Why is it that (mostly conservative) christians subdue the bible to science by trying to proof the bible's "truth" according to scientific standards?
There is goin ta be a conversion between Science an Biblical "Truths" meshing together...as a One Conciousness of mind, body an spirit...I dont know why I believe this...jus do an always have. We have some in Science tryin ta Dis-Prove the Truth an then some workin hard ta Prove the Truth..GOD....I've not found any one of Science that can Dis-Prove GOD...I dont know if this makes any sence...jus came out...xo
What I mean is that there is on the one hand truth of science, I rather speak of correctness. So according to the rules of maths, 1+1=2 is correct, one might also say it is true.
You can go through all kind of sciences and do this: According to X, Y ist correct/true.
Now some people seem to go and use this scheme for the bible and God Himself: According to {add any great new findings here}, the bible is correct/true/God exists...
Basically this means measuring God or the bible by other, worldly standards. Correctness is nothing I do look for in the bible. What I look for is God, a relation with and to Him.
Correctness or truth is a strange attribute here. Is love correct? Can you proof your love? To God, to anybody? Wouldn't looking for a proof proof, that our own love is not true?
If I look for a proof whether my partner loves me, do I not mistrust? And is trust not a part of love?
That is basically what I mean. I always feel a bit stung when I read about "proof for the correctness of the bible/existence of God". If I prove something to be true, I subdue it to some kind of rule I base the proof on.
*Basically this means measuring God or the bible by other, worldly standards. Correctness is nothing I do look for in the bible. What I look for is God, a relation with and to Him.*
This makes Perfect Sense...its about a relationship...total belief, trust an acceptance of His word...Man seems ta wana pick apart the word of GOD an be correct...an in so doin he is missing the point intirely...Hello !!!...This is GOD...Are you there ? I jus want a relationship with You...Hello !!!...I'm waiting....xo
One also wonders how much can be said without preventing free will. God has promised to come into peoples lives that search for him.
I like this verse describing the end times.......
2 Peter 3
The Day of the Lord
1Dear friends, this is now my second letter to you. I have written both of them as reminders to stimulate you to wholesome thinking. 2I want you to recall the words spoken in the past by the holy prophets and the command given by our Lord and Savior through your apostles.
3First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4They will say, �Where is this �coming� he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.� 5But they deliberately forget that long ago by God�s word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
8But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
10But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.a
11Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming.b That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness.
14So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. 15Bear in mind that our Lord�s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
17Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position. 18But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.
I think God has left us Scientific proof of the Christs ressurection in the form of The Shroud.
1st Law of Thermodynamics: Law of Conservation of Energy: "Energy can neither be created nor destroyed" (there's multiple forms of this statement). If the energy of the universe cannot be created nor destroyed, then it must, of necessity, be infinitely old (a knock-down, drag-out, infinitely old).
2nd Law of Thermodynamics: Entropy: There's many ways to put it, but energy only decays - it doesn't become more orderly overall (there are many, many forms of this statement). Which, as there is still some remaining order to the energy of the universe, requires that the energy of the universe must, of necessity, NOT be infinitely old (AKA, there must be some finite age for the energy of the universe).
The two are in direct contradiction in what they require about the age of the energy of the universe. If you limit yourself to science, you've got a problem.
Proverbs 30:5-6 "Every word of God is pure: He is a shield unto them that PUT THEIR TRUST in Him. Add thou not unto His words, lest He reprove thee, and thou be found a liar."
Either you believe that every word of God is pure or you don't! It is man, in his infinite wisdom, which bends,distorts,changes His truth to "fit"into their own way of thinking.
Joshua 10:13-14 "And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Yasher(Jasher)? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.(14)And there was no day like that before it or after it, that the Lord hearkened unto the voice of a man: for the Lord fought for Israel." Now either you believe the word of God or you don't. And there have always been scoffers and their always will be. Read Proverbs 2:1-12 slowly, and make it personal to your mind and heart. Pray to the Spirit of God, Who cannot lie to you and will reveal the answers to you in which you seek. Stop listening to man, and start listening to God alone. Apostle Paul gave instuction to Timothy which many more "christians" need to heed.ll Timothy2:15-16 "STUDY to show THYSELF APPROVED UNTO God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, RIGHTLY dividing the Word of Truth. But shun profane and VAIN babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness." ......just some spiritual food for thought! God Bless.
Correct the fool in his follishness lest you be drawn down in his foolish ways.?
But doesn't it also teach us,
Do not correct the fool in his foolishness lest you be drawn down in his foolish ways.?
Am I right?
The reason that I used those two verse is because they clearly contradict each other, and they also follow each other in Proverbs. Thus it shows a clear example that scripture is to be interpreted not only literally, but also symbolically. The balance between the two... Well. Myself I tend to rely on revelation from God, my intimacy with Him,scripture, and the wisdom from those around me of greater maturity in the faith.
However if I have a revelation about the truth of something, yet you have not and then I try to force that on you, this seems to me to be rather "religious", to use the meaning laden term.
Back to the topic of this thread.
By trying to prove God's existance via the Bible provides a limiting scope of the Truth.
Yeah sure it can, myself I am amazed at the God and his magnificent nature, the more I come to know Him the more he amazes me. If people have had it put on their heart to prove God's existance via the Bible, then may they be blessed in the endeavour. This of course does not provide a limitation for their relationship with God.
i just want to point out the those 2 veres that you used from proverbs are not contradictory. they are talking about 2 different circumstances where if you respond or dont respond to these people you can/will be dragged down. some people just want a response for arguments sake and dont really want to learn anything, where as other people truely want to learn or need to be corrected.
It was some time ago that I postd that comment, I remember at the time it felt important to show that literal interpretation of the Bible with a narrow view, isn't very helpful. The verses that I choose were proverbs, and I don't believe that we have much specific cultural context to help give light to their meaning.
If taken literally either one or the other is true if on this approach - the reason I choose those two verses was because they followed each other and it clear that there is no contradiction, and that when the rubber hits the road the Spirit will guide us with His light. I guess this is just one of the many benefits of intimacy with God.
If God is the ultimate truth, then he would presumably make things in accordance with that. So, if God is real then it's not as though he would try to disprove himself by what he makes. He made this place, set up the rules (moral, physical, etc). The laws of nature, physics, and all the others are fascinating, and most of the great scientists during great advances centuries ago viewed science through the lens of "God exists, and he wants us to learn about him by discovering the things he made for us." By assuming God, they were able to explore creation in a meaningful way, giving us great advances in medicine and technology.
More to the one of the original points though, trusting God doesn't require proof, but it requires that things don't disprove. Since it's usually one or the other, and since people have been trying to debase and disprove the Bible/God since almost forever, I'd say their failure is enough to give God some serious credit.
Also, if God isn't true and discoverable, can we really know him? If we cannot really know him, can we really love him? Can you even trust someone you cannot know? Of course not; baseless love and false love are not love at all. Love is nothing without truth, and truth benefits nobody if it is not known.
Since God is truth at his core, he must be discoverable if we are to seek him. As in, "if you seek me you will find me if you seek me with all your heart" and "draw near to him and he will draw near to you" etc.
blind faith is laziness. We often have to trust God with things we don't understand or know, but we know GOD and that's where the faith and trust come in. Don't get wrapped up in situations; you know the person. God must be knowable to be trustworthy or expect our trust, and he knows it. That's why he calls us to get to know him in order that we can learn to trust him.
Back to truth. God is truth, and people can try all they want to disprove him but in the end, lies will disintegrate in the presence of truth. In the end, there won't be a soul left standing in his presence as we all (hardcore atheists too) kneel before him and confess that he is LORD (translation of YHWH, translation of "I am that I am" which means "I exist and am unchanging; I am Truth"). I heard it once said very wisely: "Truth never fears a challenge." It always wins, in the end. There is no escaping it, not hiding it. Truth always utterly annihilates lies, in the end. The best thing we can do is help ourselves out by believing the truth now so we don't have to experience the lies being stripped away from our souls and leaving us with nothing.
