Thread: Do we really have freedom and if not what changes would have to be made to make us free
Admin
Do we really have freedom and if not what changes would have to be made to make us free
Posted : 28 Mar, 2011 11:01 PM
If you compare us to the rest of the world, we have a HUGE amount of freedom. We dont have to cover our faces/bodies each time we step outside. We can say or do as we want and all that jazz.
Yet, becase csome of our liberties have been stripped from us, we feel as if we are losing freedom. Which is accurate also. We are slowly having our freedom/rights taken from us.
Do we really have freedom and if not what changes would have to be made to make us free
Posted : 16 May, 2011 10:06 AM
People would need to stop being jerks. If no one victimized other people, there would be no need for protection. When people need protection, they find that grouping up is a way to survive.(hunter/gathers, for example) Groups involve a common belief system that is accepted. The larger the group, the more difficult it becomes to meet all of the member's needs. People feel left out, rules are made to promote equality, you have to votes to see what the mentality of the group is, politics are born... ruthless cycle. If you are able to live with no fear from being victimized, everyone could find their true nature, what God has really imprinted us with, our real personalities. But the need for acceptance and fear of being singled out limits us. Even many christians suffer from this. Sad really.
Do we really have freedom and if not what changes would have to be made to make us free
Posted : 13 Aug, 2011 06:28 AM
Hi! My name is Drikus and I'm from South Africa. I grew up during the old so-called "apartheid regime" and scored nothing by being white. We had no choice, but had to do a 2 year military period of which a large number had to go into combat zones during the Angolan war. Due to a genetic condition I was almost forced out of the army, but decided to force my way into it and ended up in an office working as a switchboard operator. My dad was a school teacher, but also a Major in the army's part time forces so I thought it my duty to give my bit for the fight against Communism and the threat of Cuban invasion of our country.
At the end of my two years' of military duty the government to withdraw our troops from the South West African border with Angola and I though to myself that this war was for some other reason... In the end I came to knowledge of how dirty politics are working in order to benefit the upper eschelons of our corrupt society.
When the Twin Towers imploded I was in the UK, and my first reaction was to nuke those who were responsible because I have worked in the USA and have dear friends over there. Slowly but surely as I have gone through the footage, and the conflicting messages things didn't make sense to me at all. I'm not a pilot, but do take interest in aviation and I realised that two and two doesn't add up to four anymore...
Like over here, they have mass-hypnotised my beloved American friends / brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus to believe the lie. I therefore agree with you that the politicians are bringing a divide amongst people in order to control them. The Word of God says that it will be like this in these last days and if we don't have an enemy to defend ourselves from, the politicians will produce such an enemy, even if it is by delusion because they want to keep us from thinking for ourselves.
Be blessed my friend and I'm thinking of all my American friends being thrown into a war which they didn't choose to get involved in. De ja vu, Lusitania and Pearl Harbour. They have done it to us with the Red Danger of "communism", they have done it to the British with the Anglo-Boer War, they have done it with the American war of independence and so they will do it in the Arabic world as we see it happen on our television sets as we speak. It is horrific and all they want to achieve is their goals, no matter how many lives it take.
Praise the Lord Jesus, He is coming again and then we will have true freedom in Him and don't have to be the slaves of those who willingly work with the plans of antichrist anymore.
Do we really have freedom and if not what changes would have to be made to make us free
Posted : 14 Aug, 2011 02:30 PM
This is quite an interesting subject to discuss. The simple answer is, how do you measure freedom? Is it measured by comparing our level of "freedom" with that of other countries', or is it measured by what we once had and what we have now?
I think we have had great freedoms in this country, and that we are still more free (in some ways) than most other countries. Yet, I think that there have been dramatic abuses of freedoms and some of them have been frightening. Others have been capitalized on by the government while we have gradually been losing a lot more of our freedoms that we have always had. Specifically, the freedom to make poor choices has been left largely intact, yet there are fewer and fewer freedoms of speech (not being allowed to pray at ceremonies, etc). I was once posed an interesting question in one of my classes: If the Constitution (and its amendments, most importantly) were to be dismantled and you could only keep a few of the rights it establishes, which ones would you keep (in order of importance). This is a very thought-provoking question, and the class erupted in frantic scribblings on paper to categorize the rights and begin narrowing down the most important rights... yet the simple truth is that if ANY of the rights in the Bill of Rights were to be removed, in essence they would all be done away with. Much like a house's foundation with a few big blocks, if any are removed the house is drastically unstable and will collapse shortly.
Since the time governments began, they have always vied for more power. Not that power is inherently wrong, or that government control always ends up causing harm, but what ends up happening is that people forget that governments are made up of PEOPLE, often people who are only good at getting elected and little else (so they keep getting re-elected) and the workers can tend to be less than frugal with money, since hey, it's not MY money I'm spending here...
Governments always want to expand, whereas if they expand too far then we get an oppressive society or communism (which is oppressive). Government expansion includes economics, but also in citizens' rights. Something bad happens in the economy, the government steps in and saves the day... by buying out most automobile industry in the USA. That isn't freedom anymore; if the government pays your checks, the government tells you what to do (and that isn't very free, is it?) Government workers aren't all bad, obviously. I doubt anyone tries to make poor decisions, but they happen all too often anyway... usually because the government likes to promote job security for its workers (which is fine) but this ends up being a constant expansion of employees who rarely get fired and end up running your life with little concern for competence (if I can't be punished for not working well/hard, why try?).
So, the trend is for governments to capitalize on chaos. Never let a good crisis go to waste--always step in and make yourself look good, expand, get a little more power. This is certainly not just the USA, this is a humanity thing. I'm just focusing on the US because I happen to live here in this still very great, wonderful, and (somewhat) free country while pointing out what governments do and where we have been heading.
If someone uses a gun to kill people in a tragic criminal action, the public cries out for deliverance. Why are guns allowed? How dare they have that freedom... but wait, guns are what the people use as tools to protect their freedoms. That's one of our pivotal rights, to guarantee our own protection from the government (and others, like the criminals who misuse and abuse that freedom). So the government steps in, slaps down new laws, and gets more control... without fixing the problem. Law breakers break the law; it's what they do. Gun laws don't keep bad people from owning guns, just the good ones who follow the laws. If more people had guns, in fact, there would be fewer shootings because who would knowingly attempt a shooting when there are several armed ordinary people who would kill him before he could carry out his plan? By the way, that's what happens in Israel: there used to be shootings, until it was realized that since Israeli citizens (who all spend time in the military) often carry weapons, it was very difficult to use guns in small operations against crowds. All that to say, the government "rescue" of new laws or bailing out companies doesn't increase freedom or protection, it only strangles it more while putting a "there, fixed!" sticker on the issue.
I must note that George Washington's Farewell Address is an incredible read, and in it he pleads with the American people to sacredly uphold the Constitution, because of the freedoms it guarantees as long as it is honored. It is indeed quite long, and the language of the time is occasionally obscure and you may find yourself having to reread sentences to understand them. BUT, I too plead with the reader of my words right here and now to take the time to READ GEORGE WASHINGTON'S FAREWELL ADDRESS. It's very easy to find via google search, and it is full of the spirit of freedom by which this great country came to be formed. If you take the time to read his words, you may well notice that he spoke of many things that are indeed taking place today through the years of gradual decline from founding principles.
---
Now, GentleGuy.
I was intrigued by reading your post, and I wanted to say I respect your opinions and viewpoint, particularly because you have an outsider's perspective on the US. As I mentioned above, governments (all over the world) capitalize on chaos and expand dramatically in times of crisis. It might look different, but it does happen: an obvious example is Hitler's rise in Germany by seizing the country's economic crisis situation and turning it into a way to build a new government for evil intent. Manipulation of people's emotions is very easy in crisis situations, and many turn to desperate or drastic measures (such as the downtrodden German people empowering Hitler). I remind you at this time that not all Germans were Nazis, but because the Nazis gained political control in crisis, they were hard to dethrone.
The way that plays out in America is a bit more subtle, but there has been a general trend of governmental expansionism into every sphere of life, through presidents and administrations of both political parties; it's a natural government thing to do. In regard to your reference of many events where the government manipulated the people, I would have to disagree on a few of them.
The Lusitania incident I think was not a governmental excuse for entering war; there were many factors and that was one of them. I won't go into the details on that one, however.
The "Red Scare" was indeed a time of great suspicion in our country, yet it was fully legitimate and in fact McCarthy's estimates of communist influence in government were dead wrong: he UNDERestimated their presence and influence. There were communist spies in many levels of government and intelligence, notably in the Dept of Agriculture and many aides and such. Secret projects, scientific establishments, etc were all targeted by communist forces to gain technology and information in order to ultimately topple American society. Given all of that, I think it was a credible threat and perhaps the government underacted because (imagine that) the communists in governmental positions wanted to remain secure.
Pearl Harbor is quite the subject, but there are many conspiracy theories. Ultimately, it happened because the Japanese were played by the Russians into expansion into the Pacific realm to harvest resources (the two options were attack Russia or attack the US). Since the US was more distant, the Japanese miscalculated our military and were also moved by suggestion to attack us by the Russian intelligence propaganda machine. Because we were attacked, we entered the war in the Pacific and Germany declared war on us immediately after we declared war on Japan (because they were of course allies). The US did not declare war on Germany until after they declared war on us though, so technically we could have avoided Europe altogether if Germany hadn't politically thrown the first punch. They did that because they thought we were not ready and would only gain strength over time to fight them later, once they had a chance to conquer Europe... Hitler miscalculated on that one because we were in fact strong enough when Pearl Harbor happened. It was not a governmental manipulation, though it was convenient because as I understand it, the president was almost (but not really) hoping for an excuse to help our allies over in Europe.
And finally, 9/11. The government did not "allow" it to happen, nor did they use it as an excuse to invade Afghanistan. Afghanistan is notoriously hard to control, in addition to not having really any resources people would want (other than opium, which is hardcore illegal in the US because of the drugs made from it). True, the FBI could have potentially put the pieces together to thwart the 9/11 plot if a few circumstances had been different: the law enforcement and intelligence halves of the Bureau were not allowed to communicate with each other properly, so while they each had half of the puzzle they were not allowed to even tell the other half that they had the other half. Also, the director of the time seemed to have a distaste for technology and as such the Bureau's technology (computer and information systems) was woefully obsolete, drastically handicapping their efforts to unravel a complex, multi-faceted plan involving many players from an unexpected threat source. The government did not plan 9/11, nor did it capitalize on it for much except perhaps making flying miserable for everyone with regulations that don't actually protect much of anything.
GentleGuy, you were right about some things, but every issue and situation is so incredibly intricate and complex that it is nearly impossible to say that the government manipulated the people in this way or that way because of the many facts that must be waded through. Government things are not linear; A does not cause B. A, B, C, D, etc might all contribute to something, but there are multiplicities of factors pulling every direction.
In the end, this world is depressing because of the selfish ambitions of people and the lies they spin to get what they want, or perhaps of just poor choices by people to give up their freedoms.
A final paraphrase of Ben Franklin, if I may: Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.
God is in control, ultimately. To get caught up in the world and its depressing state is not where God wants our hearts: we must set our thoughts on things above, get our perspective clear, and trust in the God who redeems us from our sin and raises us up in new life for eternity in him.
