Author Thread: The Five points in a Nutshell..........
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The Five points in a Nutshell..........
Posted : 17 Apr, 2011 10:50 PM

Salvation is not finally in the hands of man to determine. His choices are crucial, but they are not the final, decisive power in bringing him to glory, God�s sovereign grace is.



1. God elects, chooses, before the foundation of the world whom he will save and whom he will pass by and leave to unbelief and sin and rebellion. He does this unconditionally, not on the basis of foreseen faith that humans produce by a supposed power of ultimate self-determination (= �free will�).



Acts 13:48, �When the gentiles heard this they were glad and glorified the word of God. And as many as were for ordained to eternal life believed.�



Romans 11:7, �Israel failed to obtain what is sought. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened.�



John 6:37, �All that the Father gives to me will come to me; and him who comes to me I will not cast out.� John 17:6, �I have manifested my name to them whom thou gavest me out of the world; thine they were, and thou gavest them to me.� (John 6:44, 65).



2. The Atonement applies to the elect in a unique, particular way, although the death of Christ is sufficient to propitiate the sins of the whole world. The death of Christ effectually accomplished the salvation for all God�s people.



Eph. 5:25, �Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her.�



Heb. 10:14, �By a single offering he perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.�



John 10:15, �I lay down my life for the sheep.�



Rom. 8:32, �He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how shall he not with him freely give us all things?�



3. Because of the Fall, humans are incapable of any saving good apart from the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit. We are helpless and dead in sin. We have a mindset that �cannot submit to God without divine enabling.



Rom. 8:7-8, �The mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, it does not submit to God�s law; indeed it cannot. But you are not in the flesh; you are in the Spirit if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you.�



Eph. 2:1,5, �You were dead through your trespasses and sins.�



4. God�s call to salvation is effectual, and, hence His grace cannot be ultimately thwarted by human resistance. God�s regenerating call can overcome all human resistance.



Acts 16:14, �The Lord opened her heart to give heed to what was said by Paul.�



John 6:65, �This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted to him by my Father.� (Matt. 16:17; Luke 10:21)



1 Cor. 1:23-24, �We preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to gentiles, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ, the power of God and the wisdom of God.�



5. Those whom God calls and regenerates He also keeps, so that they do not totally and finally fall away from faith and grace.



Rom. 8:30, �Those whom he predestined, he also called and those whom he called he also justified and those whom he justified he also glorified.�



John 10:27-29, �My sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me; and I give them eternal life and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand.�



Phil. 1:6, �I am sure that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Christ Jesus.� (1 Cor. 1:8).



1 Thess. 5:23, �May the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly, and may your spirit and soul and body be kept sound and blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. He who calls you is faithful and he will do it.�



Conclusion



Romans 11:36, �From him, through him, and to him are all things, to him be glory forever amen!�

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The Five points in a Nutshell..........
Posted : 18 Apr, 2011 06:32 AM

James,

Thank you for sharing your version of the Gospel. I can't help but notice it is different from what Jesus and the apostles taught.

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Posted : 18 Apr, 2011 07:02 AM

YES Satan got someone to look to left and the right and ran into the ditch and completely departed from faith.



James did you ever notice the warning about hardening your heart.



By the way James Do you know it is by faith, not by grace one is born again, and your doctrine is not of faith.



Corrupted seed, corrupted harvest= spiritual death.



That is why when the holy ghost went into a Calvinist church and preached Jesus many where born again.



2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.



The unrenewed mind is Satan's playground.

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Posted : 18 Apr, 2011 08:33 AM

James wrote - "God�s call to salvation is effectual, and, hence His grace cannot be ultimately thwarted by human resistance. God�s regenerating call can overcome all human resistance."

Really? "All human resistance"?

Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers [did], so [do] ye. -Acts 7:51

Maybe the Holy Ghost wasn't trying hard enough? Maybe the Holy Ghost isn't strong enough to breech man's depravity of mind? Or maybe... just maybe... it was their "choice" to resist the Holy Ghost as the above verse tells us.

When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with [their] teeth. -Acts 7:54

They were even convicted by the Holy Spirit, yet still they chose to refuse to submit. They chose to go after Stephen instead. But whatever... Calvin is right and can make Scripture say whatever is needed to support the view that man can't resist God or the conviction of the Holy Spirit.

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Posted : 18 Apr, 2011 09:01 AM

Saved,

Although you are 100% correct, I am getting a 'feel' for Calvinism and am pretty sure how they view such a passage. It is a pretty easy trick, all you have to do is view anyone who resists as "non-elect" ie: people God did Not pick before the creation of the world. However, this is what puzzles me : By unconditionally picking some for heaven, inversely the others are unconditionally picked for hell. I see this as blasphemy, a attack on the very nature of God. Calvinists seemed to be hardened to this important result of their doctrine. When ever this is brought up, they go into the following mantra : "All deserve to go to hell, God in His Gracious Love has choosen to save some". And in their mind it fixes everything, end of discussion, they have no desire to go past that one sentence. In my opinion a sign of a brainwashed mind. They have all the cue verses and sayings like programmed robots. No independent thinking, no being led into all truth by the Holy Spirit.

I feel they miss out on so much, I feel sad for them.

They are like one trick ponies with no "feel"

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Posted : 18 Apr, 2011 09:25 AM

Two,

If that's how the Calvinist would argue Acts 7:51, they would need to change their doctrine of "irresistible grace", wouldn't you think? Or does God mock or tempt man and dangle things in front of him to make a point.. ie, send the Holy Spirit to those who are damned before birth knowing they don't have a chance in Heaven, so He can say 'See? Told ya they would refuse. I created them that way'.

I do agree that almost every reply is the same thing over and over. I didn't know they had a Bible written especially for their beliefs. It reminds me of the JW's. If you ask a question that they have no real answer for, they look to the back of their Bible where there is a list of answers they can give.

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Posted : 18 Apr, 2011 01:08 PM

Who says they are in christ, not the word

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Posted : 18 Apr, 2011 01:22 PM

One gave his only begooten sins for the world.



Where does it say for the elect in John 3:16?

He gave his life for the whole world. even if many refuse him he still died so that they would get a chance.

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Posted : 18 Apr, 2011 01:24 PM

71 said:



James wrote - "God�s call to salvation is effectual, and, hence His grace cannot be ultimately thwarted by human resistance. God�s regenerating call can overcome all human resistance."



Really? "All human resistance"?



James replies:



Yes, ALL human resistance. every single person that the Holy Spirit makes alive will be a new creature with a new heart. even if it means possible death, the person will STILL desire to repent and trust in Jesus, and they will.







Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers [did], so [do] ye. -Acts 7:51



Maybe the Holy Ghost wasn't trying hard enough? Maybe the Holy Ghost isn't strong enough to breech man's depravity of mind? Or maybe... just maybe... it was their "choice" to resist the Holy Ghost as the above verse tells us.



James replies:



No. read the verse again..... "UN-circumcised in Heart"

they "ALWAYS RESIST". This is describing fallen mankind.

















When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with [their] teeth. -Acts 7:54



They were even convicted by the Holy Spirit, yet still they chose to refuse to submit. They chose to go after Stephen instead. But whatever... Calvin is right and can make Scripture say whatever is needed to support the view that man can't resist God or the conviction of the Holy Spirit.





James replies:



We are not talking about Calvin. We are talking about your interpretation of this verse. And I am not getting on your case on this one either. My ESV says, "when they heard these things they were enraged..." So, maybe the translation you are using did not translate this verse very well. I would check out some other translations and see what they say.



In Christ,



James

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Posted : 18 Apr, 2011 01:25 PM

Twosparrows said:



ames,



Thank you for sharing your version of the Gospel. I can't help but notice it is different from what Jesus and the apostles taught.









James replies:



It is NOT the gospel. The gospel is the good news about Jesus, and how a person can be right with God, because of what Jesus has done.



In Christ,



James

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Posted : 18 Apr, 2011 01:26 PM

Saved,

"So He can say 'See? Told ya they would refuse. I created them that way'."

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Yeap, probably under the heading : 'Sovereignty of God'

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