In Kat's thread---- Which is more important---- I noticed Ryan had a Long list of things he doesn't tell people (because according to him, they aren't true). My question is What DO you tell those who are lost?
Ryan is right! Running around saying "Jesus loves you" to everyone is NOT in Scripture! It is also NOT in Christian history until you arrive in modern America.
What Do we say?
We must have the full message. . . 'deliver the whole counsel of God'. . . . It starts with the Law. The Law of God ... the demands of a righteous God, the wrath of God. That is the way to bring men and women to conviction; not by modifying the Truth.... We must confront them with the fact that they are men and that they are fallible men, that they are dying men, that they are sinful men, and that they will all have to stand before God at the Bar of Eternal Judgement....And then we must present to them the full-orbed doctrine of the Grace of God in Salvation in Jesus Christ. We must show that no man is saved 'by the deeds of the Law', by his own goodness or righteousness, or church membership or anything else, but solely, utterly, entirely by the free gift of God in Jesus Christ His Son. . . . We must preach the full-orbed doctrine leaving nothing out-conviction of sin, the reality of Judgement and Hell, free grace, justification, sanctification, glorification. We must also show that there is a world view in the Bible ... that here alone you can understand history-past history, present history, future history. Let us show this great world view, and God's Eternal purpose.... Let us at the same time be very careful that we are giving it to the whole man ... the gospel is not only for a man's heart, that you start with his head and present Truth to it ... Let us show that it is a great message given by God which we in turn pass on to the mind, to the heart, to the will. There is ever this danger of leaving out some part or other of man's personality... Let us be certain that we address the whole man-his mind, his emotions and his will.
D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones The Weapons of our Warfare pg. 21-22
And here is another Quote on the Gospe,l this time from a Puritan.
The gospel of Christ in general is this: It is the good tidings that God has revealed concerning Christ. More largely it is this: As all mankind was lost in Adam and became the children of wrath, put under the sentence of death, God, though He left His fallen angels and has reserved them in the chains of eternal darkness, yet He has thought upon the children of men and has provided a way of atonement to reconcile them to Himself again...Namely, the second person of the Trinity takes man's nature upon Himself, and becomes the Head of a second covenant, standing charged with sin. He answers for it by suffering what the law and divine justice required, and by making satisfaction by keeping the law perfectly, which satisfaction and righteousness He tenders up to the Father as a sweet savor of rest for the souls that are given to Him...And now this mediation of Christ is, by the appointment of the Father, preached to the children of men, of whatever nation or rank, freely offering this atonement unto sinners for atonement, requiring them to believe in Him and, upon believing, promising not only a discharge of all their former sins, but that they shall not enter into condemnation, that none of their sins or unworthiness shall ever hinder the peace of God with them, but that they shall through Him be received into the number of those who shall have the image of God again to be renewed unto them, and they they shall be kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation.
The lost is guaranteed salvation by simply believing in the lord Jesus Christ it is that simple.
Those that are new creations in christ have this message:
13 For whether we be beside ourselves, it is to God: or whether we be sober, it is for your cause.
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
16 � Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ�s stead, be ye reconciled to God.
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
1 � We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)
This message is for all that are spiritually dead, lost or sinners.
The message is come unto God for you are already reconciled by the lord Jesus.
The gospel of eternal life in the family of God is to all that are lost.
New testament example:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37 � Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Ac 4:4 Howbeit many of them which heard the word believed; and the number of the men was about five thousand.
The lost is guaranteed salvation by simply believing in the lord Jesus Christ it is that simple.
Those that are new creations in christ have this message:
13 For whether we be beside ourselves, it is to God: or whether we be sober, it is for your cause.
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
16 � Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ�s stead, be ye reconciled to God.
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
1 � We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)
This message is for all that are spiritually dead, lost or sinners.
The message is come unto God for you are already reconciled by the lord Jesus.
The gospel of eternal life in the family of God is to all that are lost.
New testament example:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37 � Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Ac 4:4 Howbeit many of them which heard the word believed; and the number of the men was about five thousand.
Lets look at the list Ryan shared ~ It affects how evangelism is even done. Do I tell everyone God loves you and He's holding out his hand if you'll just grab it, you'll be saved? Do I tell them He's knocking on the door of their hearts and they just need to open the door? Do I tell them all they need to do is pray this simple prayer after me and God will save them? Do I tell them if they are afraid to pray, then I will pray the prayer for them and if they agree, just squeeze my hand? No I do none of that because none of that saves. Do I tell everyone Jesus is begging for them to come to Him? No because He is not.
I believe Ryan is Referring to How some People Present the Gospel�People have had a discussion about this afor�There is very Important Doctrine to Follow in the Bible�which Calvinists Dismiss and Substitute for what is Referred to as the Doctrine of the Protestant Reformation which I will list at the end�
Each Situation and Person is Unique�When Witnessing to Someone who has No Clue about God or Jesus � 1 � Simple way is the Roman Road�Outlined in the Bible�I Personaly Don�t Tell someone�I Show and Lead them to and in the Word in the Scripture�the Word of GOD�The Doctrine of Faith�Not what is called by Calvinists the � Doctrine of Grace��
Rom 5:8~ � But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.��How will they Learn and Know that God does Love them and what Jesus did for them if you don�t Show and Lead them to and in the Word ???�or�
Rom 3:23~ � For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;��How will they Learn and Know they are a Sinner if you don�t Show and Lead them in and to the Word ?�or�
Rom 6:23~ � For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.��How will they Learn about the Gift and Know the Wages of Sin is Death if you don�t Show and Lead them in and to the Word ?�or�
Rom 10:9~ � That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved � How will they Learn and Know to Confess Lord Jesus and Believe in Him and be Saved if you don�t Show and Lead them in and to the Word ? or�
Rom 10:10 ~ � For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. � �How will they Learn and Know they Must Repent, Confess, if you don�t Show and Lead them in and to the Word ?�or�
Rom 10:13~ � For [ whosoever ] shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.� How will they Learn and Know this unless you Show and Lead them in and to the Word ?�
Shared ~ The doctrines of grace, as awful as they may seem to many here are central to the LOST WORLD, you are talking about.
*** Yes ! Grace is Very Important�Without GOD�s Grace�none of us would be here right now�and here are the Scriptura I said I would post...
1-�Sola Scriptura,� or [ Scripture Alone: ] This affirms the Biblical doctrine that the Bible alone is the sole authority for all matters of faith and practice. Scripture and Scripture alone is the standard by which all teachings and doctrines of the church must be measured. As Martin Luther so eloquently stated when asked to recant on his teachings, "Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason - I do not accept the authority of the popes and councils, for they have contradicted each other - my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and I will not recant anything for to go against conscience is neither right nor safe. God help me. Amen."
2��Sola Gratia,� [ Salvation by Grace Alone: ] This affirms the Biblical doctrine that salvation is by God�s grace alone and that we are rescued from His wrath by His grace alone. God�s grace in Christ is not merely necessary, but is the sole efficient cause of salvation. This grace is the supernatural work of the Holy Spirit that brings us to Christ by releasing us from our bondage to sin and raising us from spiritual death to spiritual life.
3��Sola Fide,� [ Salvation by Faith Alone: ] This affirms the Biblical doctrine that justification is by grace alone through faith alone because of Christ alone. It is by faith in Christ that His righteousness is imputed to us as the only possible satisfaction of God�s perfect justice.
4��Solus Christus,� [ In Christ Alone: ] This affirms the Biblical doctrine that salvation is found in Christ alone and that His sinless life and substitutionary atonement alone are sufficient for our justification and reconciliation to God the Father. The gospel has not been preached if Christ�s substitutionary work is not declared, and if faith in Christ and His work is not solicited.
5��Soli Deo Gloria,� [ For the Glory of God Alone: ] This affirms the Biblical doctrine that salvation is of God and has been accomplished by God for His glory alone. It affirms that as Christians we must glorify Him always, and must live our entire lives before the face of God, under the authority of God, and for His glory alone.
These five important and fundamental doctrines are the reason for the Protestant Reformation. They are at the heart of where the Roman Catholic Church went wrong in its doctrine, and why the Protestant Reformation was necessary to return churches throughout the world to correct doctrine and biblical teaching. They are just as important today in evaluating a church and its teachings as they were then. In many ways, much of Protestant Christianity needs to be challenged to return to these fundamental doctrines of the faith, much like the reformers challenged the Roman Catholic Church to do in the sixteenth century.
James shared ~ D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones The Weapons of our Warfare pg. 21-22 and And here is another Quote on the Gospel, this time from a Puritan. Jeremiah Burroughs
James wrote - "Ryan is right! Running around saying "Jesus loves you" to everyone is NOT in Scripture! It is also NOT in Christian history until you arrive in modern America. What Do we say? We must have the full message. . . 'deliver the whole counsel of God'. . . . "
No, I imagine you wouldn't share with anyone that Jesus loves them, because they just might be the person that Jesus doesn't love and didn't die for. You don't have the FULL message and you don't deliver the whole counsel of God. God is love. But according to your belief, God is love only toward those who are lucky enough to be determined 'elect'. You can't share verses like Romans 5:8, because you believe that is for the already saved 'elect' and not for all sinners. Do you even share ANY verses that show the love of God when you are sharing the Gospel with an unbeliever? I don't think you can, because your view limits God's love. His love is not a universal love, meaning He loves all mankind, but instead a limited love, meaning He only loves those He will choose as elect. So you don't have a verse to share with un-believers that expresses the love of God, even though Scripture tells us "God is love".
James wrote - "[snip]...freely offering this atonement unto sinners for atonement...[snip]"
Hardly. You can't freely offer the atonement Christ offers to sinners because you limit God's atonement, thereby not making it freely offered to all you speak to, but a limited offer to a select amount. No Romans 5:18 in your message because the free gift that comes "upon all men unto justification of life" is not available or offered to "all men", but instead a select amount. Such a pity.
There is a difference in showing the Love of God and saying "Jesus Loves You."
Yes going up to someone randomly and saying, "Jesus loves you" is probably going to give you a lot of weird looks, especially among those who have never even heard of Jesus. However, you take someone who's been hurt time and time again by people who called themselves Christians, and you start ministering to them by meeting their needs, they'll see the Love of God coming through you. And sometimes, this is the only way others will be willing to listen to you about Christ.
And when they are ready to listen, then you tell about their sin, what God says about it, and what Christ did so they could escape the punishment of Hell.
After reading both your posts on this thread I see a pattern starting to emerge. It is a pattern used by the Puritians just about exclusively for any individual, any situation. The pattern uses fear as a motivator, first condemn, then to offer a solution. Granted this is a good way of doing it for the self righteous, however others are self condemned and need to hear Jesus Loves them.
Grace is the unmerited favor of God
James, I have often wondered if it could be considered selfish to accept Jesus just to avoid wrath, you see your way is not without its shortcomings.
