A Calvinist will use this verse to say since Jesus has sheep before He lays down His life, the existence of these sheep prove some were marked out before creation to be saved.
The Arminian will respond that since God has foreknowledge, He knows ahead of time who will believe and picks these to be His sheep.
Let us consider the truth of the matter:
God exists outside time, therefore God does Not have to pick His sheep ahead of time. Or look ahead to see who will choose to be His sheep. God simply knows. We see things as a movie, God looks at creation to the end of this age as a picture.
This is how God knows who His sheep are, who is elect, who is saved.
And Calvinists and Arminians argue this verse and many others, saying : Oh these are the ones God picked ahead of time, and Oh these are the ones God knew ahead of time would believe.
Good post, twosparrows! A scripture came to mind when I read it. Isaiah 40:28~~~~ Hast thou not known? Hast thou not heard, that the Everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of HIS understanding. Our God is AN AWESOME GOD! Christians who think he's little don't KNOW Him.
2. Arminians not only do not have even one verse of Scripture that says that God merely pretended to "choose" someone because He saw they would have faith, but that Romans 9 CONTRADICTS THAT ENTIRE IDEA. God says, "NOT because of anything they had done, but ONLY so that God's choice might stand..."
3. Saying that God is not in time STILL leaves you with God choosing Whom He would save. You implied that God might have just "saw" who would have faith. Notice you are STILL presupposing free will.
Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Just keep reading Scripture......... you will keep seeing "Ordained", "Chosen", "Destined","elect", "predestined".
1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
James posted: 3. Saying that God is not in time STILL leaves you with God choosing Whom He would save. You implied that God might have just "saw" who would have faith. Notice you are STILL presupposing free will.
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God doesn't "saw" or foresee, God sees. What did God say His name is? "I Am that I Am"
Simply put, you take freewill, choice, choosen, predestination, put them in a blender and what you have is the truth.
The answer is faith, the father is the author of faith, and the father of the children of faith, the enemy of reformed theology and their lie.There is no Gospel of limited atonement based on reasoning truth told of itself the ransom was for all that believe, the father by faith sees all of mankind saved. Truth will not change for any theology.
Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Rom 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
17 � (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara�s womb:
20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 � Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
1 � Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
The answer is faith, the father is the author of faith, and the father of the children of faith, the enemy of reformed theology and their lie.There is no Gospel of limited atonement based on reasoning truth told of itself the ransom was for all that believe, the father by faith sees all of mankind saved. Truth will not change for any theology.
Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Rom 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
17 � (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara�s womb:
20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 � Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
1 � Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
