I'm not sure if they will accept this topic. I know it's controversial. I don't know if I want to write a whole bunch and then have them delete it. But I guess I'll start with who I am.
I am a Christian and was born again at the age of 14. I believe the Bible is the inspired word of God. If something doesn't drive with the Bible I throw it out. I'm not a Bible scholar but I've studied the Bible and I have attended various Bible classes. I was involved in a discipleship training school for 2 years.
When I was in college I gave a speech about abortion. I was opposed to abortion but truthfully wasn't quite sure why. I concluded it was because all the other Christians that I knew were opposed to it as well.
62 years old now and only recently have my views changed. Let me tell you why.
I've been a Christian long enough to know that Satan is a master at dividing Christians and causing pain on both sides of the aisle. The one only has to look in the Gospels. Jesus warned the disciples that things would not go well for them because they were followers of Christ. He listed things that would happen to them. I believe he was talking about the Inquisition. No offense if you are Catholic but around the year 2000 the pope publicly apologized for the crimes of the Catholic Church. This was on the front page of the newspaper. But the last thing that Christ said was that they would "think that they were doing God a favor." I have read Foxe's book of Martyrs. It details all of the horrible things done to the early christians. These are first-hand accounts.
My point in bringing this up is that many times Christians believe sincerely one thing but they can be sincerely wrong. Just like with abortion.
I believe that the controversy started because the Catholic Church (again I don't have anything against Catholics) determine that life begins at conception. This is where the trouble starts. People believe the church more than they believe the Bible. This is a problem
Let me explain. Let's go back to Genesis. After God created Adam the Bible says that He "breathed the breath of Life" into Adam.
This is when I believe the spirit enters into the body. Not at conception. Stay with me there's more.
Why do I believe this? Well not only because of what I just quoted. And by the way I don't put down where in the Bible that is. I'm no better than Jesus I will only say "it is written"you have to go find it yourself it's in there though!
I have studied near-death experiences since I was about 17 years old. And one thing that I've learned almost universally, it is reported that when a person dies they leave their body and can look down on their body. This happens when they take their last breath.
This is where the holy Spirit comes in. It was at this time that the holy Spirit showed me that the opposite is true as well. In other words when we die the moment that we take our last breath is when our spirit will leave our body. And when we are born, when we take our first breath, is when the spirit enters the body.
When I was a young kid before I was born again and received the spirit of god, I used to marvel then when the doctor spanked a baby on the behind that it would cry. It was a mystery that I kept hidden in the back of my mind. And it was at this time that the holy Spirit bought all of this to rememberance.
None of this disagrees with the Bible. In fact it is supported by the Bible.
Keep in mind that Satan perpetrates his evil by deception. He is known as The Great deceiver. Can he deceive Christians? Well of course he can. The Christians who burned other Christians at the stake honestly thought that they were "doing God a favor.." Christians have been misguided many many times. And if you don't believe that then you still need to mature in your walk with God.
Satan is alive and well on planet Earth... Yeah that's the name of a book written by Tim Lahey. It's one of the first books I ever read after I became a Christian. We need to know our enemy. We need to expose his lies. And this is a big one. Think of all of the fighting and killing and chaos this issue has caused. And I don't take it lightly. If I wasn't sure about this I wouldn't even spend the time to do this but I told God when I had the chance I would share what he showed me.
I know that I'm not the person to change people's minds. God does that I'm just here to give you the facts. God bless
Its obvious to me that your comment was thought about over an extended period of time. So I feel that your origional post is more researched than my reply.
However I feel that the conclusion that you arived at is based on the assumption that all breathing is done the same. But the truth is that there is more than one way to breathe.
-Ticks don’t breathe in the traditional sense, as their respiration occurs through small openings in their bodies called spiracles. Therefore, ticks are able to survive without air for extended periods of time as long as they have access to a host for nourishment.-
Moonlight you stated a trustworthy scientific fact and observation when you say “life begins at conception”. Very good so far.
But in a seemingly paradoxical twist you posted the following on my anti-abortion thread in the Christian Morals Forum dated 29 Nov, 2024 03:48 PM
MOONLIGHT QUOTE:
“Abortion is a Personal choice like mx y other things I'm Life.
God is the judge of what people do it doesn't do in life.
Men don't cannot Birth a baby.
It's easy to decide for Someone else oftentimes when it's not ones own business. Just saying!!
I'm not for abortion !
Sometimes it's the Dads who don't want any kids or Any more kids. And this sometimes are married Couples.
God Judges All and also forgives Sin! END MOONLIGHT QUOTE
This time around I will quote moonlight again but in following section l will quote Moonlight as (ML) and myself as (LD). I will also insert my remarks after each of Moonlight’s separate comments
ML SAYS: “Abortion is a Personal choice like mx y other things I'm Life.
LD: Moonlight, I think you intended to say: “Abortion is a personal choice like many other things in life”. Moonlight, if this is what you intended then you just repeated a 👉pro-abortion👈 talking point ⁉️
ML SAYS: “God is the judge of what people do it doesn't do in life”
LD: Again, this is another 👉pro-abortion👈 talking point designed to blunt criticism from pro-life groups‼️
ML SAYS: “Men don't cannot Birth a baby”.
LD: Once again, another 👉pro-abortion👈 talking point designed to silence pro-life men‼️
ML SAYS: “It's easy to decide for Someone else oftentimes when it's not ones own business. Just saying!!”
LD: And AGAIN, another 👉pro-abortion👈 talking point designed to make pro-lifers look like abusive busybodies‼️
ML SAYS: I'm not for abortion !
LD: You most certainly do not come across as assuring or convincing astute especially after you just asserted so many pro-abortion arguments.
ML SAYS: “Sometimes it's the Dads who don't want any kids or Any more kids. And this sometimes are married Couples”
LD: I agree, sadly it is the father of the unborn child who callously or ignorantly wants to kill his own son or daughter‼️‼️
ML SAYS: “God Judges All and also forgives Sin!”
DL: I agree but that doesn’t mean that people (both MEN and women) can’t speak up for the unborn nor does it mean they are not obligated to speak up against abortion.
Moonlight, I’m repeating your post because you often copy and paste things you don’t seem to fully understand. Nevertheless, I only hope you do not agree with the pro-abortion delusions that you quoted
Norwegiainodak, what happened⁉️⁉️ Did you decide to “abort” the discussion you beget⁉️😇
I would have wanted to chat with you more about your radical turn from protecting people to your rather striking conversion in now supporting the destruction of some of them.
In the Bible, John leaped for joy inside his mother's womb at the approach of Mary.
As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy. (Luke 1:44)
More, Genesis 25:22-26
The babies jostled each other within her, and she said, “Why is this happening to me?” So she went to inquire of the Lord. The Lord said to her, “Two nations are in your womb, and two peoples from within you will be separated; one people will be stronger than the other, and the older will serve the younger.” When the time came for her to give birth, there were twin boys in her womb. The first to come out was red, and his whole body was like a hairy garment; so they named him Esau. After this, his brother came out, with his hand grasping Esau’s heel; so he was named Jacob. Isaac was sixty years old when Rebekah gave birth to them.
You should read about Onan whom God struck dead Genesis 38:8-10. Onan would be a saint considering today's standards. I must disagree with you Nordic man.
Many advocates for abortion would love your argument.
Many want infanticide. They would love your argument that life begins at first breath, and that life does not begin until a baby is slapped upon the butt and takes his or her first breath. That way, they can legally murder a child after birth. How sick?!! After a child is fully delivered ...to murder the child, because life does not begin till first breath. And that first breath does not occur until one is slapped upon the butt, and that the spirit does not enter the body until first breath, so no sin committed in infanticide, because no soul is there yet. Legalized murder to first breath. Look the child over. If you don't like the child after you inspect it, if is okay to kill the child, because the spirit is not in the child yet. Yes, the abortionists will like to hear that one. But it goes against the scripture. John leaped for joy inside his mother's womb at the approach of Mary. God formed us in our mother's womb, and you would have people kill us before we breath and call it okay because we didn't breathe yet, so didn't have the spirit of life. Fish breathe in water. Fish have gills, so breathe differently. We are to love our neighbor as ourselves. You cannot be a closer neighbor than an unborn baby to its mother. Some will love your argument. God could have made us all like Adam -- out of dust. He could have made us all as Eve -- out of someone else's rib. He could have made us all as Jesus -- born of a virgin. But God chose to make us male and female to in this way involve us in HIS PLAN for family. Your idea that it is okay to play God with human life because someone is not breathing yet is just infanticide and murder. It is the murder of the most innocent of human beings -- an unborn child and now a just born child. Yep! Planned Parenthood would want you to write the legislation regarding life. You are their new champion.
A man is to work the field and plant in it. Onan would be a saint by today's standards. (Genesis 38:8-10) Onan worked the field, but did not plant in it, so God struck him dead. Onan did not want a crop of kids, so God struck him dead. Onan would be a saint by today's standards because he did not plant his seed, but spilled it. Now days people destroy the whole crop. What farmer works the field, then plants in it, then destroys the crop? It is not following the intentions of God. God is seeking godly offspring (Malachi 2:15) and people are cheapening the purpose of our existence. We exist because God wants family, then we destroy the most innocent of God's family members. By the way, God says that blood is life. "For the life of a creature is in the blood." (Leviticus 17:11) "The life of every creature is its blood." (Leviticus 17:14)
Moreover, Manasseh also shed so much innocent blood that he filled Jerusalem from end to end. (2 Kings 21:16)
They shed innocent blood, the blood of their sons and daughters. (Psalm 106:38)
“Come along with us; let’s lie in wait for innocent blood, let’s ambush some harmless soul." (Proverbs 1:11)
The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born. (Revelation 12:4) What ungodliness?!!
Do this so that innocent blood will not be shed in your land, which the Lord your God is giving you as your inheritance. (Deuteronomy 19:10)
I am appalled by such a notion that life begins at first breath so that it is okay to destroy a child before then. It is not valuing life. Women should value their pregnancies and people should value life. You might like an old Beatle's album cover depicting hacked apart baby dolls and smiling Beatles. The album "The Beatle's Yesterday and Today." Lots of smiling faces from what you say.
