C. The parents that know God (love) and their authority over all the power of the enemy and bind that spirit driving their son, and then follow the wisdom of God as to any action they are to take as earthly parents.
To be fair you'd have to say you had 10 sons all addicted to heroin and decide to take away choice for only one.
However in reality the parents would take away choice and give it back repeatedly until the son can make his own wise choices
I see God doing the same thing in the Bible and my life.
To be fair, doing this with 10 sons, you'd probably only have 1 or 2 that would get off the heroin, however that's how it works; God repeatedly intervenes and we choose.
There have been times in my life where I didn't want to have a choice and told God as much, however rarely is that prayer answered. It seems God is getting me ready for eternity, imagine that! ;-)
Every one of the five points of 'tulip' share a common denominator: "Choice" :
total depravity - man is to dead to choose God even when asked by God
James replies:
If you read Genesis starting at the beginning........
What happened was the God chose Adam and Eve to be the
Federal head of the Human race. They were OUR perfect representatives. They had a perfectly free will.
They CHOSE to disobey God.
Twosparrows continues:
unconditional election - man has no choice in his election to be saved
James replies:
Romans 9
14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses,
�I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.�
16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God�s mercy.
Twosparrows said:
limited atonement - man cannot choose to receive atonement for sin
James replies:
Calvinists say the Christ's death was all powerful but it was limited to the elect, and Arminians say it was intended for everyone, but it only made it POSSIBLE for God to pardon sinners, on the condition that they believe. For the Calvinist, the atonement "is like a narrow bridge that goes all the way across the stream; for the Arminian it is like a great wide bridge that goes only half-way across."
John 10: 11,14-18: I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for THE SHEEP...I am the good shepherd; I KNOW MY OWN and my own know me, as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for THE SHEEP. And I have OTHER SHEEP, that are not of this fold; I MUST BRING THEM ALSO, and they WILL heed my voice.......THIS CHARGE I HAVE RECEIVED FROM MY FATHER."
Twosparrows said:
irresistible grace - man cannot choose to reject God
James replies:
Ezekiel 36:26,27 A NEW HEART I will give you, and a NEW SPIRIT I will put within you; and I will take out of your flesh the heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and CAUSE you to walk in my statutes and be careful to observe my ordinances. (compare Ezekiel 11:19)
Acts 13:48: And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of God; and as many as were ORDAINED to eternal life BELIEVED.
Acts 16:14: One who heard us was a woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple goods, who was a worshipper of God. THE LORD OPENED HER HEART TO GIVE HEED to what was said by Paul.
Twosparrows said:
perseverance of the saints - man cannot choose to change his mind.
James replies:
John 10:27-30: "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me; and I give them ETERNAL LIFE, and THEY SHALL NEVER PERISH, and NO ONE SHALL SNATCH THEM OUT OF MY HAND. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Fathers' hand. I and the Father are one."
1 Corinthians 1:7-9: ...so that you are not lacking in any spiritual
gift, as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ; who
will SUSTAIN YOU TO THE END, GUILTLESS in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. GOD IS FAITHFUL, by whom you were called into the fellowship of his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.
Twosparrows said:
Of course when I read the Bible I see it is all about "Choice"
James replies:
True. Two things that repeated all throughout Scripture, and we should accept and remember them.
1.God is always sovereign.
2.Man is always responsible.
Twosparrows said:
How can you have love when there is no "Choice"?
James replies:
If you have a puppy, and you care for it, you will not allow it to run out into the street. If you think about it, you can come up with twenty other examples.
Twosparrows continues:
Adam and Eve had a "Choice" to not believe God or not.
James replies:
Yes, we agree. They had a perfectly free will, and they CHOSE to disobey God.
Twosparrows continues:
The Old and New Testaments are filled with people who made choices.
James replies:
Yes, and we all make choices everyday. Total depravity, or total inability is only talking about the ability to make a choice to repent and trust in Jesus. In other words The Fall, effected every part of a mans being, or the "totality" of his being, that includes his will.
Twosparrows continues:
Then 1500 years later some followers of Calvin decide we have no choice?
James replies:
No. What happened was that some Christians in the early church were studying the Bible and coming to conclusions about mankind, and The Fall and how it effected us.
If you truly wish to put the blame on one individual, it would not be John Calvin, it would be Augustine. He wrote about all this and lived a thousand years before Calvin.
Everyone else just agreed with Augustine. Luther was an Augustinian monk. You can find all sorts of Early church fathers agreeing on this. That is why the Reformation is called the Reformation. The Roman Catholic church deformed the faith, and became an apostate body around 600Ad. The Reformation was literally a REaffirming of what the Early church believed.
Twosparrows continues:
Just stop and think for a mintue, how many verses of the Bible addresses our Choice. Why would Choice be so important.
James replies:
The gospel is a command. We are to tell everyone to repent and trust in Jesus. So, a person making that choice is the only way they can be saved.
Also, the law of God, the Ten Commandments, if they are disobeyed have earthly consequences. So, saved or not, if a man chooses to disobey God, he will pay for it, and most likely, he will pay for it during his life on Earth.
if you have the notion, please check out monergism.com
James wrote - "If you read Genesis starting at the beginning........ What happened was the God chose Adam and Eve to be the Federal head of the Human race. They were OUR perfect representatives. They had a perfectly free will. They CHOSE to disobey God. ....Total depravity, or total inability is only talking about the ability to make a choice to repent and trust in Jesus. In other words The Fall, effected every part of a mans being, or the "totality" of his being, that includes his will."
I'm having trouble finding in Genesis, or anywhere in God's Word, where God took mans free will from him as a result of his disobedience in the Garden.
In other words all those that where water baptized before Jesus death and resurrection, did not repent but because you said they where not able to repent, or trust
