Something new and profound I learned on a very recent experience was that:
Perfection can only be achieved in unism. Since we are the bride for Christ both ladies and man, we need one another's help to achieve the perfection that we're striving for. We surely wanna be presented before our husband without any spot or blemish hey? Then we need the next person to point out our spots and blemishes to work on while still in this kingdom, without feeling judged or false found but rather knowing the intentions are good, so one/both makes it to the finishing line.
This then makes the 'leader/helper companion' both of a strength and vulnerable position for both parties. The leading part needs to be vigilant enough to see beyond the physical beauty of his partner, and note the faults bringing them to the helpers attention. The helper needs to seek help from God in how to go about rectifying the noted faults/errors, so both parties are presented as one bride before God without blemishes, ready to meet the husband (Jesus)
The question is: Are we comfortable enough to bring our neckedness to our partners?
In Eden God meant Adam and Eve to be nacked. They implemented clothing through leaves after they sinned and having their eyes opened so they see that they were necked and ashamed. This was not something God created when he placed them in the garden.
Can we really bring our neckedness in relationships without shame when we seek to please and charm our partners so much? I'm not referring to physical neckedness dear one, i'm referring to our flops and errors that made us who we are today.
Since seeking love and acceptance so much in dating sites, how soon will it take us to put our neckedness on the table without shame or fear. Reflecting what God made in Eden when He placed those two necked without shame.
I miss you so much darling
Just thought I'll post this for you so we interact on it.
Can I also talk, sissygirl? Seems you directed the question much more to someone. In case I or any other person is welcome, let's know so that I can hop in with my contribution. :glow:
I may not dwell too much on scriptural quotations or at all but I will try to explain myself plainly.
When God made man, Gen 5:1 gives us the idea that He made him perfectly. Man was devoid of nothing and lacked setback - spirit, soul and body.
God to Gen 2:17 where the Almighty warned man that he should not eat of the fruit forbidden, He clearly said it into his hearing that he would die if he defied the instruction.
'Die' there is the root cause of imperfection, which thankfully, grace, in Christ, has brought us back into.
Mind you, we are still a process in the making and have not come unto perfection, and I doubt that we will come unto perfection in this age even though it's our responsibility to attain or work towards perfection.
Now that cleared, must we come naked into relationship? YES. Long ago, I used to think I was a good Christian, but when I started meeting with people I discovered that I still had flaws and errors to work on, which I am still doing right now.
Whether we come open or not, our nature will surely shoot out because it is like a garment; which is one of the reason why I hate this statement "I am looking for Mr Right!" when it is obvious that no one is Right at all.
If we enter into a relationship, with whomever it is - be it friend or spouse, we must come open with our composition of the perfect side and the weak side of our being. That way, we get laid out before the other and put work in place to get the perfect part of us more fortified and the weak part of us getting perfect.
I may not dwell too much on scriptural quotations or at all but I will try to explain myself plainly.
When God made man, Gen 5:1 gives us the idea that He made him perfectly. Man was devoid of nothing and lacked setback - spirit, soul and body.
God to Gen 2:17 where the Almighty warned man that he should not eat of the fruit forbidden, He clearly said it into his hearing that he would die if he defied the instruction.
'Die' there is the root cause of imperfection, which thankfully, grace, in Christ, has brought us back into.
Mind you, we are still a process in the making and have not come unto perfection, and I doubt that we will come unto perfection in this age even though it's our responsibility to attain or work towards perfection.
Now that cleared, must we come naked into relationship? YES. Long ago, I used to think I was a good Christian, but when I started meeting with people I discovered that I still had flaws and errors to work on, which I am still doing right now.
Whether we come open or not, our nature will surely shoot out because it is like a garment; which is one of the reason why I hate this statement "I am looking for Mr Right!" when it is obvious that no one is Right at all.
If we enter into a relationship, with whomever it is - be it friend or spouse, we must come open with our composition of the perfect side and the weak side of our being. That way, we get laid out before the other and put work in place to get the perfect part of us more fortified and the weak part of us getting perfect.
Thank you dear one for sharing your thought on this. I don't know weither i'm inline with you or i'm missing what you shared. I'm open for correction if I misunderstood you. I can relate with you however when saying "I hate this statement.... I'm looking for Mr right" this statement compromises people repentance when Jesus said that He came to save sinners when asked why was He spending too much of His time with sinners? This is what inspired this post.
And yes Adam was a perfect man on his own, lacking nothing until Eve come and opened a window for sin to have access. However God knew weigh in advance that man was gonna fall short of His glory. He was not surprised at what happened in Eden, hense He created both the leading and the helping part. He was looking at the bigger picture of life not just the two individuals He created in Eden.
This is why the "leaving and cleaving" was spoken off in advance. What was Adam referring to when saying "Therefore a man shall leave his mother and father, and shall cleave to his wife" Where did Adam get a revelation of 'father and mother' if life only revolved around the two of them?
Maybe I should give a little clarity for my post. I have been asked out several times by guys,.... guys of a higher standard if I should massure them with their status of life. Instead of taking advantage of their lifestyle and rub shoulders with them anyway when I felt an empty void, so I get to live a better life than my current one. I couldn't cheat myself like that even when pressured by friends. I couldn't put in words when asked what was the problem. That alone labled me at fault since I didn't even know what is it that they were lacking, that I wasn't gonna compromise pursuing a relationship without. I was referred to as crazy and ungrateful cause I was sing praises daily of how beautiful am I. Think any lady would love being told that often by her partner.
But what purpose did that serve?
What input did it contribute with in a relationships, other than having me feeling good that my looks are appreciated?
Was I even pursued as desired to? No I was not cause people were content with the little they saw in the surface, yet missing me altogether.
What was there for me/us to work on getting done right if all that was seen was beauty?
Was there a room for repentance?
Were we gonna see a need of working together as a team in getting ready to meet the groom since both parties are Christ's bride?
Does that give an idea of where i'm coming from now?
It will take time and attention for one to see beyond the surface, seeking to know the depth of the next part. Seeking to know what may she/he be reacting to when behaving in a certain way. And seeking to understand what makes that person who she/he is today, keeping in mind ofcoz that we're products at work. I know and agree with you that 'perfection' cannot be fully achieved in this current life, though the bible says that "Two are better than one" so more can be achieved when two or more are working as a team. That we learn from God in Genesis1. He kept saying "Let us..." when creating, He was surely in agreement with someone,.... (He's trinity)
I would like to say I was the one that got your point wrong, and I think I have a clue of what you were trying to pass across, but you can still correct or explain further, but I will try to put up my opinion.
From the fourth paragraph, You made mention of standards, and I will say standard is relative. It depends on how we see it or perceive it to be. However, as Christians, the standard is the Word of God. These days, most of us that call ourselves Christians relate with our Maker superficially, hence we miss out of His standard for us. We have the generic standard, which is what every believer must follow (the written Word of God) and the specific standard (which is borne out of the Holy Scriptures), which comes out of our relationship with God. Sometimes, it is funny that the definition of life is embedded and hidden in God Himself, no wonder Jesus Christ said what He said in John 10:10 (He came to give LIFE no one can ever give).
To your experience, I can say you made a good decision. Life in its totality, whether career or marriage or whatever, is not based on ENJOYMENT but FULFILLMENT, hence your choice of decision. Many of us have chosen or decided to settle on the former rather than the latter, thinking we can get to the fulfilment stage later in our journey. One thing I always tell myself this: Everything that is fulfilling is enjoyable but not everything that is enjoyable is fulfilling.
Why do we have broken relationships, divorces, strained friendships or a dilapidated social strata in today's world? We do things superficially. Unfortunately, this idea has crept into the body of Christ these days. Thank God for the scriptures, it is the code of human conduct, the constitution of human living all the time, but we have had it relegated ever since.
I will solely say that you have nothing wrong with the path you have chosen, and God never neglects or leaves behind His people, no matter how discouraging it may seem. I believe a perfect walk with God sets on our path those who see things the way we see things, have/nurture the same standards like we do; remember that deep calleth unto the deep as stated in Psalms 42.
I hope to learn more from this and also expound more as my understanding grows.
Wow, Your depth of reasoning...! What i'm gonna ask you to do is: Give explanation please of what you mean when referring to 'superficiality' in how we relate with God or even those we're in relationships with?
"On your forth paragraph you made mention of the word (standard)" Yes I did dear suppose I should have been more specific. It is only now I realized that the word 'standard' is a broad word that can mean different things, depending on the sentence or subject discussed. When saying 'standard' I referred to 'class/status of wealth'
Its interesting how you referred the word 'standard', you associated the word with what God expects of us, which takes us back to the question of the 'leading and helping companionship with both parties being at their strength and vulnerable potion. This is where the challenge of nakedness takes place. I refer to it as 'challenge' cause now the tables are turning as this may be a little ironic. When searching for love and acceptance, the least you'd want is having the next part knowing your worst flops. This is on both genders. We seek to impress so we can score points and reflecting a certain picture that is gonna make our efforts and time invested worth. It takes a real mature man and woman to take off the garment of impressing and bringing ones nakedness in the forefront... Which gives purpose to that relationship.
This may be quite risky fore the outcome may not produce the expected results. It may take two sober minded individuals, who understands better what God really intended when ordaining 'man' the leader and 'woman' the helper. How can a woman help 'Mr right' since he's right anyway.... Same goes with the leader, what gives you purpose if/when all you see and content with is only the physical charm? Now both parties are compromised of their gender roles, is it even worth pursuing a relationship? What is there to strive to achieve as a team if both parties only showed their best sides instead of embracing and acknowledging that both are two imperfect beings who need each other for the leading and helping so both achieve one desired goal, reflecting as Christ's bride ready for the wedding... That is He's return.
Well said on the following, "Fulfillment is enjoyable but not everything enjoyable is fulfilling" I learned something on that.
When I meant 'superficial relationship' with God, I meant relating with God based on our terms and conditions. For example, I read a testimony of a brother who had been praying for a well-paying job and when God answered his prayer, the All-Knowing God gave him a security job. Disappointed? Yes. I will be too if I were him. This same All-Knowing Father gave him a 'disappointment' but He used that 'disappointment' to get his dream job for him; see God in action in His infinite wisdom and power.
Let us take David for example; God called him a man after His heart. I pondered on this many years back in one of my self-studies back then and I asked what it meant to be a man after God's heart. I got an answer from myself and one of the elders of faith in my country. Firstly, for God to say '... a man after my heart' then there must be a man 'after His breast'. That is where my superficial relationship is coming from. You will agree with me that breast produces milk (substance that can be seen) while the heart produces something unseen. Between the seen and the unseen which is better? That is one example. Second case is when God told Moses His name was 'I AM'. According to one of the elders of faith in my country, he said "when God gives you what you want, He is I AM; when He doesn't give you what you want, He is still the same I AM. When it looks like you are on top of the world, God is still I AM. When it seems like the world is crashing on you, He is still the same I AM."
Now ask me, how many of us relate with God based on seeking after His heart and not after His breast? That is why we tend to put on garment of insincerity and self-righteousness upon ourselves whenever we enter His presence or ask for something from Him. How will a human being that is not sincere before God or acting self-righteously before Him now come with his nakedness in a relationship to a fellow man?
Sometimes, we tend to be smart when we approach God. "Dear God, I want you to give me a good man/woman to marry" but have we ever paused to ask if we have allowed God to make us good ourselves? Humanity is funny, self-centred and can be complicated sometimes, but who can analyse it? Thank God for being merciful and kind towards us.
Now ask me who are the ones that can come naked in a relationship? They are the ones who have gone through discipling like disciples of Christ, have been trained through the jungles like Joseph, Abraham, Moses, Aaron, David, Jephtah, Job and the heroes of faith. They are the ones who look unto Jesus (Heb 12:2), subject their total being and expose their weaknesses and mistakes to God (Heb 12). Our way of relationship with God will definitely affect our way of relationship with our fellow man.
Do we need to impress others? NO. Do we need to put on perfectionism to our beloved spouses? Absolutely No, because we are none. No human being is perfect, but thrive towards perfection when we come together in relationship. Let me give you a hint; human being are selfish. People may want to deny that, but that is the truth.
About standards, should wealth/class be a standard in the first place? I will rather choose the blessings of God than choosing wealth. Why? "It is the blessings of God that maketh rich and addeth no sorrow to it", says the Holy Scriptures. Fortunately, we are blessed in Christ already (Eph 1:3), only that we should be praying for the blessings to speak in us and through us.
I first wanna acknowledge the level of God's wisdom laid in you and the sense of depth in your reasoning, such I appreciate fore one takes something with as lesson to apply in future.
Thank you so much for the extra mile you traveled in explaining this as I asked you to. However your explanation convicted me big time which is what I was hoping for. There's now something to present before the very Christ who came to save sinners, there's a list of multiple issues that aroused through your explanation that I need to repent from practicing. Please don't feel bad that you've got me feeling guilty, it's less about you but rather more about me and my weaknesses. Its amazing that everything said keeps reflecting the 'theme' of this conversation, 'perfection being achieved in unism'
Uniting right now trough exchanging of thoughts and how we understand this subject has revealed weaknesses I need to work on. The first one to repent from is: Complaining about inconveniences experienced ever since I was moved from my previous work place to the recent one. I don't know how many times has Teach told me that I was part of God's plan, I should stop stressing.
The second one is: Being selfish to God first let alone those who are around me. It's a whole lot of list of flops to repent from. I'm really glad we're having this conversation, it's even better than I anticipated through your contributions... Thank you so much dear one!!
Referring to David... I too had and still have moments were I ponder on his relationship with God. These two had a 'heart to heart' relationship since God searches through our hearts. Who we are flows out of our hearts and mind which determines our motives. There's so much to learn about David, we learn from him that a 'good leader' submits so he can be entrusted with followers to submit to him. Submitting is one story... Altars submitted to is another. But I won't dwell too much on this, or i'll deviate altogether from the main subject.
This is where vulnerability takes places on both parties. I personally think (doesn't mean i'm right) it would have been harder for guys to submit to God without learning from helpers (weman)
How can a leaders submit to another leader without conflict? Guys are ordained leaders from birth, can guys easily submit to another husband (Christ) without having an example from a helper?
This means that both parties must muster their gender roles since working as a team to present themselves as a spotless bride before the coming husband. If/when the lady submits to her husband, she must be very cautious fore her earthly leader learns from her how to go about submitting to God. Same goes with the leader,..... Who is his source as he'll be giving instructions to the follower (woman)? From which altars does he get those instructions?
Its amazing how easy it was fore the king to demote queen Vashti. There's more to search about that passage. It begins with the question of communication. How do you lead without communicating especially when knowing that being a leader yourself as a man, may be harder to submit under another mans leadership. You need the very woman that you're not communicating with, is that how to go about pursuing a successful relationship?
The 'helper companion' is meant to bring balance in our lives. I think. As the 'two' have agreed that they are a combination of 'imperfect' beings, this is where making up takes place. The helping part finds a place to help the other in balancing what is lacking. This is where my above question to John takes place. "How do you influence without changing or even trying to change the next person?"
You have surely been a blessing Amstel more than you can ever know. I appreciate you taking time writing back when you could be having other things to do.
Thanks dear sister. May God Almighty continue to enrich us with His wisdom and make us grow daily in grace through His Son, Jesus Christ (Amen).
As usual, I will raise issues based on the paragraphs, as you have structured them in your previous response.
First paragraph: No one has ever been a perfect Christian, as we all work towards attaining perfection. Even when I write, I try as much to read through again and put myself in a check, because there are some parts I also need to work on in my own personal life. Same also applies to everybody that is a Christian.
Second paragraph: What you expressed there is applicable to most of us. A good question to ask is "how do we defeat complaining about inconveniencies?"
The best way is to reflect and remember the goodness of God in times past; reflecting on His faithfulness. If we cannot find anything He has done, which I will is impossible, then we think about the salvation of our soul. We are saved and we have the Spirit of God dwelling in us; this means that joy unspeakable which doesn't come because of what we have or what we don't, peace, and love is resident in our heart. What worth more in life than being in a loving relationship with the Awesome God?
Those are the evidences I present before myself when I feel or sense that things are going the way I have thought of. Mind you, if I cannot see what He has in stock for me, at least, I can see what He has done for me in times past. This puts the devil to shame when he tries to overwhelm us with the worries of life.
3rd paragraph: My der, being selfish is one of the nature of humanity. Sad, but that is the truth. We always want the focus, attention and gaze to be on us.
Some years back, a preacher was preaching on the radio and asked a question "Between man and God, who is serving whom??. He answered that God has been serving humanity more than humanity has been serving Him and I agreed to Him. No amount of service to God we make can match the service God has been giving to us. The greatest of them all is found in John 3:16. How do we address the issue of selfishness? We should ask for the outpouring of His love in our hearts the more. When love floods our heart, selfishness will never find a stand in our life.
5th and 6th paragraph: When we love God wholeheartedly, we will submit to Him.
When it comes to marriage, there is a mystery that is behind that institution that many of us have not been able to unravel.
Man is the head of the home, but I will ask you, can the head survive with the neck? If man is the head, then the wife is the neck. Submission from the man is even higher than the woman. Ephesians 4 from verse 21 downwards will show this to you. Truly wives are meant to submit but what brings about wholesome submission? LOVE.
Husbands are meant to love their wives/spouses. There are time when there will be strain in their relationship, but the man is not meant to stop loving the woman. Now, bring into the picture a man and woman that both love the Lord with their hearts, do you think the wife will have problem with submission to the man or the man will have problem in loving the woman? I will say NO! Even though they are different gender, but they meant to a reflection of each other. That is why we call it RELATIONSHIP. You relate with each other in the same ship. If you do not relate with each other well, there is a high chance that the ship will sink or wreck and that is dangerous to the life of both. When both submit to the Lord, they will both find it easy to submit to each other.
Can guys submit to Christ without having an example from an helper (woman)? I don't understand that question very well, maybe you expatiate on it the more.
Are guys leaders naturally from birth? NO!!! Leadership is responsibility and rebellion. What do we have in the world today? Rebellion! Everybody wants to be the law to himself/herself today and do and act as they want without submitting to the owner of life, the Almighty God Himself.
For the remaining part of your response, I will say that we are imperfect beings, and the other being helps us to see our imperfection and makes us work towards perfecting that imperfection. Relationship helps us to see ourselves more better in a 2-dimensional way rather than 1-dimension and that is what brings about balance in our life.
Battling with cold right now, but I expect to continue later. Have a blessed and a wonderful day.
