Thread: The Interpretation of Bible Truth is Not Democratic
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The Interpretation of Bible Truth is Not Democratic
Posted : 9 Apr, 2011 12:49 PM
I have noticed a number of people posting basically saying 'I can post more Bible verses that support my view than you can to support your view; so I am right and you are wrong'
I have been speechless concerning this line of thought until now.
All the Bible is true, every verse. One cannot add up verses that support a supposed truth and the verses that oppose a supposed truth to conclude which is the correct truth. Bible truth is not determined by a democracy of verses or adherents to a particular view!
If there are verses that support a supposed truth, that are in conflict with another supposed truth supported by other verses, of this you can be certain :
Either both supposed truths are in error or they are both correct and the supposed conflict is in error.
I wish people would stop trying to prove their point, and instead search out the truth together.
The Interpretation of Bible Truth is Not Democratic
Posted : 9 Apr, 2011 12:58 PM
I noticed you didn't post any scriptures to back your point.
Acts 17 vs 11 : These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so.
The Interpretation of Bible Truth is Not Democratic
Posted : 9 Apr, 2011 02:01 PM
Hilltop, I would liketo let you know that I am so very much appreciate you.:applause:
You have been on this forum for some time now, and this is the first time you have ever that I know about, come out and engaged in a discussion or debate as boldly as you have been expressing your views of scripture in the past three days. And for this cause, I am so very happy and appreciate you.That means a lot, because it shows that whether you are views or right or wrong, you feel free to express your thoughts just as others even when they are right and wrong. When at first you would only post a few scriptures and not say much, but now you are opening up for debate... And that's a good thing. Praise God for your increased of confidence:dancingp:
The Interpretation of Bible Truth is Not Democratic
Posted : 9 Apr, 2011 02:10 PM
Twosparrows said:
have noticed a number of people posting basically saying 'I can post more Bible verses that support my view than you can to support your view; so I am right and you are wrong'
James replies:
Not true. I can show MANY CLEAR verses that support the Doctrines of Grace, and Arminians can show a handful of verses that CONTRADICT THE MANY CLEAR VERSES. Not only that, the arminian interpretation MAKES the other verses contradict each other.
Also, one thing that is popular is making false inferences from a verse.
How many people on here have told me that John 3:16 says that everyone has the ABILITY to believe in Jesus?
They have actually pointed to the word "whosoever" and tell me that means "everyone has the ability"!
Twosparrows continues:
All the Bible is true, every verse. One cannot add up verses that support a supposed truth and the verses that oppose a supposed truth to conclude which is the correct truth. Bible truth is not determined by a democracy of verses or adherents to a particular view!
James replies:
Many times I have posted several verses that say the same thing, and everyone on here rejects the very idea. I show verses that SAY that fallen mans will is ENLSLAVED, and some of them are Jesus saying it, and then the next post some one says something that presupposes free will in fallen man!!!
You SHOULD take in ALL what the bible has to say on any given subject and make sure you don't contradict the CLEAR verses.
But look who I am writing this to! YOU STILL THINK ANYONE CAN BELIEVE IN JESUS!
Jesus said "No man can come to me unless" and you STILL think anyone can come.
I agree with your title that the INTERPRETATION of the Bible is not to be decided by pure democracy of Christians.
Remember this sentence?
"Our interpretation of Scripture should not be ruled by church history, but it should be guided by church history."
Twosparrows said:
Bible truth is not determined by a democracy of verses
James replies:
My question to you is HOW MANY TIMES does God have to say something before you consider it to be true!!!
And, yes, to find the truth about some deeper things in Scripture, one has to look at the TOTAL statements in Scripture pertaining to that subject.
Are you saying that if we have thirty verses of Scripture, that you don't look at them all together to decide upon a doctrinal belief?
That is what Christians do in order to find the truth.
In Christ,
James
If there are verses that support a supposed truth, that are in conflict with another supposed truth supported by other verses, of this you can be certain :
Either both supposed truths are in error or they are both correct and the supposed conflict is in error.
I wish people would stop trying to prove their point, and instead search out the truth together.
The Interpretation of Bible Truth is Not Democratic
Posted : 9 Apr, 2011 02:22 PM
James asked: Are you saying that if we have thirty verses of Scripture, that you don't look at them all together to decide upon a doctrinal belief? That is what Christians do in order to find the truth.
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If there are 30 verses, you look at them all, every single one of them, nothing gets thrown out. Calvinism and Arminianism do Not embrace every single verse. Therefore as I have repeatedly said; the truthis else where.
Btw, the term 'clear' is very subjective, if you don't agree to that, I would say you see no other view other than your own.
The Interpretation of Bible Truth is Not Democratic
Posted : 9 Apr, 2011 03:05 PM
James not today or on any day have you supported scripture you have and do always oppose scripture truth, you oppose the very fact that thy word is truth because you treat it as an opinion.
The bible from cover to cover is based on man having the responsibility to hear what the word of God says and to believe what he hears from the word of God and the act accordingly, and this truth is relative to whatever spiritual state man is in at the time of hearing the word of God.
Now let us look at one of the verse you continually try to build upon the false doctrine of Calvinism:
32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father�s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?
43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
48 I am that bread of life.
.
James we all know you like to promote a couple verses here as in your doctrine, but you have no means to call your verses only as true.
This context speaks of Jesus again as the bread of life for the world, but you deny that truth, but we have it covered James for in context, notice verse 35, it is he that cometh to me and he that believeth on me. before your scripture Jesus spoke of he that cometh to me, very interesting.
verse thirty six answers another question you refuse to acknowledge, the ones that believe not.
verse 40 tells us who the father has given him, he that believeth on him.
verse 45 all are taught of God but it is those that hear and have been taught that cometh to me.
verse 47 again it is confirmed again him that believeth,
Who is drawn James, it is he that cometh to the lord and believeth on him
How many times James does Jesus say he that believeth on me.
I fully understand why reformed theology claims man can not believe, but my faith is in the one that says he that believeth.
Now James two witnesses establishes a bible truth let us look at The sweetest verse in the bible:
Jn 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
You can put your definition to world all you want for we are back to he that believeth, hath life.
We can list at least another ten scriptures that say the same thing. I am going to list another scripture you say is not true.
1st Tim 4:9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.
4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
10:12 � For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is
written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Here again you will find it is hearing, believing and then doing, buy the way this is the apostles doctrine how one can be saved
James in Eph 2:8 faith is not the gift, faith is described in just this
The Interpretation of Bible Truth is Not Democratic
Posted : 9 Apr, 2011 03:44 PM
:ROFL: 2sapprow, I went to the debate site dissension.org, but it redirected me to this so-called Bible discussion and question section on CDFF.
No, the real Bible discussion and question site is at www.forums.crosswalk.com where people who are spiritually informed know what they are talking about and what questions to ask to be discussed. Not many from this Bible so-called Bible discussion and question section would last there.
The Interpretation of Bible Truth is Not Democratic
Posted : 9 Apr, 2011 06:47 PM
James wrote - "Also, one thing that is popular is making false inferences from a verse. How many people on here have told me that John 3:16 says that everyone has the ABILITY to believe in Jesus? They have actually pointed to the word "whosoever" and tell me that means "everyone has the ability"!"
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. -John 3:15-16
Whosoever = whoever = whatever person or persons : no matter who. According to you James, whosoever means 'elect'. In your doctrine the passage would read, 'That the elect who believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God so loved the 'elect', that He gave His only begotten Son, that the elect that believe in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Yeah, false inferences from a verse do abound. You redefine the word "whosoever" and "world" to force it into your doctrine. Yesterday you redefined Saviour to force it into your doctrine, as it was the only way you could explain 1 Timothy 4:10, without having to admit that God is the Saviour of all men, as He says. Blasphemy. Again, false inferences from a verse do abound.
James wrote - "My question to you is HOW MANY TIMES does God have to say something before you consider it to be true!!!"
The Pot Calling The Kettle Black [to say something about someone else which is actually true of you yourself]. How many times does God have to say He is the Saviour of all men? How many times does He have to say that He gave Himself as a ransom for all? How many time does He need to say that He is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world? How many deaths does it take for you to believe that Jesus tasted death for every man? Etc, etc, etc. You have to take a whole slew of verses and change their simple meanings to force it into your doctrine.
