Thread: How We Can Help Men Combat Lust - Without Misplacing Responsibility or Subjecting Others to Shame
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How We Can Help Men Combat Lust - Without Misplacing Responsibility or Subjecting Others to Shame
Posted : 28 Apr, 2020 06:56 PM
I wrote another "scary" article today about lust and modesty. I say "scary" because I'm battling anxiety just thinking about the criticism that could potentially thrown my way by talking about these things.
But I'm hugely passionate about this!
Have any of you heard the outcries when people suggest that modesty isn't the answer to lust?
-- "Surely we shouldn’t disregard people's struggles!"
"Men are already bombarded with temptation 'in the world', so can't their Christian 'sisters' give them reprieve?!"
"Surely we shouldn't disregard people's struggles!"
"What about becoming a 'stumbling block to the weak'? We have a duty to not lead people towards sin!"
How We Can Help Men Combat Lust - Without Misplacing Responsibility or Subjecting Others to Shame
Posted : 7 May, 2020 04:01 AM
Hey I just read your article. While insightful I feel like it misses certain things about Mens lust. I also feel That the article is more slanted in a women's perspective on men's lust. Instead of a close examination as to why. It also seems like it chalked up as poor etiquette training. When lust is more complicated topic.
First of all let agree with you on some things. A women's body isn't inherently a stumbling for sin. Anyone that teaches that is trying to shame women, However the article does not go into a deeper topic about how the body is portrayed. I don't think it is fair be shamed on being sexual attracted to a women who is being sexual attractive. Your clothes can say just as much about than your words and saying I should look past that seems like it deflecting blame.
Another thing I agree with is behavior. How a mans lust is manifested is certainly under his control. He shouldn't treat a women poorly based on the way she dresses, Or make assumptions on her character. Of course I feel the article shuns the way man process sexual desire. Physical examination is one way we process that desire and certain physical attributes exaggerated for attention is when lust ensues. In your article I get the feeling you want the reader to assume a women who dresses provocatively is unintentional. That any sensation of lust is the ends users fault. You even go to your own personal experience taking ownership that the men weren't trying to get you to lust it was merely a byproduct of circumstance. I'll grant some of that is true, But we can't just say that women who dress a certain way aren't trying to attract a certain level of attention and that there isn't garments directed toward that aim. How a person deals with lust is ultimately their responsibility, but saying that people don't try to solicit that reactions is disingenuous.
Since you brought up puberty briefly I think it is best to address it. I don't know with any definitive measure whether women mature faster than men. however If could I go with the assumption that they do. It would suffice to say in terms of sexual experience far out ways men. This head start allows you to get a handle on the topic more quickly. This isn't to say you don't struggle, however you have better coping skills then your male counterpart. Also It seems that advice to attract or deter suitors is more readily accessible. Whether this come from parents, friends, mentors, ETC. From a male perspective this is not the case. We come to this topic a lot slower just based on development. When we want to talk about it. We are immediately ignored or passed along the chain to next. Then when find someone who is at least willing to come to the table. Come to find out they're just a clueless as we are. It is a game of trial and error and the older we get the less trials get to perform and less errors we get to make. As man especially a Christian one it is my responsibility to restrain my own sexual proclivity. Even though I don't know how or why. It also feels like it is only up to me and my will and there Isn't a biblical answer at all.
Overall I feel like the article is well meaning. I do like that fact the you urge people to pray and seek help. I am certain that earnest prayer changes thing. that the holy spirit can move in someones life. Also seeking help both personal and professional can readily deal with lust better. However there are gaps and I just wanted to fill those as best I could.
How We Can Help Men Combat Lust - Without Misplacing Responsibility or Subjecting Others to Shame
Posted : 15 May, 2020 01:29 PM
This will be a strangely worded reply because many of the accurate words are banned.
I honestly don't see anything "scary" at all.... just yet someone else that misses the point entirely... in this case a woman projecting the way the experiences life unto men in the assumption that there are no fundamental differences. This is simply ignorant.
Firstly lust is not just emotional or physical.... it's both. The general rule is its more emotional for woman and more physical for men but it's not cast in stone and there is a lot of drift both horizontally and vertically for both genders. If you attempt to view it as solely one of the two your conclusions will be skewed as seems to be the case here.
Men for the most part are visual creatures with hunting instincts which get activated when anything connected to the deed is touched. For example when a man sees an attractive female jogging his first subconscious instinct is to chase her. When it comes to clothing men ALWAYS judge woman on how they are dressed whether they realize it or not, to believe otherwise is odd wishful thinking.
No one is interested in shaming a woman for having an attractive body, the problem is that unless a man has access to that particular body parading it in front of him only leads negative results. It's a practicality issue not a moral one. Personally speaking, I have no need to see how attractive all the woman around me are, I also have no desire to see all the men around me parade their value in such a manner.
The male-female attraction system is simple:
man sees woman, evaluates her desirability, responds to results
woman increases or lowers her desirability by altering her physical and vocal signals.... clothing is one of these signals
Clothing is not a smart-bomb.... it attracts ALL men EQUALLY. Tight pants and a low top has the SAME effect on ALL men. The only variable here is the drive or satiation of the individual man. So yes she will attract both the right and wrong guy at the same time and will only have herself to blame. Also to paraquote mr chapelle.... if you wear the uniform don't be surprised if people think you do the job.
Lastly let have Paul contradict you
1 Corinthians 7:9
But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.
This obviously via euphemism means that God spoke through Paul saying that some men LITERALLY cannot control themselves completely and the only way for them to have control of themselves is to marry so they can stay satiated.
You seem to be under the misimpression that "the deed" is merely an act in isolation. In fact it's an act that feeds an apatite that happens to generally be stronger in men than in woman. Think of it this way: you have not eaten in days, you have no way to eat, someone waves food around in front of you, you are not allowed to eat that food either, you feel dizzy from hunger, your cognitive capabilities are suffering, etc
The only solution to a very strong lust is satiating the apatite, for this men must marry rather than burn. This is why men that are satiated have no problem with woman dressed provocatively especially if they happen to have a low drive in the first place. Unsatiated men however completely understand why dogs want to hump everything they can find.... also there is the irritating random twitching.
How We Can Help Men Combat Lust - Without Misplacing Responsibility or Subjecting Others to Shame
Posted : 30 May, 2020 03:50 PM
How a man can deal with lust is the same way any Christians can deal with lust ( cry out to God , surrender that weakness to him in prayer and fasting) seek God to purify and sanctify your desires , renew and sanctify the way you see the opposite sex, and seek deliver from any boundage caused by sexual sins and lastly follow the David the psalmist counsel to Psalm 101:3-8 "set no wicked things before your eyes" no filthy magazines or movies songs that promote sexualizing the opposite sex..
All this helped me because i was delivered from a porn addiction ..or sexual sins...and I've been freed and clean from those things for years now. Hallelujah! Glory be to God, and the devil is liar , the son of God is greater than any sin!!
How We Can Help Men Combat Lust - Without Misplacing Responsibility or Subjecting Others to Shame
Posted : 6 Jun, 2020 03:02 AM
If most women get married to most men and put out most of the lust problem will be solved.
Without lust nobody is getting married, because from a logical mindset it is illogical to do things that will cost you a lot of money and make you have to work harder.
How We Can Help Men Combat Lust - Without Misplacing Responsibility or Subjecting Others to Shame
Posted : 6 Jun, 2020 01:48 PM
(Hey Marcouse, if I am missing your argument here, please feel free to jump in and correct me) Marital rape, adultery, and porn use within the context of a marriage happen precisely because there is lust, and what Marcouse is saying, I think, is that without lust, there would be no drive to marry, but I would submit that likewise, if there's no lust, then rape, adultery, and porn would not exist either.
The proviso that Marcouse alludes to to answers why these terrible things happen even in the context of a marriage: there is a mismatch between the sexual needs and desires of the couple in question AND in whether those needs are fulfilled. If the sexual desires or needs of one partner are under-fulfilled, they may seek to fill that gap another way, leading to inappropriate behavior toward their partner directly in the case of marital rape, or going outside the relationship to fill the gap (porn and adultery). This can happen to both men and women.
How We Can Help Men Combat Lust - Without Misplacing Responsibility or Subjecting Others to Shame
Posted : 6 Jun, 2020 03:14 PM
Dictionary definition of lust: "intense sexual desire or appetite." There is the provision for it to be "uncontrolled" and "illicit" in other possible definitions which may set it apart from "sexual desire"; and since it is described in this definition as "intense," let's say that they are separate things for a moment. If either are not satisfied in the course of a marriage, the result is the same: the temptation to give in to sexual sins becomes stronger. It doesn't mean that either men or women have to give in to every whim of their partner's sexual desires. It's just a possible explanation of where the problems and sinful behaviors associated with lust come from.
How We Can Help Men Combat Lust - Without Misplacing Responsibility or Subjecting Others to Shame
Posted : 6 Jun, 2020 07:07 PM
I feel I may have been a bit abrupt in my last response, so I ask your forgiveness for that if I came off too harsh. It wasn't my intention. If I may, I'd like to also have another go at untangling this issue of lust vs. sexual desire because it seems to be more complicated when looking beyond the mere definitions of each. Sexual desire and lust have very similar definitions, as I pointed out in my last post, such that lust can be defined as a more intense form of sexual desire. What leads some, especially us as Christians, to often draw a distinction between the two is the connotation of sinful behavior associated with lust. However, it seems that lustfulness is difficult to distinguish from sexual desire until it manifests as an action that goes against God's will (i.e. using porn, adultery, etc.).
In this way, we may think of lust as an action, and sexual desire as a feeling to distinguish them. If we run with that idea, the waters still get muddied because if one person has a relatively low sexual desire and another has a higher desire, the one with the low desire may think of the higher desire of his or her partner as "lustful," but is it? I would say not necessarily.
If we can call a certain level of sexual desire "normal" for a man or a woman, then we may have a metric to measure a sexual desire that reaches into the "lust" category. Then, if he or she marries someone with a low sexual desire relative to the "normal" level, that person may soon find that they want more sexual activity from their partner than they are willing or able to give. The mismatch in their sexual desires is a source for the problem of lust here. When dissatisfaction turns to frustration, that person may begin to act inappropriately, exhibiting behaviors similar to those with an unusually high sexual desire.
I expect that the ideal circumstances would be that we would add sexual desire to the list of things we want to have equally yoked with our partner in terms of what we each want from one another. However, this may not always be possible. In that case, communication is probably the best hedge against one partner engaging in lustful behavior, and for both to work in cooperation to make sure both partners' needs are met without resorting to sinful behavior.
How We Can Help Men Combat Lust - Without Misplacing Responsibility or Subjecting Others to Shame
Posted : 25 Jun, 2020 10:35 AM
I think there’s some confusion about modesty that concerns biblical nakedness. I’m using the term nakedness from a biblical point of view, not necessarily or always meaning total nakedness.
I’ll probably need to provide more detail later but I’ll try to be as succinct here as I can.
There’s a problem of cultural female “nakedness” that’s becoming more and more acceptable and it keeps evolving as the years go by.
Men love public exposure of female nakedness. Men have made that abundantly clear in various ways. To a lot of men, exposed female skin to lust after is a good reason to get out—and women willingly comply!
Generally men don’t like too much male nakedness, that’s one reason, for example, male news anchors dress conservatively from the neck down, no skin exposed. But seated next to the fully covered male anchor is a female anchor usually exposing her chest and as much skin a short cut tight fitting dress allows!!
Another example, most men attending church dress conservatively as well but they seem to like showing off >>their<< female partner’s curves and as much of her skin as possible. Notice I pointed out >>their<< because too many men see their women in a possessive sense, as a trophy to show off!! AND their women willingly comply.
I once asked my pastor what people would think if I made my point by coming to church showing off just as much skin that the women expose and what if I wore tight fitting paints that clearly expose the length and width of my butt crack just like some women coming to church do!!
But you know, there was a time when BOTH men and women respected God enough to sufficiently cover up. Yep, that’s right!! Both men and women pretty much covered the entire body.
But about the early part of the 19th century, men wanted to see more female skin to lust after and women, just as innovative, just happily went along. It was nice for some of these women, because the trade off was more attention even if it amounted to veiled lust.
So the evolution of the skirt began to inch upward the years following and the blouse inched downward.
If anyone can’t define sensual dress or doubts it exits, maybe Vogue magazine and others engulfed in the lucrative clothing designer industry can help educate.
In case no one has noticed, sex sells!!
Worse yet, display of the near naked female body diminishes and degrades women and exposes men for the perverts they are.
