the disciples response, he cautions them against adopting such a mentality ( that is - a mentality against marrying) since "all men can not receive that idea". He goes on to explain that there are men (eunuchs for various reasons) that are able to abstain from marriage. Thus Eunuchs would be able to receive this idea but not others.



With the proper understanding of this text, the entirety of your argument is thrown completely out the window. The idea that Jesus is here asserting that there are many reasons for divorce and He accepts them all after he has already said that there is only one reason would make him intellectually schizophrenic. Such an assumption would clearly be blasphemous to the core.



I am sure that you don't wish to put forth such an assumption.



SUMMARY: "But He said to them, 'All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given'" Which saying?? The saying immediately preceding it in the text: " If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry"



If you had chosen to read the posts that have already been written here instead of cutting and pasting your own sarcastic responses day after day, we might not be revisiting this error again a week later.

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Singer4u

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Posted : 7 Jun, 2012 06:46 AM

Now concerning the Sabbath I didn't say Yahushua sinned!

You paul are quoting John 5 vs 18 out of context! I am quoting what the bible scholars say concerning this! Check it out!

I agree with them on this matter.

Of the 10 commandments which are forever! Which Yahushua fulfilled meaning he kept them!!!

The 4th commandment says you shall keep the Sabbath holy.

Yahushua did. You are quoting John 5 vs 18 which if not rightly divided would imply Yahushua didn't keep it. Impossible!

It is heresy to say he broke it or bends rules or many other no no's as I proved by reposting what you told goldenfaith on her post! By saying he bends rules you are saying he doesn't keep them!

I believe you as well as on all this post should read this concerning where He addressed this very thing!

Matthew 5:17-19



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Matt 5:17 (KJV) Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.<4137>



Yahushua tells us to not even THINK he came to destroy the law or prophets. Let alone believe it! If you say that He came and abolished the law, then you are saying He came to destroy. In fact, the dictionary defines the word "Abolish" as "To destroy completely". The meaning of fulfill here is to "obey". For instance, if I told my daughter to do something and she did it, then she has "fulfilled" or obeyed my request. Here is an instance of Yahushua fulfilling something:



Matt 8:16 (KJV) When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with [his] word, and healed all that were sick: 17 (KJV) That it might be fulfilled <4137> which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying, "Himself took our infirmities, and bare [our] sicknesses." (Isa. 53:4)



You see, Yahushua fulfilled or "obeyed" the scripture that was speaking of Him. He also obeyed the law. We should do likewise. In fact, we are told to fulfill the law:



Romans 13:8 - Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.



Therefore, we are also to fulfill the law just as He did.



1 John 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.



Continuing in Matthew 5:



18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.<1096>



Now here is a little trick by the translators. They translate the word fulfill here again even though it does not come from the same Greek word as the "fulfill" above. They try to get us to believe that since Messiah fulfilled the law, that one jot and one tittle has passed from the law (or been taken away). This Greek word is translated "be" 253 times, "come to pass" 82 times and fulfilled 3 times. It is never used in reference to Yahushua fulfilling anything in the law and prophets.



Therefore the meaning of this is that not one iota of the law will pass away until everything comes to pass. Clearly there is more to come. The day will come when men will have no need for the law and prophets because the sinful nature will be no more. Until then, we all have this sinful nature that we must fight and overcome by the power of Yahushua in us. Therefore we still need the law and prophets to help guide us into the path of righteousness. Many say that we need no law now that we have Yahweh's Spirit. But truly Yahweh's words ARE Spirit and are life. (John 6:63) And surely David had Yahweh's Spirit (Psalms 51:11) and yet he still looked to the Law for guidance (e.g. Psalm 19).



19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.



Notice here it says "these" commandments! What are "these" commandments?



The commandments found in the law and prophets!

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