How would you minister to a Christian that has been burned by the church so much that they hate it? They don't like the way Truth is twisted and feel like they will never get properly fed. They have been ignored and rejected in so many churches and they are tired of the backs stabbing hypocrites.
The hardest lesson I had to learn, and it was taught to me while I was in the Church Council, is that nothing happens beyond God�s Will.
Do not get me started on this, because I have fought this very very much. I thought that everyone could be brought back, it was just a matter of the right approach, the right bible verse, the right prayer, the right thing the say or do...
And I proved to be wrong time after time after time.
I had to learn in the most painful way, the God is in charge. We do not minister nothing and nobody. HE does. And I am not talking about abilities, I am talking about timing.
God walks the most impossible pathes with his children. And we have absolutely no idea what his purpose with a person is. In church particulary, we have the habit in thinking that this is the place where people belong. It is the "end" of a long seeking and the "beginning" of a new life in CHrist.
This is NOT true. God has no intention to bring people to the church. He wants to be in one�s life.
I have experienced too many times that people who are rebelious, who are mad because of the way their live is destroyed, who are disapointed because they cannot find whtat they are looking for, etc etc, are not seldom kept in that situation until they accept that God is in charge.
This is so difficult to accept and even worse to teach. People tend to believe that God is always trying to heal us. And that he makes the things right and nice and beautiful... But there is also another side. Rebelious as we are, we do not listen to Him unless we are in a position that we cannot do anything else.
Regarding the people, you describe Thunder. I have no steps to be taken to propose to you. The only thing that worked with me, when I got these people on my path, is to hold their hand, sit next to them and be SILENT. I do not want to sound patronizing but leave God do the work... we cannot always help and heal and convert. But we can always be there.
Thunder, you and Abedjau made some good points in your replies. I lean toward Abedjau's point of view. I actually started attending church regularly in life in my early forties as an adult. I was naive in my thinking in how Christians in the church are to behave, and initially... especially after getting involved in ministry, how wrong I was. I thought Christians in the church were on the up and up humble and all giving, all supporting, but I found out, that was not true. It was a rude awakening for me.
I knew Christ had done something in my life, and I had the desire to change and give back to Him in praise, worship, and service, however, I was about ready to hang it up, because of my perceptions of how Christians were to behave with one another. After reading the bible really thouroughly and with understanding, I felt ready to jump in, gung-ho and fellowship with other like minded Christians that all had the same purpose and goal in serving our God. But I found out instead, that many were wrapped with a lot of pride, with underlying motives as well.
Then I had to really pray and get into the word, and ultimately made the decision to remain, and trust God in what I saw with my eyes, and waiting on His direction to guide me in my actions. I began to watch people a little more closely after prior praying to God to give me more wisdom and discernment, and bringing the right Chrstians before me to help me grow in my walk. And He did. I the point with me is even though I felt a little decieved, I didn't give up (and I could have). I made a decision to continue with the Word, and not be defeated by the actions/lack of action by others in the body of Christ.
Everyone is not able to do that. I think for someone who has been totally turned off my the church and "Christians", it's probably going to take him seeing a "our true light shine" as Abedjau says. Not by anything we say, but in our actions as true followers of Christ through His word, and he seeing how we "love" one another.
There is a very good book "When Bad Christians Happen to Good People" (Where We Have Failed Each Other And How To Reverse The Damage) by Dave Burchett. It is very good. There is one chapter called "Our Walkin' Ain't Matchin' Our Talkin'.... That says a lot...... ~ GraceMae
When Jesus was talking about temples and the church, HE was talking about the individual meaning you. When we accepted Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour we invite HIM in our temple which is our hearts and soul. Instead of hating the church, do your best to make a change in the church. Church dont make the man, Jesus and man make the church. Its like life. No matter how bad something gets, trust God to give you an idea to turn things around. Besides, Jesus didnt teach hate, HE taught love. So either you let the devil keep you out of church or pray to the Lord to find you a good church home. Or pray to make a stand or change in you and the church sitiuation.
Don't invite this person to the church. Invite him to God. Help them to find Jesus, it's all what matters. I know many such people and I don't invite them to church. But I spend time with them, answer their questions, trying to show God's love to show them better life in Jesus. Church is not a building. We are the church.
I believe God has made it very plain in his word that sectarian divisions among believers is heresy and is sin. Believers are told not to fellowship with the unsaved as found in man's religious institutions.
2 Corinthians 6:14 �Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
God has stated there is only one faith and never does it say the faith of your choice.
Ephesians 4:5 �One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Since there is only one faith then the other faiths would have to be the philosophies of man wouldn't they? Only man can make his own versions of what he thinks the truth is if he doesn't take God literally at his word; doesn't that make sense?
Here is what God says in regards to the philosophies of man.
Colossians 2:8 �Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
And this next verse is what Paul says about traditional holy-days. Does mean we have to believe what Paul wrote, but non the less its in there to read. So why do so many ignore God and his will?
Galatians 4:9 �But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
10 �Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
11 �I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.
Its interesting to note, that not once in God's word do we find any holy days, not even the sabbath since all of that was nailed to the cross.
Colossians 2:14 �Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 �And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16 ��Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 �Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Ephesians 2:15 �Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
I believe Paul gave us fair warning about heresies.
Galatians 4:9 �But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
10 �Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
11 �I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.
Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18 �For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
Many believers saved and unsaved alike believe if something is popular as is sectarianism than it has to be of God.
Luke 16:15 �And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
But God also realizes that there has to be heresies and this next verse tells us why.
1 Corinthians 11:19 �For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
But I don't believe God wants those of the household of faith to be involved with man's religions.
2 Corinthians 6:16 �And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17 �Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
18 �And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
That is what the word says, but I wonder how many really believe it what he has said?
Matthew 15:8 �This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 �But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
I know this topic is old, but I just want to put in my two cents. My mother is one of those people that feels uncomfortable in church because she was badly burned before. My parents split when I was three-years-old and she started seeing this man who practically lived with us. He had his own house and everything, but he was at our place most of the time.
I remember when I was little, my mom would go to church and I would always be in Sunday school, but all of a sudden she stopped going out of the blue and hasn't been back since. When I was older, I finally asked her why she stopped going, and she told me it was because the minister's wife took her aside after the service and told her that she was no longer welcome in their church because she was living with a man in sin. Either this woman thought that she was without sin at all (so I guess it would be alright if she randomly started chucking stones at people) or that having physical relations with a man out of wedlock is so heinous a crime in the eyes of God that you would no longer be welcomed into His house. What makes that sin worse than others, I have no idea. Because of this, my mother has always struggled with her faith.
She is very happy that I regularly attend church and have embraced the Lord and His teachings so she still has faith in our Father, but she is afraid of going to church in the fear that she will be condemned. I attend church because it helps me understand God better and I feel it makes me a better person. Then again I go to a very small and intimate church and it seems that my church is more interested in helping out the community rather than making money. My church is by no means perfect, but it's the best I've gone to.
I don't really have advice for Christians who don't attend services. I feel as long as they love God and use His teachings in their life, then they know the true love of Christ and what His blood has given us and it will lead them to their salvation. I don't think God keeps tabs on our church attendance and He won't let people in to His kingdom unless we've reached the quota. If we love and embrace Christ with our hearts and souls, that's what really matters.
Well, there it is....my two cents. No refunds. :nahnah:
I believe most Christians see "church" as an event...
I go to church.
We go to church.
Come to church with me.
To church,the church,my church,his church,your church,pastor so and so's church.
Church,church,church.
When will the christians in America learn ,that it is not the church people need to be coming or going to,they need to be coming and going to Yeshua/Jesus.
John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
It is supposed to be the body of Christ when we meet together,not the church.
The Christians have been bamboozled and brainwashed not to be able to think for themselves.
There are at least 25-27 verses of Scripture which tell us to One another,One another.
The body has been highjacked by proud and arrogant men,and degraded from being a Kingdom of kings and priests to being a country club full of fans instead of active participants.
Instead of carrying one anothers burdens and healing the wounded,we shoot the wounded and add to the peoples burdens.
If Yeshua/Jesus were here physically,would he not be standing at the door knocking and waiting.
Waiting for just one person to be letting Him back into where He should be,the Head of the body,and not the pastors taking that postion.
There should be some Spirit filled believers where this person is,whom the Holy Spirit will use to let Him talk with them without being attacked or belittled.
Sharing their own struggles within the body and this life.
Being there when they say they will be there.
Keeping their word,and not letting anything that is said to be going beyond them and the Lord.
Praying for Him,and asking if He has any needs.
Letting Yeshua through the peole ministering to this man.
Remind himof Yeshua's Love for him through the cross.
Reminding him,that he is a Saint,a beloved,adopted son of the Most High God.
When opportunity arises,remind him with the Word about loving his brothers and forgiving those that have hurt him.
1John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.
1John 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
1John 4:21 And this commandment have we from him, That he ho loveth God love his brother also.
