Wow, it seems from this article that John Calvin was a prophet, warning those who would prevert his writings into a new doctrine of the Gospel. Pretty amazing!
Thank you James, a very illuminating article from Mr. Calvin himself, it is unfortunate that a multitude of his followers do not take it to heart.
oh, he had people killed, my appologies. I guess there was never any recorded history of people dying by his hands...
He HAD servatus put to death, 34 women whom he claimed were witches...and wheather they were or not...Jesus doesnt kill people...
Calvin had many many people killed. Especially when they dissagreed with him.
And no. The subject was "fake Christians according to CALVIN" Who promoted killing people when tey dissagreed with him, and a eskewed version of the gospel. Of which he captialised on by killing people.
oh, he had people killed, my appologies. I guess there was never any recorded history of people dying by his hands...
James replies:
Whenever you have a Christian leader who has, or had great influence on the Christian faith, you will have liars, and slanderers who do their best to convince others to look down on them. Jesus was called a drunkard and a glutton by those who wanted us to ignore Him. Two of the most maligned theologians in church history are Augustine, and Calvin. There are plenty of lies told about both of them. You just happened to find some about Calvin.
RK said:
He HAD servatus put to death, 34 women whom he claimed were witches...and wheather they were or not...Jesus doesnt kill people...
James replies:
Servetus was a heretic, and a bonehead. Servetus was already in prison in another country, and the Roman Catholic church convicted him and gave him the death penalty, but Servetus escaped before they could execute him. Servetus, then for some unknown reason went straight to Geneva, and men in that town saw him and he was arrested there. You need to realize that John Calvin was a pastor. He had ZERO power of any kind, and could not even vote in that city. The town COUNCIL convicted Servetus and servetus COULD have been let go, if he would have recanted, but he refused and so the sentence was death by fire. Calvin begged the COUNCIL to lessen the penalty and the council refused. Calvin spent time in the cell with Servetus and prayed for him and with him. There were plenty of offenses that could get a person the death penalty back then, and witchcraft was one of them.
RK said:
Calvin had many many people killed. Especially when they dissagreed with him.
James replies:
This is a lie. You found one of the websites that hate Calvin, and they lie about him and you are just repeating it.
I think you should skip the websites and read actual Christian history of the Reformation. You will learn a lot more that way.
RK said:
And no. The subject was "fake Christians according to CALVIN" Who promoted killing people when tey dissagreed with him, and a eskewed version of the gospel. Of which he captialised on by killing people.
James replies:
Yeah, that is all lies. If.......you ever buckle down and study the Reformation, you will find out for yourself.
James, in honesty you have to admit, after the Synod of Dort the followers of Calvin killed at least one and severely persecuted many who disagreed with their doctrine.
Calvinism does not have a unblemished beginning nor even one to be proud of.
As for fake Christians; it is easier to fake it when there are 5 points to intellectually follow - hmmm... perhaps that is why Jesus didn't give us a five point doctrine. Unless of course you are foolish enough to say Calvin possessed more understanding than Jesus.
James, in honesty you have to admit, after the Synod of Dort the followers of Calvin killed at least one and severely persecuted many who disagreed with their doctrine.
James replies:
They were not "followers of Calvin"! They were protestant Christians. And YES, there was all kinds of wars, and death penalty executions, on ALL sides. The idea of tolerance CAME OUT OF THE REFORMATION. Demanding that they should have discovered this sooner is childish. The entire REASON the Puritans and Pilgrims came to America was so they could live and worship God according to what they saw in Scripture. If you study the Reformation you will find Kings, both Catholic and Protestant who put to death Christians for publicly teaching things they disagreed with. There were LOTS of wars between countries, and that is whole other subject.
Twosparrows said:
Calvinism does not have a unblemished beginning nor even one to be proud of.
James replies:
I disagree completely. America is the result of Calvinism.
There are historians that say that if you don't understand Calvinism you can't understand America.
"Unblemished beginning"? No one is perfect, so I wonder what you mean by that? Do you mean that they should not have put people to death for publicly teaching heresy? Well, as a modern American I say that was extreme. But let me ask you this twosparrows............ Those people went to one extreme of putting people to death for it. And now we modern DO NOTHING to anyone who teaches heresy. THAT is the other extreme! Now, WHO do you think will fare better on Judgment day? The ones who cared enough about the truth of God, so that they went overboard? Or us moderns WHO DO NOTHING?
You and I think Christians were extreme about that back then.
But let me tell you if you told them what YOU think, they would think very bad things about you.
Twosparrows continues:
As for fake Christians; it is easier to fake it when there are 5 points to intellectually follow
James replies:
That is ridiculous. I think it is easier to fake it in a society where there is no persecution, and one is expected to be a Christian.
Twosparrows said:
- hmmm... perhaps that is why Jesus didn't give us a five point doctrine. Unless of course you are foolish enough to say Calvin possessed more understanding than Jesus.
James replies:
And here is where a Reformed Christian gets exasperated!
The ARMINIANS BROUGHT FIVE POINTS!
There WAS NO "five points" until THEY WROTE UP FIVE POINTS!
John Calvin wrote the best handbook ever for the Christian faith.
It is called "the Institutes of the Christian religion".
There is no such thing as the five points.
Before the Arminians came I was just a Christian, or a protestant according to Catholics.
And as to your last statement, I refuse to deal with it. It obviously does not matter HOW MANY TIMES I say I don't follow Calvin, or worship Calvin, or whatever, you will just keep saying it. RK just did in this thread, and that is probably the TENTH person who has done this. What else is new.
Just like, no matter what the subject is, some smart aleck on this group will turn it around and ignore what ever subject I posted on.
I could post on Forgiveness tomorrow, and some blockhead on this group would say:
"I don't see how you could forgive anyone because
you are a Calvinist..."
Good Grief! Lord please give me patience and endurance!
James in case you haven't heard, instead of being hard headed, listen to what others are Calvinism, the tulip, reformed theology, are not of any value to them, because their priority is Jesus!!
You obviously are ignorant as to the details of the Synod of Dort. This is when and where the five points were brought up and those who were in agreement with the writings if Calvin first began to kill and persecute fellow Protestants for disagreeing with the writings of Calvin. To say that there were no Protestants before Calvinism is just plain ludicrous.
James, you are right about one thing. If I lived back then; my very life would be in danger from those who think killing me would be doing God a favor. These are the very people you consider your mentors and elevate practically to Sainthood!
