Okay, I have a question about a particular "fight" in the bible.
Some translations say fight, some say resisting, some say blocked or detained, either way, you get the point..lol
Anyway...
An angel came to Daniel and said,
" I have come in answer to your prayer. But for twenty-one days the spirit prince of the kingdom of Persia blocked my way. Then Michael, one of the archangels, came to help me, and I left him there with the spirit prince of the kingdom of Persia..."
What does he mean the prince of Persia blocked him? Why would the prince of Persia have that kind of power to stop the progress of an angel?
Furthermore....
If we don't wrestle against flesh and blood, obviously the spirits don't either, so...what does it mean when it says they were fighting?
At the end of that convo the angel said,
�Do you know why I have come? Soon I must return to fight against the spirit prince of the kingdom of Persia, and after that the spirit prince of the kingdom of Greece will come. Meanwhile, I will tell you what is written in the Book of Truth. (No one helps me against these spirit princes except Michael, your spirit prince."
I'm sure I know the answer, but it must be going over my head. Please explain! Thanks in advance for your excellent answers.
Hmm, I'm not sure what others have said about it, I think the prince of persia, or the spirit of the prince of Persia was an angel (a bad one), in the bible they sometimes call spirits, or angels princes. Michael your prince, prince of the power of the air, etc.
I don't think he was an actual human prince.
And he was fighting with him, so he was detained for a time.
Just what I've heard some scripture on, and conversations on, still it'd be cool to hear what people say, HGG.
I studied this a few years ago. The prince of persia was a demonic spirit. i hope this helps you as the Angel of God had to fight all those days just to get the message to daniel.
Very interesting topic and I appreciate you asking. :)
Here is what I've found:
Prince of Persia
**Daniel 10:10-21 [10] And, behold, an hand touched me, which set me upon my knees and upon the palms of my hands. [11] And he said unto me, O Daniel, a man greatly beloved, understand the words that I speak unto thee, and stand upright: for unto thee am I now sent. And when he had spoken this word unto me, I stood trembling. [12] Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words. [13] But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia. [14] Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days. [15] And when he had spoken such words unto me, I set my face toward the ground, and I became dumb. [16] And, behold, one like the similitude of the sons of men touched my lips: then I opened my mouth, and spake, and said unto him that stood before me, O my lord, by the vision my sorrows are turned upon me, and I have retained no strength. [17] For how can the servant of this my lord talk with this my lord? for as for me, straightway there remained no strength in me, neither is there breath left in me. [18] Then there came again and touched me one like the appearance of a man, and he strengthened me, [19] And said, O man greatly beloved, fear not: peace be unto thee, be strong, yea, be strong. And when he had spoken unto me, I was strengthened, and said, Let my lord speak; for thou hast strengthened me. [20] Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia shall come. [21] But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.
There are four angels in this passage:
1.The messenger angel who came to bring the interpretation of Daniel's vision (Daniel 10:10-12 [10] And, behold, an hand touched me, which set me upon my knees and upon the palms of my hands. [11] And he said unto me, O Daniel, a man greatly beloved, understand the words that I speak unto thee, and stand upright: for unto thee am I now sent. And when he had spoken this word unto me, I stood trembling. [12] Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words.) He is not named in the passage.
2.The prince of Persia. This is evidently a fallen angel working under the direction of Satan who operates as the "god of this world" (2 Corinthians 4:4In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them). The prince of Persia withstood the messenger angel for twenty-one days (Daniel 10:13But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.) and hindered him from coming to Daniel. By this we know that the prince of Persia is of the evil one. This should not be surprising since Paul warned us, "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places" (Ephesians 6:12). Principalities refer to the rule of princes. The prince of Persia was one of these principalities.
3.Michael, one of the chief princes. Michael comes to the rescue of the messenger angel and relieves him for a time so that he might bring the interpretation of the vision (Daniel 10:13-14 [13] But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia. [14] Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days). So, who is Michael? In Jude 1:9Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.), Michael is called "the archangel" and he personally contends with the devil. In speaking to Daniel, the messenger angel calls him, "Michael your prince." The personal pronoun "your" is plural (something that is not distinguished in modern English versions). Therefore, Daniel was not being told that Michael was his own personal angel. Rather, Michael was the angel of Daniel's people. He was the prince of Israel. In Daniel 12:1And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.), Michael is called "the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people." It only makes sense that God would take His most powerful angel and put him in charge of his chosen people.
4.The prince of Grecia. His coming is prophesied by the messenger angel: "Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia shall come." The prince of Grecia (or Greece) would be another of Satan's mighty princes and he will direct the ways of Greece when it becomes the main world empire.
This passage, therefore, is not about guardian angels. Mostly, it is about angels who have such great power that they are called princes. From their element in the spiritual world, they direct the affairs of nations. The news we read on a daily basis is not just the result of the actions of men. It also reflects the spiritual battles that are going on in the spirit world. The princes of this world are often led by their corresponding princes in the spirit world. These principalities, in turn, are all under the authority of "the prince of the power of the air" (Ephesians 6:12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.)--by Satan himself. We do not and cannot understand all that is going on in the spiritual realm, but it is important for us to understand that the battles we face have another aspect to them; an aspect that is real though it is unseen. Our battle truly is a spiritual one.**
I know some will think it's hogwash, but I don't. :)
(for those who don't know some of us know Browneyedgirl by her real name, hehehehe, it starts with "T")
But you missed the greatest thing that Micheal did so far, in history.
Revelation 12:7-9
7. And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8. And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Michael, lead his group of angels won a war, and cast down Satan and the rebel angels from heaven. They fell lost their first home, and now a great many of them live on earth. They became the "Powers and Principalities"
in Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].
The KJV is faithful in rendering the correct word "Principalities" here, most modern translations will use words like "Rulers", or "Authorities". Three modern translations correctly retain it. The ASV, ESV and NKJV.
Among the fallen angels which are commonly called demons or devils, there are indeed a number of ones that are Princes. Satan himself is called "prince of the power of the air" in Eph 2:2
There are a great many believers who think angels cannot take a form just like the human form in physical reality, and spirits (non-phisical) only.
They however miss what scripture says in chapter 32 of Genesis, and chapter 12 of the Book of Hosea.
Jacob (Israel) wrestled with an angelic being, that Jacob calls a man named "Peniel or Penuel or Phanuel" (depending on vowel placement in the hebrew) He had his hip permanently injured in this contest with this physical angel.
Also after Jesus went up, while the disciple where standing there in awe, looking at the cloud where He had gone..
The angels, described as "Men dressed in white garments" suddenly materialized and standing before the disciples, they told them: �Men of Galilee, why are you standing here looking into the sky? Jesus, whom you saw taken up from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you saw him go.�
This was to remind them that they were to go await the Lord's promise of the Holy Spirit, as Jesus said to them.
Notice the absence of wings, on the Men clothed in white, and compare them with the angels that Issiah saw in the temple.
All the above plays out in Acts 1:9-11
I can cite other passages that show their manifestation of a physical nature, but 3 witnesses should be enough to testify.
I totally agree with you PK..100%. Angels can definitely look like a man, take the form of a man. But in taking the form of a man, does that include the ability to procreate or reproduce? Are they just in man-form, or do they have all the innerds too? Haha! (sorry, I am from Kentucky)
I have thoughts rambling around in my head, but... ya know.
BTW, friends I've had all my life really do call me T. Haha! People seem to think I'm trying to guard my real name (not PK), but to me, T is a real name. :)
Now this is getting interesting. Where's PK? Thanks for the post ,HGG. Great Topic. I wonder why some of the fallen angels are reserved in everlasting chains under darkness and some are free to reek havoc on the earth?
Yes, chevy, exactly! So many questions! Do the fallen angels still have any kind of free will? No doubt, God can make them do what He wants..He's sovereign, but like in the original story, the messenger angel had to get backup to fight the bad prince of Persia, so...what are we supposed to learn from that? SO many questions!! Haha! :)
"I totally agree with you PK..100%. Angels can definitely look like a man, take the form of a man. But in taking the form of a man, does that include the ability to procreate or reproduce? Are they just in man-form, or do they have all the innerds too? Haha! (sorry, I am from Kentucky)"
There is not enough scripture to build doctrine.
For doctrine you need at least three verses/passages that clearly show a given subject being taught.
Having said that, I will say this.
About reproduction:
We get a single passage Gen 6:1-8 touching on it.
We get these ten foot tall giants popping up in scripture post-flood.
As for innards, it could be argued angel appear to eat.
Hebrews 13:2
"Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares"
